Bonus Episode: The Changing Face of the Yarn Industry

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman for many nining may still conjure an image of a grandmother in a rocking chair her cat's sleeping and her doilies taking shape in recent years however the quiet industry of tiny neighborhood yarn shops scattered across the US has become an unlikely cultural Battleground it's been divided by charges of racism and cultural appropriation that have erupted in a series of social media f fir storms prompting some owners to close sell or Rebrand their business it may seem surprising that such a quiet Pursuit could produce so much conflict but it's really not all that different from the fissures afflicting the country as a whole in this bonus episode we meet three women who are not content to stick to their knitting they are Adela culvin whose business Lola Bean yarn company is a prominent independent Dyer of yarn based in Grovetown Georgia gay GG glasby a leading yarn industry influencer whose signature color is orange and who is based in Cliffton New Jersey and Felicia Eve who owns string thing studio in Brooklyn New York one of the few blackowned yarn shops in the country the episode is titled the changing face of the yarn [Music] industry I want to start by going through a little bit of the background uh of Adella and gig and Felicia and kind of how they got where they are uh and then we'll we'll talk a little bit about what's going on in the industry why there is of all things a culture war in the yarn industry try to make some sense of that Adella let's start with you how did you discover knitting my nextto neighbor Bonnie she was a retired uh principal from Battle Creek Michigan my husband had to go to Afghanistan to teach and I was home by myself Miss Bonnie was aware of that fact and we happened to run into each other checking our mail and she looked over at me and she wanted to know how I was doing I'm fine I don't think you are she says why don't you come over for some coffee and uh I think we all have like those internal like biases and uh preconceived notions about people and I said you know to myself what do I have in common with a you know 70s something year old white re hired principal from Battle Creek Michigan but I guess I'll go right what else what else am I doing and I went over and I walked in and she had some of the most beautiful uh Afghans throws curtains um she she sewed uh just little like knickknacks and things all around her house and I asked her you know where where do you buy your your furnishings and she says buy she say I don't buy these things I make them what you made this and that and this she knit she crocheted she sewed she baked you named it she did it um and I I I I expressed interest I said I would love to learn how to do this and she gave me a crochet hook and one ball of white Red Heart yarn and she said read this little book practice with this yarn any questions you have you come knock on my door and that's how it started wow do you remember the first time you went into a yarn store by yourself boy do I and it's actually the the Catalyst or what started um at the time was a dullas crochet Cottage but is now Lola Bean yarn Co I was looking for my local yarn store and please let me say that um the store that I'm talking about is closed because we have a new shop and people you know you have super sloths online and people are like that has to be the shop she's talking about you know and they reached out and they're like please people are calling and they're they're saying I was mean to you and so the shop I am talking about is now closed I walked in with the intentions of buying some yarn um and as soon as I opened the door the uh person who was working in the shop looked me up and down and said her bathroom was for customers only and I turned around and I got in my car and I drove home it was so obvious that she saw you know a plus-sized black woman with natural hair and I think I had a hoodie onk and Converse and jeans and you know she made all of these assumptions based on those things and to her I couldn't possibly be there to purchase anything for crafting because Crafters don't look like I do and yet you kept going how did you wind up getting yarn well I did a lot of ordering online but I said you know I could probably die yarn myself um and you know you see people doing it or showing it so I'm like well if people around me are doing it maybe I can and I went on a YouTube University and I watched a couple of videos I grabbed myself some Kool-Aid packets and some cheap wool that I found and I dyed yarn and I put it in a crafting group I'm like look what I did today I was so excited looking back at that yarn now I'm like oh that was just awful but I put it in the crafting group and somebody commented and they said oh my gosh that yarn is beautiful how much would you charge for it and the light bulb you could probably like see it wait you'll pay me for this and that was all she wrote I I mean Full Speed Ahead equipment uh acid dies instead of Kool-Aid I mean I I wasted no time played no games whatsoever and um I just kept going you told us that you started under one name and then you rebranded why did you Rebrand your business the birth of my daughter for a long time uh I wasn't very active in terms of like showing like my face and talking about the person behind the brand and I brought this little girl into a world that was so chaotic and I said I want to leave this world a little better than it was when I came into it for her sake and in order to do that you got to show up you got to show up you got to tell your story um you have to let people know what's going on so that they can in effect help you to make these changes so it was definitely for you know my kids tell us the difference though uh initially it was called adela's adel's crochet Cottage Cottage and then you went to Lola Bean yarn company with a very different logo what was the thinking my first logo