Are You Playing Offense or Defense?

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman this week Paul DS Dana White and Laura Xander talk about the lessons they'll take from 2021 and what they're hoping to accomplish in 2022 Paul thinks he's found an alternative sales channel that will lessen his dependency on Google Laura who built Jimmy Bean wool on e-commerce is planning a renewed emphasis on brick and mortar retail and Dana White is rebuilding the team that will help her pursue her remarkable opportunities with franchising and the military plus all three talk about how they feel showing up at work in a brand new car even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will let owners know they are not alone in facing challenges same thing with our daily newsletter the 21 hats Morning Report which highlights the most important news of the day for business owners and which you can subscribe to at 21h hats.com where you can also find transcripts of our podcast episodes and lots of other articles and interviews and please stick around at the end of the podcast when Steve koll will explain in his marketing minute how to Target a decision maker with your B2B marketing joining me this week on the podcast are regulars Paul Downs who is CEO of Paul Downs cabinet makers which makes custom conference tables outside of Philadelphia Dana White who is CEO of Pary Boyd a chain of hair salons based in Detroit and Laura Xander who is CEO of Jimmy beans wool a digital yarn store based in Reno Nevada and mateline Tosh a yarn supplier based in Fort Worth Texas the episode is titled are you playing offense or defense welcome Paul Dana and Laura it's great to have you here uh we somehow seem to have made it all the way into December um I'm not sure how that happened but I thought it might be a good time to take a little bit of a look back and kind of ask what did we learn this year maybe I'll start with you Paul you've been running your business the longest um but is there anything you know today that you didn't know a year ago well business is considerably easier when the government shovels money at you you you might not want to count on that uh to happen too many more times no I'm I just got a check for the ertc yesterday 142,000 bucks and that's the employee retention tax credit yes and the gravy train will be over as of January 1st I guess and I'll have to go back to scrambling for money what else did I learn um not much well you have been doing this a while I have been doing it a while was there anything you tried this year did you do anything different well okay here's here's something um we just wrapped up our GSA contract it's finally been received and it's official and that was the third time in the last 15 years I've tried to do it tell us what that is GSA contract is a purchase agreement that one enters into with the federal government in which you offer a set of items at a negotiated price that is better than you're offering to anybody else and this allows government buyers to purchase those items with with very minimal bureaucracy the alternative being if you're selling to the government you often have to uh the buyer has to get several bids for the service and you may lose out at that point so we've tried to do this a number of times and it's a complicated application process and this time I hired Consultants as opposed to the other two times when I tried to do it myself that's an important lesson yes and I would say that the lesson is a hire a consultant who's familiar with with the exact kind of service you're offering or or product because there's a number of strange things about furniture and the way Furniture is sold that General Consultants aren't going to understand but our Consultants went through like Champs and I know that having followed the questions that were asked and the answers they gave that there's no chance we would have been able to have a successful interaction with the government examiners so there you go I don't want to get too deep in the weeds but can you give us a hint what what's weird about selling furniture why is that tricky the practice in Furniture is for furniture companies to publish what are called list prices on everything that they sell and the actual selling price can be considerably lower because of discounts that are offered in the process and the discounts are done in a way that it's hard to figure out why it's done that way in other words instead of just saying hey here's an item it's 100 bucks we're going to sell it to you for 50 bucks 50% discount it's often expressed is we're going to sell it as a 50% discount and then another 10% on that and then another 6% on that and then maybe 3% back in your pocket as a kickback so the actual selling price can be like 35% of what the list price is and what everybody ends up doing is publishing cataloges with enormously infl ated list prices and then negotiating gigantic discounts back with the government and so that it's like well what's the catalog even for that's very counter to our normal practice of just telling people what we expect them to pay without any hidden discounts and so we had to get familiar with how everybody else does it and make sure that everything we said kind of worked within that system are you playing the same game everybody else plays now yep absolutely cuz that's the way it goes wow it's a beautiful thing well at the end of the day the government is getting a good deal it just doesn't it just looks very strange if you're trying to work your way through their process Laura how about you learned anything this year this has been a big year uh a couple things one on the business side of things I've learned that I don't need to be involved in all the details and things are actually they run much smoother when I'm not involved in all the details and when I just give I've learned kind of I'm still learning but I'm much better at describing what we want