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Add mentionThis week, we revisit a conversation with Laura Zander that we first published last year, shortly after she and her husband Doug sold Jimmy Beans Wool, the business they had spent more than two decades building. Laura had been preparing to sell for years. She had kept the company’s books clean, built systems that could survive without her, and cultivated relationships with potential buyers. In other words, she had done many of the things owners are told they should do to prepare for an eventual exit. And still, when the right buyer finally came along, Laura says the process nearly broke her.
There were 155 due diligence requests, endless rounds of legal negotiations, mountains of paperwork, and months when Laura and Doug were so consumed by the transaction that the business itself suffered. Meanwhile, life kept happening: a major website migration, tariffs, industry turmoil, family issues, and the constant fear that some unexpected development would cause the buyer to walk away. Even after the papers were signed, the work—and the stress—continued. Laura did ultimately get a deal she was happy with. But the more useful lesson may be what it took just to get there.
Published August 25, 2026
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About 21 Hats Podcast
The 21 Hats Podcast presents an authentic weekly conversation with small business owners who are remarkably willing to share what’s working for them and what isn’t. Unlike many business podcasts, which tend to talk to highly successful entrepreneurs whose struggles are in the past, the 21 Hats Podcast features a rotating cast of business owners who are still very much in the trenches fighting the good fight. Every week, our regulars gather to talk about the kinds of important issues many owners won’t even discuss behind closed doors: whether their businesses are as profitable as they should be, whether they are willing to give up some control to an investor in order to grow faster, why they had to lay off employees, how they wound up with way too much inventory, why they don’t have a succession plan, and even why they are concerned about their own mental health. Visit 21hats.com to hear all of our podcast episodes, read episode transcripts, and learn more. The show is produced by Jess Thoubboron, founder of Blank Word.
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Laura Zander Yeah, we migrated our website to Shopify back in December.
Warren Feldman That's not what I had in mind, Laura.
Laura Zander Oh, well, that was big news.
Warren Feldman I'm sure that was a big deal too.
Laura Zander It was. We did that at the same time as we were in a transaction to sell our business, which finalized in April. So, we sold our business and signed away everything on April 4th.
Warren Feldman Congratulations.
Laura Zander Thank you very much.
Warren Feldman Are you happy?
Mel Gravely Yeah, how's that feel?
Laura Zander Well, have I ever been happy? I mean, that's a really, like, deep question. Am I glad that we did it? 1,000%. Do I have any regrets? I mean, sure, like, there are things that I learned that I could have done better during the transaction. But—
Warren Feldman We want to hear about those.
Laura Zander I mean, it's just, you know, it's— they're just things that you don't know until you know, you know, things that you haven't figured out. I guess that's why as we get older, we get so much wiser. Some of us. But no, I don't regret it at all. It was the best thing we could have done. 1,000 billion trillion. I mean, just absolutely no regrets. It was the hardest thing, the most emotionally Mentally, physically taxing roller coaster ride that— I mean, it was like doing an ultramarathon on a roller coaster while you have malaria or something. I mean, it was just awful. Like, so awful. I mean, so many times I thought I was gonna break. You know, it was Rocky 1 for sure. But we made it through.
Warren Feldman That's quite a description. We're going to ask you about that. Did you celebrate afterwards? What did you do?
Laura Zander It's so funny that you would ask that. What a great segue, Lauren. What I was going to say is what's so interesting is that you would— one would think that on the day that you sell the business, you like this great weight is lifted off of your shoulders and you feel so much better and everything is just, you know, the sun is shining. It was—it's not like that. It's so intense. I mean, it probably was another 60 days. So we are just now, now that we're about 100 days in, 120 days in, we are just now coming out of the unbelievably ridiculous amount of stress and work that is required. Now part of that is because I stayed on the parent business. We completely restructured. I'm an overachiever, so of course, like I want to stay on. I do. I want. I want to be helpful and useful, so I'm doing multiple jobs. But Doug still, I mean, every single day he spends hours and hours. We're still spending hours and hours every day tying up all of the loose ends. Every state that you've paid sales tax to, every state that you've had an employee. So you've got like the Department of Revenue, all the reconciliation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So no, we didn't celebrate. We're too tired. So we will probably celebrate in— I mean, realistically, and I'm not trying to be pessimistic or a downer, but I'm guessing January or February is when it might start to hit. But it may not be until April or May of next year, once we get through the taxes of 2025 and pulling together all of that paperwork, you know, and all the complexity that comes along with it. there's just so much. Like, I had no idea.