was was very much craft centered but it could have been a white person behind that brand it could have been you wouldn't know who was behind that brand whereas my new logo is a uh caricature uh of my daughter so it's a little black baby and I thought that that would be a wonderful way to uh show her have something for her as she gets older to see and be proud of but also for people who look like me and who look like her who walk into like these different yarn shops to see wait a minute there's a a black baby there's a black person there's somebody black here you know maybe not physically but represented through her yarn um and hopefully it would welcome people and let other people know that um black people we die yarn we're here we craft did that uh rebranding have an impact on your business huge impact first of all who doesn't love a baby like that was very smart right you know a baby come on babies they're they're perfect but also I was very intentional because you know sometimes it's hard to reach certain people but with a baby because everybody loves babies it's okay it's a black baby so this is a black woman but I mean I could have easily used like you know a a a black power fist or something else because babies are a little less threatening yes a little less threatening and um I might be biased but I think my kid is adorable like she's she's gorgeous for those who aren't familiar with the industry you're considered uh an independent Dyer I believe is the term what exactly does that mean and how does the business work it means my back is always hurting my shoulders are sore um what I do is I take natural fibers wool alpaca um Angora and I use different types of dyes and I add pigment and people then buy them and make things like you know that's not my yarn but the sweater Gigi has on is handdyed yarn do I need this change I we I was surprised I have to say I was surprised I was surprised yeah because most of G's wardrobe it feels like is L yeah weix don't go anywhere G up next people you know they they buy it and they then in turn uh make you know all types of Creations for the their you know their own uh personal use or for loved ones um so that's what that's what I do every day is it just you do you have employees I have a Sue speckler I call him my husband um the washer of the pans and uh for the most part you know every now and again when my kids want to make a couple bucks they'll come in and and help me out but um every SK of yarn that I have ever sold has only been died by me and has passed through these hands um my husband is a great support system you know if he if I need a labeler that day that's what he is if I need a pan washer that's what he is if I need somebody to sit next to me and tell jokes to keep me you know going you know throughout the day that's that's what he does um and he spends a lot of time with the kids because he works from home and his job isn't as physically demanding as mine so he'll do that part of it so that I'm able to go into the studio and uh do my work got it Gigi how about you how did you get into yarn and knitting mine is is um kind of sad I I I called 2012 my storm and in 2012 I lost a dad suddenly my mom suddenly and then my my job my 22 years job all at the same time and maybe a year or two prior to that I taught myself to knit um I had like most like Adela I started out with crochet I learned to crochet in camp summer camp as a kid you know I can make a chain I made a few blanket but it was no big deal uh knitting always seemed very um difficult to me because of the material that was created so I automatically knew that that wasn't something for me but I ran a call center for Verizon and we had yarn and I was like what is this and the little pattern was in the box and I'm like this is Greek so I went on YouTube and figured out the pattern and made my first little holy scarf and then I was done with it I'm one of them if you want me to do something tell me I can't and then get out of my way right so fast forward a friend was making a hat she was knitting it was beautiful and I was like can you make me one and she was like she gave me a list of materials to get sent me to Michaels I got my stuff I ran back I put it on her desk and she slid it back and I'm looking at her because she was on a conference call and she writes in the sticky she said no you're gonna do this and I'm like okay I can't do that she said you said you know how to knit I do but I can't do that so that day she taught me how to knit and around like I made an entire hat so she started me off on it but when I when my world fell apart I turned to knitting I tell people that I wrapped my heart in yarn and my yarn captured my tears my yarn didn't have any questions and I sat up and I knit at the same time I discovered Instagram I discovered that there was a world a community out there and I was just like wow you know it's funny people to this day that are like oh my God gig I said would you stop I used to make your patterns I used to chase behind you they're like but you're gigy uh no I'm just a Knitter like so but you're not just a Knitter tell us about being uh I guess the term that's usually used is influencer is that do you like that term is that what you call I don't I don't I what are you then I guess I do influence people's purchases influence their thought processes but the I think I know you do that g yeah I but you know what I don't like I think you know to say that somebody's an online influencer indicates that there's some sort of payment involved with what they're doing therefore taking away the the validity of what they're saying and doing and I am so not that I have turned down payment for things that I don't believe in right so I guess I don't like that term for the negative concept of it but Adela made me realize my influence someone called you a nit fluenc but I think it's my passion you know I get so excited to this very day when I do something when I get a color that I'm really a