done not how we want it done um and letting the team figure out the how um and being okay with the fact that they may not do it the way that I would have done it but they're getting really good results and that was that's been a very uncomfortable um and I'm like I said I'm still working on it I'm actually reading what got you there or what got you here won't get you there right now uh and it's man it's really hitting close to home so that's a big one and the other thing that I've learned you know Lauren you wrote an article in Bloomberg um about a year ago about our industry the knitting industry the knitting industry yes and diversity and inclusion and um some of the women of color that have not felt have not been treated equally um and we took a stand you know on all of our platforms um and have stood with these women and with the bipot community um very publicly and I have learned that if you don't stand for something you stand for nothing there's some hubub that's been going on um this week Michelle Obama was just on our industry's leading knitting magazine um which was I mean it's just what a huge accomplishment and you know just how amazing and incredible to have this woman on like be the face on this magazine because she learned in it during the pandemic um and some people made some disparaging comments about it and you know so there's you know a huge conversation going on for the last few four or five days um and again you know we've stood up and held our ground and um and I'm just I'm really proud I've learned that if you stand up for what you believe in it doesn't mean you're going out of business you know there's so much fear how about you Dana I suspect you've learned a few things this year I have I have um keep going is the biggest it's it's it's a hard one to call because it's a matter of um you know everybody says you know keep going keep going but learning what that actually means as a business owner what it means to keep going um another I've learned a lot about myself um you know especially from the last episode where I was on here with you and you know learning that navigating that line between being a [ __ ] who I'm absolutely not um a lot of your listeners you know messaged me and said that's just not who you are I don't even know you but that's not you um navigating that line between having thinking that's what I need to do and demanding professionalism which you help me out with and help me you know begin to see what that meant um and also realizing that as business owners we don't just come to the table as business owners as with people in most positions we come with baggage and me really sitting down as this as my business Grows Right Through franchising and you know potential military opportunities and seeing what am I bringing to the table from childhood that is impeding my ability to demand professionalism um have the hard conversations and do what needs to be done and so my lesson from this year is being in a space that knows not only where I need to go but exactly where I am and why I'm there specifically this is who you need to be to be the leader of this opport this this company with this opportunity um understanding that you're not there yet um understanding why so you can daily navigate that growth so you can get there because the woman I am today has some growth to do before she can you know be the franchisor of five to 10 locations and potentially have um salons on on Military basis there's a voice that she has toine in order to say you know I know I'm paying you but I need you to do the job that I need you to do instead of paying people to not do what they say they're doing and I hadn't found that voice until recently so it's about knowing my power understanding why I fallen short of realizing what my power is um based on you know all the stuff I brought through my experiences in life um having a vision as to the type of CEO and owner I want to be and working every day to get to that person and prayerfully having people put around me you know like Jay had people brought into his life that you know were on this journey with him that made his company better and hopefully that I keep those people that are on this journey with me that'll make this company better and more importantly start attracting those people and part of the reason why I haven't is because I wasn't demanding professionalism and I haven't been the CEO I've needed to be to attract um those Stellar people it's more than money it's also where you are as a person I think money is a part of it so that's you know keep going know where you are where you want to be and what you're going to do and um and what you need to do to get there that has been my biggest lesson and don't be afraid of debt debt is huge um but before you take it on have a plan for it to the penny if you can it sounds like we're on a similar path too and just kind of trying to figure out like where are we in this leadership Journey if you will and who are we um because I feel like over the last year I have also really learned I'm not a CEO I'm I'm an owner I'm an owner operator what's the difference that you're drawing our attention to Laura um huge difference it's a huge difference I'm a small business I own a small business um right now and for the last like nine months I have been in the office maybe one day a week you know I've been kind of trying to reclaim I have been reclaiming my fitness my personal life you know all the things that I put on hold for the last five years to rebuild the business and to kind of try to save the business but I'm not some fancy CEO that's I don't know that it just feels like a huge difference um you know CEOs don't go and build racking you know they don't help move boxes during the move I mean maybe some of them do but they're I don't know they're fancier probably smarter I mean I gotta say that that I've I think that if you're the owner showing up and helping