Mel Gravely I'm wondering, will the listeners know about the business? Will they know what the business was and all that lore?
Warren Feldman Laura has been on from the beginning, so many of our listeners will know, about her business. But it's a really good question. And let me just say, I've known Laura for a long time. It's worth pointing out this is a business, Jimmy Beans Wool, that You started from scratch with your husband Doug, you know, like 22 years ago? Is that right?
Laura Zander 23.
Warren Feldman You started as a neighborhood store where you sold yarn and coffee. And you were both refugees from the dot-com bubble. You had been developers in San Francisco before the bubble burst. You started this neighborhood yarn store and then you took it online and you built an amazing business. In 22 years, through both acquisition and organic growth. Can you tell us how big the business got by the time you sold it?
Laura Zander Yeah. I mean, I was always open with that before, but I think, you know, at the end, we were doing $13, $14 million in sales, had about 70, 60, 70 employees. And like you said, over the last 7 years really is when we started to grow Through acquisition, as you mentioned, you know, Mel, we stayed debt-free. That was something that was really important to us. We had a brick-and-mortar here in Reno and a warehouse distribution center. We had a building that we bought ourselves a couple years ago here in Reno, and then we purchased a business in Fort Worth, Texas, five almost six years ago. So I was spending about half of my time or a third, you know, depending on the season, you know, a third of my time down in Texas. And that was a factory. So it was a manufacturing facility, 30,000 square feet. You know, we, we dyed yarn there and then we slowly turned that into a distribution center for B2B. So we had started B2C and then ended with half of our revenue being B2B. So in the last 5 or 6 years, 5 years, we had almost doubled our business. So it really put my foot on the gas then. And I think, you know, you always, you read the books that are build to sell, you know, selling the business has always been on my mind. I mean, for the last 15 years, this wasn't something new. I mean, ever since I met Lauren, our approach was you'll end up with the healthiest business, or we thought we would end up with a healthier business if we approached it as if we were going to sell it any day now. Because then that drove us to having really good financials and it drove us to having systems that could be, you know, replicated or picked up or folded under. And, you know, even the portfolio of businesses that we acquired, you know, there was some strategy in that and trying to fill the gaps. And does this look attractive to somebody else?
Jennifer Karen Laura, can you tell us a little bit about that story? Like, tell us, were you actively going out and trying to find buyers, or did the buyers come to you? Walk us through that story a little bit.
Laura Zander No, but no, I was not actively going out, you know, trying to find buyers. But for the last 10-ish years, if I met somebody that either had the money or I knew, knew somebody who had the money, or I thought it could be a good strategic fit, I mean, I was never shy with, oh, hey, Bob, it's really nice to meet you. Do you want to buy my business? Literally, like, literally. And Lauren knows me. I mean, he knows that I'm not exaggerating.
Jennifer Karen How many times do people say yes?
Laura Zander A couple, you know, a couple we should talk about it. I mean, there were a couple where we, you know, got a little teeny bit farther down the road. A lot of times, you know, even let's say 10 years ago, I'd say I'm not. And even in this case, we're not worth what we want to be worth. But I want to put myself on your radar so that when we are worth it, or When you are ready to buy something or you know add something to to your portfolio, you think of me. So it was never a short-term you know play. It was always a hey, I'm here. Hey, I'm here. Like don't forget about me. And I just figured when the time was right, the time would be right. So yeah, I mean the company that ended up buying us, you know, I we've been on their radar for years, you know, years and years, and they've been on our radar for years and years. But I had multiple— I was polygamous that way, I guess. I don't know if that's the right word.
Jennifer Karen You Western people.
Laura Zander Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Karen Did you have a valuation? Did you, did you know the number you wanted before you talked to them?
Laura Zander Yeah, but I've known for years. I mean, that's, you know, I've actively thought about— I mean, every year I value us, you know. I mean, I know what I'm driving towards. I know what EBITDA I want. You know, we know I know what percentage we want for this and that. And I know just kind of intuitively, I guess, like where synergies would be found. So, if I'm thinking about this company, you know, before I say, hey, do you want to buy me? I mean, I've got some kind of like thought behind why it would work and why it would be a good fit for somebody and where we could add value. So, I didn't go get a formal valuation. I didn't need to. I've been looking at this long enough that I—
Warren Feldman Why do you say that, Laura? Why didn't you need evaluation? And the buyer didn't want evaluation?
Laura Zander Because we said, this is— if we are not looking to sell it right this second, if you would like to buy us, this is how much we need. And they could take it or leave it. And that's where we ended up.
Jennifer Karen Did you end up with that number or did you?