color a sh orange one of the other Shades that I love you know that's just me I'm not doing that because somebody is paying me to do it that's just who I am how did it happen how did you become uh so influential I have no idea like I I really I can't say that I set out to do that I've my one thing I can say that was in my mind's eye I always like I would watch and see people go to these different events that I had no idea existed and traveling even internationally to go to and I was like that would be the perfect job for me I would love to be paid to travel to all of these places I love having my camera I love recording stuff and bring it back to the people that don't have an opportunity to do those things but when I realized the power when I realize my influence is the first time that Adella died yarn for me she I put out a call I saw a pattern I wanted to make it and I said I need somebody to make me three different shades of orange and I think Adella was the first one she said take take that post down because I'm going to do it we argued about Speckles because at the time I wasn't big on Speckles but she was like okay I'm gonna do this she she did it she and I was like Adella you know how do I pay you nope only way I'm doing it if you allow me to dress you is is what her exact words were I want to dress you so got the yarn did a video because it was absolutely beautiful I made my pattern I went outside I took pictures and I posted the pictures and everybody went bananas I'm on her website I can't find The Yarn um okay um she kind of sort of only made this for me they were like GG but this she can't okay hold on y'all be quiet let me go over here and try to beg because at this point you know sh Adella is family to me now but then we were we didn't really know no know each other right so it was still a business transaction if you will and I'm like guys let me go talk to her and see so we talked and she said okay I'm going to do one pre-order I said okay 25 pre-orders later like I was sure she was never gonna die orange again but what people don't know and what I don't often say because I don't want to make Aela feel uncomfortable but it was in the midst of all that that I used to have a Etsy shop and I closed my shop I used to sell things that I made and I'm doing something and I hear the chich Ching which is somebody giving you money and PayPal and I'm like who's sending me money because I don't have anything for sale like I shut my Etsy down and I looked and it was a lumpsum from Adela something's wrong with this picture I got the yarn right why are you giving me money so I reached out to her and she said listen I sat down I talked to my husband she was like you don't understand the amount of money that I made because of you you don't know how much traffic you drove to me and it was her that made me realize that I was influencing the sales of orange yarn like I didn't and I was just being me and I'm still just being me and that's when I realized that there could be something in this now was I confidently going to companies and saying listen you need to dye some orange and give it to me no I wasn't because I didn't feel confident in that right I just was doing what I do the majority of the yarn that I had if it's not from I bought it right but then that quickly shifted companies quickly was like oh we need to put our yarn in gig's hands right so you know it I can't say that it was something that I actively pursued it just kind of happened and I give Adella the credit for that because she was the first one to say listen like and you know like she didn't send me $10 like she sent me money I'm like what hold on what is happening right so again you don't see many people that look like me doing this how many followers do you have now I'm close to 60 57 57,000 that's on Instagram that's Instagram yeah is there anybody else in the industry in that neighborhood individually like just like a singular person like me I don't know I don't I look at those that I inspired to be and like I look now I'm like wow I passed them like by Leaps and Bounds you know and I thought they were the thing but I think the difference between me and those that I aspir to be is something that you said in the title it started out with the knitting but it's more me than it is anything else so you get my Orange passion about whatever I'm thinking about feeling about you know so I think when I where I will take the influencer is I like to influence thoughts right on purpose so it has kind of shifted a little bit to that I think that what Gigi didn't say is the reason why she has the influence that she has because you see other influencers out there they're selling you shoes they selling you toilet paper they are selling you all types of things Gigi is is very intentional MH and she is very careful with what she shares with her audience because she respects them she respects their dollar and she's not trying to just sell them something quickly to make a buck and I think that's what sets her apart from a lot of the other influencers that you see out there you know on social media platforms yeah I will also add that she is very genuine as it's a human being and shares emotions and her feelings about things in a way that is so um refreshing and genuine and you get that through the screen you get that through the newsletters the blogs the posts and all of the ways that she touches our um our industry you get that from her and I always say to her sometimes when she you know posts a picture angry or laughing or whatever I'm like you give a lot of your you give a lot of yourself to us you know to people who may not necessarily be deserving of it but you know thank you for that so let me ask you this Gigi I correct me if I'm wrong but I sense that you may have been at times a little conflicted about your role especially in terms of whether you should get paid for what you do can you talk to me a little bit about how you've fought that through it was confliction