with the racking is actually probably one of the best things you can do as long as it doesn't take over your whole life because it demonstrates to your team that you've got some sympathy for the the whole operation so that's one of the things that now that my time is freed up from operational roles I like having the flexibility to jump back in now different businesses are different different sizes make make that choice different but for where I am it's one of the things that I do and it also gives me a good sense of what's happening in the business couple layers down that I wouldn't otherwise see so I wouldn't beat myself up about that well it's just you know when we just moved so we moved into this new building um a couple weeks ago and it was interesting as I was trying to figure out how involved do I get in the move and the layout of this building right so I go for a couple of days and I'm moving boxes and I'm putting stuff in the container and you know I'm working with the the movers but when it comes to laying out the space um I kind of I consciously decided just to back off you know and these guys my team knows how the space is going to be most efficient I'm talking about well even the retail space you know even the customer facing space I'm just like here's the kind of look I like here's what we want to accomplish go for it if I can help let me know you know what do you need is that working yeah I mean it's great I you know compared to five years ago I and I've probably mentioned this before but we're shipping out just as many packages as we did five years ago with half the staff because we I just you know quit quit screwing around and quit like sticking my nose in and try quit trying to help and just let them do what they do best and letting them you know fail if you will do you really think you're twice as productive because you're not in the day-to-day as much I think that that's absolutely 100% a part of it absolutely I agree with her I agree with Laura my business you know runs differently um you know I think it is good when like I've been spending a lot more time in the salon and they see me but my business is a little different although they're like oh wow that's Dana um they freeze and they don't perform as well um I conducted an interview this week with a staff member um whose job it is to do the interview um and I know she's capable of doing it but could barely get a sentence out there's the nervousness and the performative part of it as well yep and we had a meeting based on okay why is it when Dana here everybody is stuck on you know dysfunction like they can't they're dropping Combs and flat like what is going on um and they said it's kind of like having a superstar in here because in this industry there's nobody that looks like us that's doing what you're doing and so I have to be mindful of how relatable here I am yay Dana and they're like oh my God Dana so I have to navigate that line um and that's uncomfortable for me because I too am am an owner operator with CEO traits right right I'm a you know I'll go in there but I don't I want the business to run without me because that to me is a successful business if the owner has to be there for things to get done then why are you franchising yeah because you can't be in every state I've noticed and I'm with you Laura that when you step away and let them make mistakes and I've let them make mistakes but they don't want to make them in front of me yes exactly that was say stop coming to trainings they're like Dana could you please stop coming to trainings because they're feeling like I can't learn with Dana standing here because I want to show her that I've got it exactly exactly that's a great Point Dana this is the first time we've spoken since you and I had our one-on-one conversation I caught you at uh a really interesting moment you had just come back from a very successful trip to Germany but you were met with uh a couple of resignation letters and and you were you were feeling the pain C can you give us a quick update what what's happened since then how are things how have things been going sure so my um the person I have as operations manager has moved more into administrative capacity and we're going to talk you know in the month of December about how that looks as far as performance and pay um the manager is gone and that's okay um our stylist train um is involved but we understand that they their their their Vision may not equal our vision their vision for what they want for themselves may not is uh align with the opportunity and so we're looking for people that you know we'll get it and I think we'll find those people um but you know right now I I am where I am to me I've gotten the sciss scissors out and I'm cutting I'm cutting because I found out some of the crooks of my problem was I'm paying people who aren't doing what they say they're doing once I got more involved in my business I'm like what do you mean this isn't done um I'm getting reports out that it's done I'm here in the salon and it's not done um so it's like okay since that's not what you're going to do then you we need to find somebody who's going to do it um the anxiety is alive and well and anxiety is a close friend that wakes me up every morning and stays with me throughout the day um I too you know love what Laura just said about reclaiming my time and because my time has been peral time and so um tomorrow I turn the big four five right I saw 45 years on this Earth as of tomorrow and happy birthday thank you kind sir um and I'm going to reflect but project um and in my 45th year I want to get back with my fitness um connect with people that feed me not feed me because they assuage my anxiety over my business but just give me the confidence to move forward um I'm definitely going to reach out to Laura because I need some more of those you know hitting close to home books on my on my my reading list um but yeah I