Laura Zander Yeah, we did.
Jennifer Karen I heard one, one CEO say to me, I'll offer you any amount of money you want for your business as long as I can dictate the terms.
Laura Zander No.
Jennifer Karen Did you? How were your terms?
Laura Zander Well, I don't know what to compare it to, you know? I mean, ask me in 10 years, ask me in 2 years. So right now they're fine. But if we get sued in a year or 2 years or something comes up, I mean, That was something that I was completely unprepared for because all the acquisitions we've done have been small family-run companies. You know, we're a small family-run company. You know, it's all boilerplate. And this, you know, you're with the big dogs. And so their indemnifications and their like just all of the negotiating terms were Extremely detailed. If after we sell the business, somebody comes in and they sit in that chair and the chair breaks and they fall down and they break their pelvis, who's liable? Is it the buyer who now owns the business, or is it me because I didn't disclose that that chair was past its, like, lifespan? And should have been replaced. You know, so you have to think through, or at least we did, pretty much like every class of scenario of something like that happening.
Warren Feldman Laura, did you want to stay on?
Laura Zander I was, I could have gone either way. I mean, I told you, I'm like, if you find me useful and you think it would be helpful, for me to stay on, then I'm happy to stay on. If you don't want me to stay on and you think it would be cleaner and the business would be more successful if, because, you know, as the founder, I stepped away, then I'm happy to step away. We're still kind of in that phase, right? It's been 3 or 4 months. We did end up, you know, I took a role as an employee. I'm in the C-suite. There are 3 of us. And at this point, like, I think think I'm being useful, you know, and I think that the business is benefiting, you know, from my experience. And I am learning a ton from these other 2 women who, you know, went to business school and like they know what they're doing. So for me, it's— while it was unbelievably, incredibly stressful for the first couple of months, we're getting— it's starting to like level out. And I'm getting to the point where I'm getting to start to read business books again. I'm getting to start to think about things at a slightly more strategic and higher level than I have in a long time. And that's super, super exciting.
Warren Feldman I think the other term that Jennifer might have been referring to is whether or not there's an earnout. Did you get your price all now, or is there a period of time before you get the rest of the deal?
Laura Zander We structured the deal so that if everything in the world collapsed tomorrow, if, I don't know, there's some crazy thing like a pandemic, you know, and the economy completely collapsed, we were happy. So yeah, I mean, we got the deal that we were looking for. So, you know, we were very lucky that way. And they were very honorable that way. And we were lucky in that we were like, look, again, we don't have to sell. I know the business isn't as big and isn't where I want it to be someday. That said, I mean, I had been shooting for a certain value. I wanted our business to get to a certain value and we weren't there yet. So I was willing to take what it was valued at at the time.
Jennifer Karen Laura, how long were the phases, right? The phase where you're negotiating Then you agree on something, and then the phase of all the documentation. Like, can you walk us through that timeline?
Laura Zander Sure. You know, we like semi-formally signed, you know, a non-disclosure, I think, in maybe October or so. And then it was— I think it was Thanksgiving.
Jennifer Karen Wait, October of 2024?
Laura Zander Yeah, yeah,
Jennifer Karen Right. Not that long ago. Oh, that doesn't seem that long. I thought you were going to tell me a year and a half ago. Okay, all right.
Mel Gravely Well, that's a long time.
Jennifer Karen Is it, Bill? I have no idea. I don't know.
Mel Gravely It's because it's brutal. I mean, you just described what— I mean, it's brutal, the due diligence and the back and forth negotiations.
Laura Zander I mean, the process took 5 months, like, like from the time we like put it down on paper that yes, we were interested in formally moving forward. You know, the dating process, if you want to call it that, I mean, we had been chatting casually and flirting a little bit, I guess, for about 6 months. But I was also, you know, polygamous. And I was also in a dating—
Mel Gravely Others.
Laura Zander I was also in other conversations, you know, just coincidentally at the same time, and had gone down the path with some others. But from the time— I mean, we started the due diligence around Thanksgiving. And I remember that because that was our Thanksgiving, you know, where the 155 items that were on the due diligence list. And then we originally had planned to close the deal in January. But to your point, the negotiations back and forth and just, you know, the communication of their lawyer and our lawyer and, you know, then Me and the CEO would chat, you know, about some stuff, and then some of the stuff would go back and forth. Yeah, just all the paperwork just ended up taking— and then with the election, so not only did we do this over the holidays and a Shopify migration, so a complete platform migration that we had worked 11 months on, so we changed our entire platform that we've had for 20-some years.