more so than it was a low self-esteem um a lack of belief in s um basically not feeling like I deserved it right um you see how what Adella and the Fela did and they often do when they they see my little insecure Gigi pop her head up they push her aside and they step in and remind me I gotta learn to take my flowers I have to learn to appreciate she says that to us all the time all the time like like finger wagging kind of way does doesn't receive it that way I have been I can't tell you the number of times I have received a FaceTime with you know eyes really close to the screen like what did I tell you I'm like okay like again and right and there's been times when I did feel like I be like okay D I'm gonna tell them they gonna have to pay me and blah blah blah and I will lowball myff and the people that's offering me money we'll say no Gigi we think you deserve this we're we're offering you this I be like ad they said they gonna you know yeah because I'm still I'm still that insecure little girl you know that was always told I wasn't good enough I wasn't pretty enough and she still exist in me so yes I am getting paid yes you know I get paid to speak in person virtually like all of that is is my reality now but I still am always shocked I'll be like Adella she be like what I be like she like why are youed she she she be so excited and sometimes I have to remember like you see how she talks about that little girl and I have to remember that little girl because to me I'm like okay so they see what I've seen exactly exactly so she calls me she's like call Del you don't know such and such and they're gonna pay me and I'm like they should you know and then I have to remember you know that's that's that little girl inside of her that you know and and and you know we we we'll talk about it and I express like the joy and the happiness but on the inside I'm like I knew it all along all right Felicia your turn I'm eager to hear how you got into this business but let's start you had a couple of previous lives I mean I learned how to knit as a little girl and I at the time I had was blessed enough to to be old enough to remember both of my great-grandmothers and one taught me how to knit and one taught me how to crochet and at six or seven whenever it was it was a punishment as far as I was concerned because I meant I had to sit down and shut up and you know not do whatever I wanted to do and so um I did it and I learned and it like lived in some little spot in the back of my head so I tell people now when they meet me I'm like you know when I was a little girl I didn't say I wanted to grow up and own a yarn shop I grew up and I said I wanted to grow up and be a doctor and that was what I did I grew up I was a podiatrist I am a podiatrist I practiced for um 10 years between um Buffalo New New York and the DC Maryland area before I moved back to New York uh City probably 16 almost 17 years ago now and um even then I was still crocheting and I was still knitting mostly knitting so I did surgery and knitting I found helped me keep my dexterity up so when I wasn't knitting um when I wasn't doing surgery and after I started having kids and shifted my career from being a full-time doctor to being a full-time stay-at-home mom when I moved back here to New York knitting crafting became a big part of my daily living um when I was in in Maryland I met one of my best friends Beverly and her cousin Nikki um and I feel like as soon as you find another person who um knits or crochets or crafts like you you you suddenly have a Coven like it's real like you you become this little force and we did everything like we went to the festivals we traveled everywhere we went we found a yarn shop with everybody every yarn person the four of us the three of us on this screen and everybody else in the chat will tell you when you after you book your ticket in your hotel you figure out where the closest Yar shop is so we did all of that long story short my mom went in for what should have been an uncomplicated procedure and it was complicated and she never woke up so like GG my knitting held me together during that grieving period which was and continues to be um difficult you know it comes in waves the waves are not as as frequent as they used to be but they used to be pretty bad and I used to say to people like I would get up in the morning I would get my kids ready ready for school and I would get them out the door and then I would get on the couch and I would knit and cry and watch TV and maybe take a nap um and I did that for a while and my two girlfriends barever and Nikki are like you gotta get up off that couch and you've gotta do something like your mom would not want you sitting here like this I knew they were right and so one of my favorite local yard shops was closing unexpectedly for those in Brooklyn who know lacaita was closest to me here in Hill and they were closing I remember being on summer vacation and calling them up and saying like what do you mean and they were like somebody bought the building so we're out well one of my girlfriends saw the same email she didn't call the school she calls me it's like you need to call them and tell them you're gonna buy that yarn shop yes you need that yarn shop and I was just like well it's not like that it's not like they can't keep it it's just not going to be a yarn shop but the seed was planted I can remember speaking to a mom my oldest son and her son played um uh soccer and she said to me one day you know I remember was having a conversation like what our dream job was and what that entailed and she said um you described a place that I don't even know how to knit but I would want to go to that place like you should that's what you should be doing like that's what you should open and so she and I for a minute tried to do it together she was going to do like a baking kind of DIY thing and I was going to run the yarn shop eventually she dropped out she wasn't able to stay with it and