just I had a I had a breakdown which I needed um but that was quick and then I got back to work okay books can we Lauren can you do a book club or like a book recommendation once a week or once a month and the 21 house and then I was also going to ask could you do a gift guide maybe you could just like have a list or something of like places that we could buy gifts you know like if anybody needs a really nice conference table for their house then we would know to go to yeah just keep in mind they they don't fit in a stock oh well yeah a big stocking Laura this sounds like an assignment you might want to take on you have some free time now that you're not getting in so involved in the dayto day yeah I'd help with that I'd totally help with that that'd be fun actually the the the book that got mentioned what you here won't get you there that's one of the very few business books I've ever read and it is pretty good because when you're small you get used to doing you know whatever your pattern of behavior and then company changes you do have to change yep Dana and I you know we were talking um offline before we started the podcast about getting new cars and Dana just got a new car after 15 years you know it's her first new car in 15 years I'm about to possibly get my first new car in 10 years and there's this shame associated with it you know and embarrassment and I'm like I don't want to drive up to work in a just to be clear your embarrassment is not that you were driving a 15-year-old car your embarrassment is that you're going to be driving a new car yes yes and you don't want to be seen by employees is that it correct no well kind of yes so I've had my new car for a week and it was a beautiful experience thank you for that but I was excited and sick to my stomach because it's a beautiful automobile and I get in it and how do here's the question with everything that I talked about on the time last time I was on the podcast with all that's going on right now I deserve to be in a 15-year-old car that shakes after going 40 miles per hour on the highway that's what I I don't deserve this car until my business profits so much money and I'm where I want to be and my people just laughed at me they're like okay Dana Dana so this will be the most probably Mo the most profitable year that we've ever had and now and so I would have thought given your following your logic that now I deserve to have this really nice car I mean it's I mean I want to get a Jeep Wrangler it's not like it's some crazy nice car but um and it's actually the reverse because now I'm like this is the most profitable year that we've done and I still you know we're still paying people 15 20 bucks an hour 25 bucks an hour whatever you know why am I if we've had such profitable year why don't I double everybody's salary why don't I give everybody the money that I would spend on this new car like why would I spend it on myself I don't feel that way wait wa wait I let me just I I don't think you spent enough on that on that new car to double everybody's salary no that's a great point no you're right it's not that nice of a car yeah depending on the car like depending on the car I mean maybe not double it four a year but definitely give out bonuses I don't feel that way I think my staff you know makes a pretty Fair wage I just feel that my B and then I expected I'd be further in the 9 years that I'm I'm open and I didn't think I'd be able to have the type of car I wanted or the type of car that's in my garage right now until I was at that point and the fact that I've gotten it before that point makes me anxious and it makes me nauseous Paul do you worry about how you drive up to your business no he's a white man no I I I'm not an auto guy and everybody knows that and uh I drive a used Prius and it's a cheapo car and I just don't care would you feel uncomfortable driving in a you fancy new car probably and not for the sake of the employees because I think that there's an interesting thing where if you're too out of the out of the norm as a boss like if you're running up against what people expect from a boss and you're always more humble and more giving and what have you I think that there's a there's the possibility that people will just respect you less that if you if you at a certain point just like you know it's my business I'm going to spend the money and that's that's if you want to if you want that experience start your own business that there's that people are baffled if a boss isn't what they think a boss should be that's a great point and that's that book has really kind of started to help me recognize that the way I think people see me or the way I want people to see me is not is probably not the way that people see me my staff expects me to drive what I'm driving and ever since I've been driving it and they've seen me it's like it's almost made the Dana a little bit worse and that so this how much my staff makes what my staff thinks of me those are not my issues my issue is I should not be driving this until my business is in a healthier position whereas other people are saying to me you should be driving this because you worked your butt off for nine years and I'm like well if I work my butt off my business would be in a better situation so it's all of this back and forth with myself that I struggle with every time I press unlock Dan I want to go back to something you said uh early on which is that one of the things you learned this year is you can't be afraid of debt are are you in the process or have you just taken on more debt yes um the eidl that's debt at a good rate it's it's debt at a good rate but it's debt and it's 30 years of debt so I'm if I pay it off 75 years old and so you look at your you look at your um you look at your business and you go what is going to be the opportunity or how fast can I grow my business so I'm not in debt up to my ears at 70 60 70 something years old and