Warren Feldman That your husband built.
Laura Zander That my husband built. So, he's driving that election, Christmas, or I shouldn't say election, but inauguration, but election and post-election. And then Doug's parents, his dad is not doing well and, you know, has got Alzheimer's now and blah, blah, blah. I mean, it was just brutal, brutal, brutal. But that took— it ended up taking 3 months. So, I actually signed the paperwork. I mean, at the end of the day, on a Friday when I was in Vietnam for business, the Friday that I got to Vietnam, we got word that the paperwork could all be signed and the deal could be done by the following Friday, but we were going to have to push it, you know, to get just all the last stuff, all these last schedules, you know, so it's Document every single, you know, all of your assets, document all the computers, document— it's just all the, you know, all the paperwork. So we signed it and the deal closed when I was in Vietnam, in North Vietnam, in the hills, trying to source some like really unique fabric and filming a documentary thing. Yeah, it was exhausting. Just exhausting.
Mel Gravely You know, though, there's so many things, Lauren, that I would tease out of this that just are so unusual. Just to begin with, the intentionality of building it to sell it is rare. The patience to keep building the value of it so that it gets to a place where it is more valuable to someone to buy, which means keeping your books clean and all of that. I mean, there's just so much that goes into Prior to dating and flirting and then finding a proper mate. I just don't— I hear people say they want to sell their business and they decided today and they think it's ready to sell tomorrow. The truth is most of them just, they just aren't, they just aren't ready for that.
Laura Zander No, I mean, you got to go to the gym for a
Jennifer Karen While to get bikini ready.
Laura Zander Yes. Yeah. I mean, just do. And again, At least my thought process was, and I think it was like The E-Myth or something that I read like 15 years ago. It was like, I think his was like, build your business as if you're going to franchise it, you know, in terms of like systems and processes and everything else. And mine was, and then there was a book, Built to Sell, Build to Sell or something. But it was, this is just best practices, even if we keep the business for the rest of our lives. And we always had that open. You know, I mean, again, we didn't need to sell. We weren't actively looking to sell it. But I always wanted, you know, I wanted my legs to look good if the right person came along. And, you know, I wanted to be attractive.
Jennifer Karen Laura, did your employees know you were going to the gym or flirting around?
Laura Zander You know, some of my leaders. Yeah, I've always been open about that. And I had been open about Doug and I will not have this forever, you know. So whether we do an ESOP, whether, you know, we don't know what it's going to look like, but we're not Jay, you know. I'm not going to do this until I'm 65.
Jennifer Karen When did they find out that you sold it? The day that you— the money was in your bank, or—
Laura Zander No, and that is what created a bit of the complication, is because I did already have this trip to Vietnam and we had this like film crew going and everything. I mean, it was something that I couldn't get out of. It wouldn't have been right for me to get out of it. So when the date came around that we were going to close on the 4th, and I was going to be in Vietnam, it added a layer of complication in that we had to do a leaseback, because we didn't want to tell all of our employees while I'm in Vietnam, right, and my general manager of the Reno location was with in Vietnam with me. And she's the one who, like, you know, that everybody works for on the Nevada side. So what I did is, like, for the month before we closed, I spent time with each of our leaders. So I flew to Texas, and I told our general manager down there, hey, this is— there's a 95% chance this is going to happen. And then, you know, I sat down with our leader in Reno. So I gave them a few weeks to process and to think about it. And, you know, for me to be around for us to talk about it and stuff. But then what we did is, after the 4th, you know, I was still in Vietnam. And we spent a week and they leased back the employees from us so that we didn't have to tell our employees for a week. And so they— everybody still got their paychecks from us. I mean, it was effectively invisible, right? And that just created a ton of complication. You know, and in all kinds of different ways, like who's liable if somebody slips and falls, who's liable if you know there's a discrimination claim, or you know whatever. Who's paying the health insurance? Who's paying this? Who's paying that? Who pays workers' comp? So figuring, you know, paying the lawyers to figure all that stuff out. But we ended up telling our teams. I I want to say it was like on the eighth or the ninth, ninth or tenth, about a week later.
Warren Feldman Laura, we should say who bought your company. If I'm not mistaken, it was a larger company in your industry. So it was a strategic buy for them. Is that right?