I stuck with it and that's what eventually turned into strength thing Studio like it's not far from my home and has you know the feeling I wanted it was for it to feel like an extension of my living room you know of my kitchen and when you came in you know you were grab a plate you know like have a seat like my at the shop it's you have to touch everything when you come in you know like that's that's the rule um I intentionally didn't call it string things Studio yarn shop because I wanted it to be a space where all types of creatives would come in I didn't want you to feel like you had to come in and think that I was an expert on everything cuz certainly was not um but you should feel comfortable coming in and if you wanted something and we didn't have it I was happy to get it for you and get an expert to help you with that and over the almost five years it'll be five years in June um June 17th that we've been open um this incredible loving crazy Community has developed at this shop that is a family in so many ways um the family you choose f if I understand correctly that didn't just happen that was kind of a deliberate strategy on your part to involve the community and pull people in with different kinds of events that yard shops traditionally haven't done give give us a taste of that what did you do yeah like we have a backyard in my shop which also makes us unique and because of that I wanted it to to Really build a space that you know like I remember the spot in my neighborhood when I was supposed to be coming home for school and I knew nobody was home it was okay for me to go there because it was safe I wanted to be that spot in our neighbor neighborhood and where where our shop is in park soap is tons of kids if it's not three kids it's two dogs like it's just tons of space and and that type of community and we build that so we have popup shows we had a popup Cafe in the backyard last year you know we we do installations we invite other artists to come in not even just fiber artists but artists to come in and do things in our shop I've hosted um uh writing workshops you know where a organization that gave work shops rented out space and had their classes there weekly almost like six five out of six days out of the week they were come into the the shop and so many of those people who were not knits but were writers have come back and said I started knitting because this place just emotes so much energy and Good Vibes that I just felt like I needed to learn how to knit there was a girl she had to defend her dissertation and she was like I want to do it in your backyard like she literally brought her entire class her professor her family to sit in the backyard of my yarn shaft to defend your dissertation so it just feels really good to be to reserve that space in people's hearts in their lives as a Yar shop and be able to do that all right so we have just heard three really moving stories from three uh smart delightful passionate women which leads to the obvious question which is why is there a culture war in the yarn industry right now the yarn industry is a cross-section of the world so it is unrealistic to think that the the issues of the world would not find their way into the yarn industry right differences frighten people you know people who are different things that are different make people uncomfortable um I've experienced it in good and bad ways because I'm one of the few black on yarn shops I'm the only one in in the city of New York and only a few of us in the country right and I think so many people come in making assumptions like adulla says you know when people walk into the shop they assume my employees are the owners we went through that for a number of different years and you know it used to be my employees would be so offended on my behalf and I was just like I lived a life where I exist in that world all the time like you couldn't be the doctor you must be the nurse it couldn't you couldn't be the owner you're black like you couldn't live in Park Slope you're black you know like it's all of those assumptions that people make I agree there's just a uh like she said it's a a it's just a very tiny intersection of the world there's assumptions that are made about black people that people truly in their heart of hearts feel like is real right so you know I would explain situations that happened to me in yarn stores and my following would always say the same exact thing they didn't know it was you Gigi what does that mean I don't I don't get that right they saw black person and they instantly F why are you in my yarn shop like one you can't afford the yarn they're assuming right you know you you can't knit black people don't knit well something that Adela said I can tell you is 100% true is because as a black person you expect rejection we protect ourselves so those that were in the industry you didn't know they were in the industry because all you saw was the yarn or whatever they were Mak they didn't never did a picture of their hands or themselves for the fear of the backlash because you're black you're not supposed to be here so many people did it do it like I I have a board on Pinterest about you know knitting in black history like you can go back and find people knitting black people knitting but there was just this assumption that you know handy yard was more expensive black people are poor they can't afford it and apparently our hands don't work like everybody else cuz we can't possibly knit like that's just not a thing like I even had a situation where woman older woman they were complimenting me on something I had on and I said Thank you and they said where' you get it from and I said I made it it was an older woman and her daughter and when I say older woman like the woman could have been my auntie or you know my Elder and the lady put her hands on me and said no this and I said yes I made it she said that looks like it's knit it is I made it she was like oh because I didn't think