so that's the conversation I want to have with Jay at some point um and I've been told well if you're going to sell your company don't worry about debt it shouldn't be exorbitant but you know the sale will absorb it okay um so it's about growing the company again growing the company till I feel like I can deserve the car I want and growing the company so I feel like this debt will still you know won't hinder my ability to run this business or sell this business when I if if the time comes and I choose to do you feel that you have the capital you need to pursue all the opportunities you have in front of you the military the franchising no I don't and and and so that's and that's not you know it's a small business I'll need in order to pursue with the military I'll need anywhere from 200,000 or less per base right and so that you know I don't have that with all the bases that they have listed I don't have that right now um and so I I do foresee myself taking on more debt and in order to realize this opportunity however these are different opportunities than private salons I'm doing it it's just me I'm a captive audience at Fort Brag so that's huge my dear friend who I love the owner of good cakes and bakes her name is April she always reminds me stop thinking that your past with your business here in Detroit is indicative of your future of perly Boyd and other cities and what you're going to do please don't cuz then if that's the case close tomorrow if that's how it's going to be forever no go get a job like it's not going to be worth it it's not it's going to be different um and based on the franchise inquiries I've gotten we've gotten over 70 almost 90 franchise inquiries even if three of those turn out to be viable we're we're on our way are you close to being in a position to actually sell a franchise no because my lack of confidence slowed the process down and talking to people who don't understand what I'm doing in my industry like I said I think I've said on this podcast before I talked to a guy who's like like yeah since you don't have seven locations you shouldn't be franchising and it jarred me and he said you know well why don't you have seven locations I said where am I going to get the money over seven locations he's like you're friends and family but you were confident enough to pay the franchise guy weren't you I know I was but this happened after I know but you got to chase that money you know mental health stuff it gets know I'm serious you know that you know of anybody here that the things that you tell yourself absolutely slow you down I'm back on track and so in 2022 early 2022 we will be ready but I should be ready in the fall I should be ready now and I'm not because I slowed down out of fear people like oh you slowed down because of military opportunity not at all I slow down because I'm like who's going to want to purchase this franchise you like oh you're the first um and there there aren going to be a lot of early adopters you're going to struggle until you can get you're not an orange theory I kept hearing that so and and you're the first so nobody's really going and it wasn't until the franchise consultancy the all the leadership everybody on my team got on a call and said stop talking to them we're the experts this is what you need to know and they showed me documented evidence of trailblazing franchises but how did you get how did you get to the point where you paid the money to the franchise guys and then the doubt comes like it's usually the reverse no I get because I was excited and I was doing my homework it was the people talking to me people you know from you know large major companies getting on the phone with me saying hey I work at such and such and such bank and I'm over the franchise you know department and these are the portfolios of the people who franchise that are successful your franchise isn't set up for a success your your story sounds good but yeah I'm a franchise and I have seven locations of this and I wouldn't invest in you I would not be an early adopter because your salon isn't a million plus Revenue a year I know but [ __ ] off like [ __ ] off I've already put the money down so I'm doing it no matter what it's I don't want I mean I know it's a sun cost but yeah well Dana where did you end up where did your thinking end up could that person be right or have you concluded that person is wrong again I followed the four tenants of jays who cares well who car I mean I think Jay would tell you that you you you do have to consider an opinion like that that somebody who is doing it themselves um they could be right and I did and there were questions that I asked him about my business and he was stumped and then that's when the fourth tenant came in [ __ ] you yeah you don't know okay you own a Wireless company a wireless repair store you have no idea how much money these women spend on getting their hair done you don't see how many inquiries I have just from two articles being put out but Dana you would agree that your case gets better the more stores you have open doing well I agree and so and and and that's what I'm saying that's why what the questions of doubt that's how they that's why they hit me because they weren't wrong they were just misinformed he wasn't wrong I mean yeah would I love to have seven locations right now and then just drop down the six figures to to to franchise sure but my franchise consultancy said said some of our most of our most successful trailblazing franchises didn't have the money to have seven locations and they said Dry Bar first location they franchise after one Massage Envy first location Massage Heights first location all these companies they said now now look at them stop listening to them listen to us and let's get to work yeah well and it sounds there's a it sounds like there's a bit of paralysis in terms of thinking too big instead of just taking the next step what is the