Laura Zander It was, yeah, it was a strategic buy. It was called— it's called Local Crafts Group. And they own another— a number of other formerly family-owned craft brands in the industry. And I had seen what they had done with Some of the ones that they had purchased over the last few years, and they had done a really phenomenal job. And so I, you know, that's again Doug and I were like, "Ah, you know, should we just wait and try to build the business more because there was so much growth to be had, or are we ever going to find somebody that's going to be a better fit?" And we just were like, we just didn't think there'd be a better fit. We didn't think there was somebody like a group of people that could do a better job with our business. businesses and kind of activate or execute on all the things that we— all the dreams that we had had than these guys. So yeah, so I am now the Chief Brand Officer of the Local Crafts Group.
Warren Feldman Are you excited about being the Chief Brand Officer and being part of this mission going forward, or are you hoping to do something else fairly soon?
Laura Zander I mean, there are again Because we just went through this, I am coming out of the exhaustion. And it hasn't been fair for me to judge because I've been doing my old job, you know, parts of my old job in addition to doing the new job. So, I don't have a super clear vision of what this new job is going to look like. That said, it is becoming more and more clear every day. And I just think there's so much we could be done. I mean, Or so much to do. Like, we are finally— we finally have an opportunity. I finally have an opportunity to have all the resources and the expertise and, like, you know, just the backing to do all these things that we've always wanted to do.
Warren Feldman Is it different thinking that you won't be the owner?
Laura Zander Oh, I love it. That, that's the best part.
Warren Feldman Correct me if I'm wrong here, Laura. I think early on in this podcast, we did an episode where you expressed the thought that There are times when you just get tired of having to make every decision. You wish somebody would just tell you what to do.
Laura Zander 1,000%.
Jennifer Karen Amen to that.
Laura Zander And somebody else would just pay the bills.
Warren Feldman And is this what that is?
Laura Zander Yes, it is so nice. Like every day I— and I told, you know, I told our CEO, I'm like, I mean, the— what got me through these first couple months, really, I mean, again, because it was just— it's so intense. I don't think there's any way around it. But it's just, I woke up for a month and I'm like, oh my God, I could quit my job today. I have not felt that feeling in 22 or 23 years. Like for 23 years, you can't quit your job. Like you can close it down, but you know, there's all this paperwork, there are all these things you got to do. I mean, as we're learning right now, but I haven't had the freedom to just walk away and Decades. And that freedom, ironically, like really, really motivated me and is still very, very motivating. Like it just, it's so nice to know. And it's so like, I feel so much more balanced. Like, I mean, God, Lauren, like now I wake up in the morning, I do, I read a little bit, I do yoga, I go for a run for an hour or two, and then I come back and I start work at 9 o'clock. I mean, I work late, you know, and there are days that I'll put in 12 or 14, but I have figured out this is a job, you know? I haven't had a job. Like, I don't have to be here. I am here because I want to be here. Like, I want to learn, I want to, you know, push, you know, whatever. I want to make things happen, I want to make this better, I want to see what impact we can have. And I want to see this work. You know, I'm really excited to like see, to have this experience and like work in a much, much, much bigger company and just level up and see if I can do it. I don't know if I can fight at this weight class.
Jennifer Karen Laura, is your husband with the new company? How did that relationship, your marriage, go through this process?
Laura Zander He is not. I mean, he's still consulting, you know, so he's still doing a lot because he was a software engineer. And so he's still helping migrate some of the data. Yeah, he just, you know, he really wanted to retire. He was done, just done. So, as far as how our marriage made it through, how do you make it through anything after 25, 28 years? You just do.
Mel Gravely I'm curious of what the team, of what your team looked like when you were going through this, because it sounded like you were involved in a lot of the detail gathering. yourself, all the due diligence. I'm sure they had a data room and all that kind of stuff you had to put crap into.
Laura Zander Yes.
Mel Gravely Was there anybody internal that could help you there, or—
Laura Zander No.
Mel Gravely Okay, so you, you were, you were doing the data gathering, the HR stuff, and the financials, and the— oh boy.
Laura Zander Yes.
Mel Gravely Oh boy.
Laura Zander Yes.
Mel Gravely Yeah, you should teach a class. I mean, people who want to sell, it's just funny, then they get in it and, you know, the buyer has all these questions And, and everything you give them, they've got 3 more questions about everything you gave them, right? Because they look at it, right?
Laura Zander Yeah.
Mel Gravely And so every one document turns into 3 requests, and, data mining just goes on and on. If you're pulling that stuff yourself, oh my Lord, I get it. I totally get it.
Laura Zander Well, and I don't know if this is right or wrong, one, nobody's gonna know the data better than I do, or Doug. And two, nobody has the same skin in the game to present the data. So I don't know that I would want anybody else because I really want to make sure that we're— I mean, obviously I'm going to give them the correct data, you know, and accurate data. But I also, you know, I'm not dumb. I want to make sure that it's telling the story that I want to tell. And again, I don't know. But This might be one of those cases where the best person to do it is us. But we are also very financially involved. You know, we, we really know our financials. We really know, you know, the information systems.