you people and her daughter pulled her away right and the con urge was like and because I Liv I I used to travel for work so I was in that particular Hotel probably two months and he was like mortified he was a white man and he he was like he was looking at me and I said did that just happen happened he said it did I said did she just you people me he said she did and I'm so sorry he said I didn't know what to say I tried to break it up but you have the people that feel that way and for whatever reasons they keep it to themselves right but let something happen and like Adele and I often say The Great Divide happens so now right I'm gonna stand up for my side of the whatever and we we we stop being people makers Crafters cuz that's what we all have in common right and now it becomes the issue of race and then it just gets ugly but I think it's always been there I did exactly what G said when I first opened my shop it was only pictures of the shop it was only pictures of the yard I had no pictures and it was intentional but not for the reasons that I thought initially but maybe subconsciously it was and it was a white woman that says you know I never see you in any pictures of your shop I was like yeah that's not not important like I they people want to buy the yard she was like yeah no but you know you kind of kind of cute you should be in the pictures and you know we did this thing where it was like it became like you say the super slle there was there was something that happened in my backyard there was a documentary and there was a photograph taken and we posted it and we were in the photograph and people literally went through was like I know that person I know that person I I don't know her she's the owner of the shop and that was kind of like my outing you know I used the term culture War before and maybe War isn't the right word uh but there has been there's certainly been back and forth and friction you know people have had to Rebrand Shop people have closed shops bloggers have shut down uh their blogging uh you know a lot of it's been political um it's kind of come in waves there was a a period I guess maybe it was 2016 I know you guys don't know what I'm talking about there was a a cultural appropriation issue that was raised by a blogger who took a trip 20189 so there was a wave then there was another wave after the the murder of George Floyd and my understanding is that each of those waves has presented a complicated situation for for each of you I call them the black waves when something traumatic happens within the black community and you have this like Rush of people who want to genuinely support you and then those who want to exploit you so that they look and seem inclusive and diverse which puts you in the position of trying to figure out who's genuine and who's not I've been in situations where you know a shop owner has reached out to me because they want to carry my yarn and they'll say things like oh attached you'll see a donation I've made to the NAACP uh these are like real situations that I have like it's difficult it is really difficult to maneuver that it's painful I think when I say difficult you know people just think like from like a business standpoint but from a personal standpoint um it is extremely painful um to break your back to make a product that you feel is you know Superior um and to send it out to people who will then sell it but they don't care about the person who's doing all of this work so ultimately where that has put me today is I no longer wholesale well let's step back there for a second this there's been a more recent incident uh which remarkably was triggered by uh knit that's not what I was gonna say I was gonna say it was triggered in part by Vogue knitting putting Michelle Obama on the cover that was the trigger um but that's that's not even the the main point the the the focus of that was um basically the exploitation of black women and people not standing up for supporting and protecting black women was the bigger conversation that came from that um and because of that whole situation and the silence that was deafening from so many people who were making money off of my hard work and my product you know if you're going to carry products from Lola bean yarco and other black makers within this industry and you see that black women are coming under attack I'm going need you to stand up and support black women you might be placing in wholesale order but I can sell that retail in my shop I can give myself a raise and and make all the money right but this is a system to where we help each other you're a yarn shop I give you yarn you know I sell you yarn that you we we we keep each other afloat right support one another but when it comes to Black makers in this industry um we are treated differently still and we experience a lot of um unfairness and when those situations and and things happen when those things arise you have to speak up and if you're not going to speak up and if you're not going to defend these makers that you're carrying and making money off of then you don't deserve those products so I took all of my product back you had been selling wholesale to shops around the world world and you closed all down all of those sales I have a Que where people will give me half of the money up front so that I can secure their base and uh once it you know they're they come up on my schedule I Dy it they send me the rest of the money and then I ship out their yarn I gave it back $ 440 $50,000 in three days in deposits peace of mind is priceless amen me giving that money back was absolutely just the peace that I got from that and the heaviness that started to lift um I'd do it all over again if I had to because what I want to do now moving forward is I want to not that I wasn't thoroughly vetting um but I don't think I was doing enough vetting the people you were selling to yes I want to see where you stand I want to ask you hard questions I want to know that if you