next step the next step and I you I couldn't have like you know praise clap to Laura yes the next step like literally Church Clap sister with her head down waving her hands in the Pew right right stop thinking about the CEO you need to be and understand who you are today and you are enough for the next step today so the next step is getting through the documents of the operations manual the training manual what you can do in your sleep I just had that call and I was answering questions left and right it's easy so I got a question do the franchise guys know about the military thing and vice versa yep they sure do and they're not worried by that at all they were the franchise Consultants were but I'm not in a place where that's taking my time right and the franchise and the military wants to make sure that none of these locations will be uh franchises and I think I'll ask you a question what do you mean by worry what do you mean that they're worried well just BAS B on what I've heard so far over the course of the year the military thing seems like an entire birthday cake to eat by yourself and the franchise thing seems like an entire birthday cake to eat by yourself and I just think that there's going to be a capacity problem at some point uh to to really do these two opportunities if it's just me and two or three other people yes there's going to be a capacity problem but we're going to bring on the people to help me you just start Ed by telling us that your your team fell to pieces and you can't get them to do what you asked them to do I'd be worried if I were opening five locations tomorrow or within the next six months I'd be worried and I'd have to find or need help finding the person who was better than me like they say hire somebody better than yourself look I'm not like crazy I'm not a CEO okay and I'm not super successful wait you are a CEO yeah yeah I think I'm I'm going to I'm firing myself um I'm just going to be owner operator but are you going to hire someone else to be the CEO do we need a CEO for a business this size you know that's what I'm coming back to but anyway but I've had a track record of 20 years of a profitable business and I have operated Dana by jumping first and asking questions later throughout our entire career so I probably would have done what you did and put the money down and jump and knowing intuitively that this franchise thing is the right thing to do I'd put the money down and I'd sign my name on the paper before I had a chance to second guess myself and before I had a chance to let all the doubt sit and so then I would have that would for this is I mean my pattern of behavior is then it forces me to move forward while the doubt is creeping in and recognizing I don't have the skills I have not mastered that skill I don't have the team oh well I better figure it out you know and you'll figure it out you'll get it together you will figure it out the only thing that's going to stop in my the only thing that's ever stopped me is when I don't take the next step forward just take the [ __ ] next step and it will work out you're smart you know smart people you know you've got you don't have to figure everything out before but I think you do need to know what that next step is you need to have a plan and you have ex it's more complicated for you Dana cuz you have the two opportunities we've talked about plus the the software technology which we've talked about in previous episodes what what really is what is the plan to get both the military thing moving forward and the franchising thing moving forward simultaneously great question right now my priority is making sure that Midtown Detroit is a profitable location and that it's running well the next priority are the franch is the franchising making sure that we're getting through the franchise process which is some months away um I not in it alone right so I have a company I'm working with that is helping me with the military understanding that world understanding how the setup is what would work for a business owner what wouldn't I'm not in it alone when it comes to the franchising piece Ashley who has worked with me and who has operations experience with franchising that is very much a part of her wheelhouse and that's enough for today when I ask the franchise consultancy where am I with my support team do I have enough do I need to start looking for more because this is what I'm strong at and this is what I'm not they said you already have one person on Deck you're ahead of the game at this phase they will let me know based on the time they spent with me and what I need to do who I need to bring on and when what I'm capable of doing and what I'm need to bring on I'm with you Laura yep it's a lot I don't know today but I'm not going to forsake this opportunity because I'm not where I need to be I believe this opportunity will help get me there and you'll become a CEO we're almost out of time Dana has just kind of given us her priority uh going forward into next year I'm curious uh maybe Paul and Laura you can kind of do the same I I guess the question I would ask starting with you Paul is are you playing offense or defense no we're we're playing offense I I can't in my mind getting this GSA contract is a pretty big event for us because we've been doing significant business with the government for years but we also turn down about 2third of the inquiries we get because we didn't have a GSA contract so this is the next level for us and it presents opportunities just to expand the operation in terms of production but also to expand our marketing and think about it a different way because we've been dependent on Google leads for almost all of our business for many many years and this is the first alternate Channel where business would come outside of that and I'm in this kind of long-term battle with my industry and that we do business just a different way than everybody else does and