Warren Feldman You know, Laura, I think it's a fairly common thing in the course of a business sale, even when the owner isn't as fully involved in every detail as it sounds like you were. For the owner's attention to be so completely on the possible sale that it's easy to lose track of running the business and the business suffers during that period. Was that an issue for you at all?
Laura Zander Oh, absolutely. Yeah, 1,000%. And that's something that we've talked about, you know, and I mean, that was a source of tremendous anxiety. January, you know, our numbers, one, we had just migrated to a new platform, so we lose all of our organic rankings. So site traffic, you know, has gone way down on the e-commerce side of our business. I am not focused. I'm, you know, I'm working on this transaction. Doug's working on the transaction. I mean, it's— so I'm not focused on how do we compensate, how do we figure it out. And frankly, I don't have the energy. You know, I don't have the energy to push because I'm already pushing like as hard as I possibly can. And so when your numbers come back and they're not as good as they were, and then you're just like, oh my God, are they going to walk away because the numbers aren't as good as they are? And it was really harrowing, you know, every little thing. Then I'm in Vietnam and the tariffs get announced and I'm in Vietnam sourcing and they're like, yep, 45% tariffs. And I'm like, well, you know, the deal is going to get canceled. I mean, there were so many things that popped up that you're like, well, I mean, Joann's. Joann's went through bankruptcy and closed, you know, while we were going through this. Again, you know, the new administration with some things in place that weren't favorable, you know, to the business. So, you just, every step of the way, you're like, well, there it goes. I, you know, it's not going to happen. And then, you got to try to dig out and repair all of the things that you've been neglecting, you know, for the last couple months because you just simply only have so much energy. Yeah, it was fun.
Mel Gravely The longer it stays on the market, though, the longer the process is. Like you say, things happen because life just keeps happening. And
Laura Zander Yep,
Mel Gravely We're in weird times now. But, you know, Joanne's could have closed anytime. It just— that can't be helpful to the conversation of where you're— what you're trying to do. So,
Jennifer Karen And Mel, you say long close. I wonder how long a typical closing is. I have no idea. And so Laura, Did you think this is an average time? Is this longer than normal? What's the average time to close a sale of a business?
Laura Zander Well, I would assume that it's, I mean, it's based on the size and the complexity of the business, but under a year. I mean, even if you, I was just watching like Bob Iger's masterclass, right? And he talks a lot about the acquisitions that he's worked on. I mean, obviously it depends on, are you on good terms? You know, with— I mean, does the other side really want this to happen? And can you agree on some things? But I think 6 months, 6, 9 months, you know, is pretty— maybe 9 months is the average. We did it in 5. We were trying to do it in 3 or 4, which maybe we didn't even do it in 5. Maybe we did it in 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. Yeah, like 4, 4 and a half. So it was probably pretty quick.
Warren Feldman Did you have a broker helping you?
Laura Zander No, no, we did not.
Warren Feldman Interesting. How did you decide not to use a broker?
Laura Zander Because most of the smart people that I've talked to told me don't ever do that, that it's just a waste of money.
Jennifer Karen Did you have other advisors? Like, did you have a whole slew of tax advisors and lawyers and stuff? Who— how many advisors do you think you had?
Laura Zander Probably not as much as we should. I mean, we, you know, we found a lawyer, our, our tax people did help us a little bit, but not a ton. You know, we just sent them over the agreements. And one, I mean, the first step is, okay, if this is the price that we get, how much are we going to end up with, you know, and are we okay with that? And then the second part was just, can you look at these agreements and see if there's anything in here, you know, that's, that is a red flag. And then we found a local lawyer. I mean, we, you know, Doug's from the Midwest. He's a, he's a frugal dude. Our tax people had referred us to, you know, a high-priced attorney in Atlanta who wanted a couple hundred grand, you know, to do the transaction. And then we found a nice local guy in Reno And he wanted $30,000. So, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I mean, $800 an hour, I'll do some of the work. You know,
Mel Gravely I've seen that be all over the place on time-wise and level of help you get. The only thing I would say, people considering it, is I've learned this the hard way. Start with the tax implications. So there's certain ways to structure a deal. But the thing that's going to hurt you the most is considering how you do it to make it the most tax advantageous for you. Because people don't think about that, right? So checking with your tax folks, as you did, probably helped a lot. At least you knew, here's what I'm going to end up with.
Laura Zander At the end of the day, we didn't want to ever have to work again. Right? I mean, otherwise, why bother? Then I'm just gonna have to go get another job. And, you know, so we just had to do a lot of thinking. And my husband, he's such a nerd, or 2, but he put together a whole Monte Carlo of like, if we get this and then after taxes we get this and we live to, you know, what's the standard deviation of, you know, if we live to 92 versus 87 versus this. And he ran it 2,000 times between, you know, looking at interest rates from 1929 or 1921 or whatever to 2024. And like, what are all the averages? So what's the probability that what we end up with is going to be enough for us to lead a comfortable life, not an extravagant life, but a comfortable life until we're in our late 80s? You know, and once we were okay with that, then we're like, okay, you know, but we didn't do anything until like that. Because you got to have your bottom. I mean, for us, we had to have our bottom line. And we had to, we had to be able to say, look, We are not going below this. Like, we're just not. And if that's not okay, then that's okay, but we can't.
Warren Feldman Did that become a point of contention?
Laura Zander Not really. I mean, I'm sure there's some famous quote out there, but it's basically like, once you make a decision, then it's easy because it's just like, this is— I mean, it's just math. Like, this isn't emotional, it's not preferential. We're just telling you this, this is it.
Warren Feldman Were you surprised by anything in the due diligence period? Did you learn anything about the business that you didn't know?
Laura Zander Yeah, we did. We found a couple things, and it was really helpful, you know. And so me, the eternal, the eternal like positive spin marketer, was like, Doug, even if this doesn't work, look at these great things that we've learned. Like, it's so worth the time that we learned You know, I mean, I don't want to go into details, but there were a couple things we should have been doing that we weren't doing that we didn't know we were supposed to be doing. I mean, it was nothing that like affected anybody, you know, day to day, but there was some paperwork that we should have been filing that we didn't know we were supposed to be filing. Just little stuff like that, you know, buttoned up stuff that was really helpful. And, you know, again, in the spirit of if this doesn't work, this process has Taught me a ton about what I need to, you know, what we need to do better for the next time. And that's, you know, when we would have those moments where we're like, oh crap, this isn't going to go through, it's not going to work. And I'm like, look, this is then this is just a dry run. And let's think about like how much we've just learned from this process. Like it was cheaper to do this than to go to Harvard Business School, and we actually just got to experience it. firsthand. And so, let's set our files up so that the next time, it's much easier to do, like to supply all this due diligence stuff. Because we have it, you know, we basically know what somebody's going to ask for. I mean, just little simple stuff like that.
Warren Feldman How did your employees react when you did tell them?
Laura Zander My leadership team, they You know, we're a little bit stunned, but over talking about it a couple times, they were actually really pumped. You know, I mean, I really positioned it and believed in and do believe. I'm like, all of these things that we've wanted to do that we haven't had the resources and we haven't been able to do, we're gonna have. We're getting help. I was just like, look, we're gonna get help. Like, we're going to have a whole accounting department that can help us instead of it just being me. You know, we're going to have a whole HR department. You know, we're going to have a whole IT department instead of it just being Doug. So, yes, it'll be an adjustment. But yeah, I mean, they were okay. You know, honestly, we only had a couple people who were— who didn't make it through, who basically opted not to come along with us. And, you know, I mean, I think out of our numbers, that was really great.
Warren Feldman Did you have to make any tough staffing decisions as part of the sale?
Laura Zander I did. Yeah, we did. Yeah, as we consolidated things together and there was some redundancies, you know, so the CEO and I spent time, you know, spent a lot of time with our org charts, you know, figuring out what the consolidated organization should look like. So, I mean, that's awful, you know, super awful. But I mean, it is, it is what it is.
Jennifer Karen Congratulations. I mean, you do sound exhausted, so it probably hasn't completely set in yet.
Laura Zander No, it hasn't.
Jennifer Karen You do sound that way. But it's, you know, for all those CEOs who are not yet at that situation, it's an inspiration, right? I mean, for all the things you said, We work hard. Every business owner that's listening to this podcast, we work hard. And to know that somebody else can make a decision and there's other resources, you know, and that you have the financial compensation for all those late nights, right? The times away from your— I think you have a son, right? Your son's time, the times where you had to work during vacation. Yeah. It's inspiring to hear this story. So often You know, we talk about how are we going to get out of this mess? How are we going to fix something? How are we going to create something? So it's, it's, it's lovely to hear that you did so well. Congratulations.
Warren Feldman Oh, thank you.