I think that we're going to be able to bring that same approach to the GSA sales and it should be very successful what are you referring to when you say you do business in a different way than everybody else well as I explained at the beginning of the podcast the whole pricing quoting discounts all this other nonsense but you said you changed that to adjust to the way the others do it well that was just to get the contract that's just what had to had to happen to get through that little hurdle now we've got the contract and we can go back to dealing with our clients the way we like to deal with them and I think that the pandemic has probably been a huge favor for us because I have a feeling that it's knocked a lot of our competitors into a bad place people who were doing 100 million in business are probably doing 40 million and they won't be able to manage that whereas we are going to be around to pick up the pieces of those Market markets Laura how about you are you playing offense or defense we are definitely playing offense um and have been playing offense actually for a couple of years um with the Acquisitions and now with the new building and the expansion in retail so our focus is uh it's so funny I saw in the morning report the other day the section about how e-commerce companies are now thinking that they should really have brick and mortar and I'm like damn it we have been saying that I've been saying that for so long you know we've had all these business experts say why do you still have a brick and mortar why do you have a brick and mortar like if it's not the most profitable why do you do it like because it's one it's the heart and the soul of the business and two you get to leverage inventory that way by having like two channels anyway so we're doubling down on retail you know over the next year in the store that exists in the new building that you just bought or are you thinking of opening other locations as well you know we always been thinking of opening other locations we'll see um we're going to open a location in Texas you know a factory store so we'll see how that goes and then see I'd like to like kind of like Dana um I'd like to fine-tune this location here in Reno and see what we can learn and put some processes in place kind of in preparation for perhaps opening another location someday you know maybe in a city that doesn't have a yarn shop um but the for the next year the priority really is just going to be to get these two locations open and running I could talk to you guys all day but we are out of time well wait a minute Lauren what's what are you g do good question Paul wow I wasn't expecting that Paul why not well because I asked the questions here that's why uh but it's a fair question I'm figuring that out I I would like to think I'll be playing offense but um you know it's kind of a question of how many resources I have and I'm I'm working on that does that answer your question not really that sounds a little weasly fortunately we're out of time and uh well we're going to have to hold that for a future discussion but I I promise to give you a better answer next time Paul my thanks to Paul Downs Dana White and Laura Xander as always thanks for sharing guys and here it is your marketing minute with Steve KR of be found online here's today's question Steve I've heard this term account-based marketing what is it and why should I care it's not new anymore it's been around for about four or 5 years I would say maybe a little longer account-based marketing is getting us into that onetoone relationship we all want with our clients Lauren it's that place where you take your list of Ideal clients or ideal accounts and you name them so let's say you want to work with Gerber who makes um all those baby strollers right it's not just advertising to a gerber it's identifying the folks at Gerber who you want to speak with and then it's targeting your Marketing in sales activities toward them so that you're sending a message but it's not just sending that one directional marketing it's not putting up a billboard or not just putting an ad It's a combination of things and one of the big things that's not happening in ABM right now is you used to get gifts in the mail from people that wanted to Target you we don't want to give away our home addresses so that's sort of slowed down but account-based marketing hasn't we're developing lists of our Target accounts we're targeting the people in those accounts and this is why you need to do it because as you and I probably spoken several times we know our customers are out there the people that we want to speak with our job is to go up at the front of this and identify them so you as a business owner or marketing manager can go in and identify those accounts and customers and what you do is you provide a sequence of events and actions to try and Target that person it's not just a one trick pony it's not a piece of content one piece of content email it's a structured approach to working all of those contacts at all of those accounts until you get to a yes or no and that's what account based marketing is and I hope I gave a little bit of the why there Lauren all right if you want to know more look for Steve's marketing minute blog post at 21h hats.com thanks Steve thank you wait wait don't leave yet if you have a question or a comment that you'd like the 21 hats owners to address send it to me by replying to your Morning Report or by email at Lauren 21h hats.com that's l r n and at 21h hats.com do it now before you forget and don't be afraid to tell Jay what you really think he can take it and if you got something out of this conversation help us reach more business owners tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter subscribe to the morning report at 21h hats.com this episode was produced by Jess Theron founder of blank word Productions okay now you can leave thanks for listening everyone hey