Mel Gravely Amen.
Laura Zander Yeah, I, I mean, I really, really, really, like, I couldn't be happier. I— and I will use the word, Lauren. I mean, I really couldn't. I am so grateful, I can't even describe it. Like so grateful, and I'm just I'm even so grateful for this job. You know, a chance to like be around some like just really smart people and learn like how to operate and see what life is like. You know, in on this side of the fence, you know, I needed it. I needed something new. I needed something fresh. I needed like a change personally, you know, selfishly. And I think the business needed it. You know, the business is gonna be so much better, and I can't wait to like watch and see. that happen and be part of it.
Warren Feldman Well, you earned it.
Laura Zander Thank you.
Warren Feldman I want to talk about something else, a very different situation, but also dramatic in a very different way. Jennifer, you've had a lot going on. Tell us what happened to you.
Jennifer Karen 2 weeks ago, I was in the house when lightning struck my house, and my house was on fire. And basically, it's standing, but everything inside of it burnt to the ground. So unfortunately, Like couches, paintings, all of that I don't really care about. But I have 2 kids. Every Christmas decoration, every Mother's Day gift, every painting they did with their hands, every Thanksgiving little turkey, all of that is gone.
Warren Feldman But everybody's okay, right?
Jennifer Karen Everybody's okay. I got out. My smoke detectors— I did a—
Warren Feldman You were the only one there?
Jennifer Karen I was the only one there. The smoke detectors went off as I searched through the house. Here's me thinking it's a problem to solve. I thought the power went out. So I'm looking to see how to turn off the smoke detectors until I smelled the smoke. And I thought, oh no. And then I ran out of the house and got— I called 911. And the very odd part of this is, as the firemen came, my daughter is in the fire academy right now. And she volunteers at the local fire. Department. And who came but all of her friends. And so they were there battling the blazes, the flames coming out of my house. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness, I do not want any of my daughter's friends to get hurt on this, right? For those who don't know, something like 75% of the fire departments in this country are volunteers. So just remember that next time you call call 911. They're not career firemen.
Warren Feldman Wow.
Jennifer Karen And the hard part was, you know, as business owners, 5 days later I had an annual staff retreat. I had 30 people coming, flying into Baltimore, and friends of mine said, cancel it. Well, as CEO, you can't cancel something like that, right? So I had to deal with the aftermath of, of trying to— I had jeans and flip-flops, as I walked it. I ran out of the house with the smoke. That's all I had left to my name. And in 5 more days, I had to put together— I mean, the SAFETRUIT was mostly put together, but the buck stops with you as a CEO. And so I had to come to the place and, and, you know, come to the hotel and come and talk, present my financials to the the team, you know, the CEO type stuff, inspire them to talk about the future and give them vision and hope. So in between talking to insurance adjusters, talking to my daughter, talking to my son, trying to buy clothes, trying to, you know, get anything I could in the meantime, it was— it's been a rough couple of weeks.
Warren Feldman Where are you staying?
Jennifer Karen We are staying at a friend's house right now, and we have a long-term rental coming up in the next few weeks. So, it's the interesting part too, from a business side, is if you're a remote company like we are, what your business insurance will cover versus what your home insurance will cover and where they cross over and where they don't. I'm sort of learning, learning some of that, just trying to figure out, navigate that path. I'm taking a lot of time off, and my leadership has been really stepping up. And people in the events industry and my clients have really been unbelievable to me, you know, sending me notes, sending me— they sent me Uber Eats gift cards. I mean, just great support from my community.
Warren Feldman Have you learned anything through this process that you wished you'd known before all this happened?
Jennifer Karen I don't know, Lauren. I think I'm still in the midst of this chaos, you know. I don't think yet. I think ask me in like 6 months.
Warren Feldman I will.
Jennifer Karen The one thing is, if you're a business owner, you have a couple pillars of equity for your retirement. One, hopefully you have some sort of 401 plan. 2, your house. And 3, your business. Well, when one of those— house goes up in flames, you start to really think about your retirement, right? And how much equity is in the business, because I'm hoping my insurance pays for everything, but who knows, right? And so you really have to— your business, you put your life's work into this, and you really hope that you'll eventually get the payout, right? And because the same thing with my house, my house was nearly paid off, nearly paid off, and we're so close to having it paid off with just a couple years, and now it's inflamed, it's smoking timber. So it's It's it's a hard thing to think about. Your financial security sometimes can go up.
Warren Feldman All right, well, my thanks to Mel Gravely, Jennifer Karen, and Laura Zander. As always, appreciate you guys sharing stories.