know black makers in this community are being mistreated or they're not getting the same opportunities and offers that white makers are getting I want to make sure you're going to say something you know I want to make sure that you are doing everything you can to help because black black makers in this community aren't asking for more than anybody I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions they think we want more we want more than you no we want the same what aren't you getting that others do get oh my goodness we can talk about um opportunities at uh events yarn events where you know I've gone to events where I didn't see a single black vendor and they're there right so you don't get those opportunities when you talk about influencers that don't black influencers that don't get paid the same as white influencers where they'll give G they'll give a white influencer you know oh $1,000 for a post and then they want to give the black influence you know a a sample here's a free sample you know things like that like there are so many different uh so many different ways that we are mistreated charging us for things that you know our white counterparts are not charged for because we might be newer right because you've never allowed Us in now you're allowing us in but then you're taking advantage of us as we're coming through the door so I need to make sure that the people that I am aligning myself with are going to help me level the playing field and if you're not going to help me level the playing field that's fine but please do not look for Lola Bean yarn coat yarn to be in your shops to be at your event Gigi can you tell us how how you think about that listen Adella calls it a wave there was sometime we said like this last time we said it was a tsunami because you would just get blown away by the number of new followers which is fine welcome but I always felt like I had to stand at my virtual door and say the only color I have for you was orange don't follow me because I'm black that's not fair okay and that it went from that to everybody wanted Gigi can you speak at that point I had never spoken anywhere speak about what what are you talking about can you do this can you do that GG we want and I didn't even know these people Adela can tell you I be like Adella who is this you ever heard of this Felicia what's this yarn I don't I don't even know these people and you know I would go like aella said vet I'll go on their page and the only thing black on the screen was the ink I'm like yeah no thank you you know I'm I'm not your token black Knitter right at that point I was very solid in the fact that my followers pay attention so if I go do something with company XYZ now my followers are going with me right now here you go you ain't really of of black people really but you need somebody to make you look like you are but on that same note right where I know for a fact that others influencers have been paid oh Gigi we can send you some free yarn I'm like do you know Adella coov I don't never need yarn the rest of my life if you want me you gonna have to pay for me right and and it and I'm I I confidently say that now because I not because I feel like I'm all of this but I know you would pay my white counter and you wouldn't even dare ask them without already having money in your pocket right so I get a lot of emails um Gigi we'll pay you you know $50 and we want to post in your feed we want a story can you write a blog what no thank you no thank you I should charge you for even reading this email no thank you right because I know the power of my audience clearly we have all seen the differences and how we're treated and that's why when we do things on our own right when I met Felicia and I met Adela again the love affairs with the three of us had not started but the first thing I said to Felicia I don't know if you know Adela coven but you need to meet her I said to Adella I don't know that you know this black woman in Brooklyn got a shop but we need to get that's the black right she a black do call me you get there you know in one space we say we want to be diverse and we want to be included and don't block us out but you want to block us out we could do things together ourselves right we have a mass of following on our own but we're not those people we love people we love makers whatever shape form or fashion you come in but we still get you know and it's getting better but it takes like how many times do we have to climb uphill a icy Hill on skates every time to make people see stop the first time we all met was at my at adella's first trunk show at my shop and we were like it's G to be three days long and we're gonna do X Y and Z and it was funny because a woman who worked for me and she was just like I don't think you understand like that this is like special like that this is even happening and I'm like it's Yar and they were like no like you got a black d a black influencer and a black yarn shop owner like that doesn't we we really weren't thinking that way we had no idea and we had no yarn by the end mid we were like I guess we just dancing tomorrow we gonna like I was like it was like a family reunion the backyard was packed for three days people were driving two hours away to get there it was just beautiful like it was really they drove for two days and you didn't have any yarn for them she made out the first like before the end of the first day it was gone I didn't even get some of the special died yarn I didn't even get any I didn't even get to put it aside we were putting it on the wall and people were walking in taking it out of our handing it out of our hands like I went to a I was like where's the bag she was like bag what I said was gone like she said it's said wait no but it's it's only been 3 hours like we got the rest of today tomorrow so I guess my point in sharing that is we're powerful on our own like we've we figured that out but we shouldn't have to be on our own right we shouldn't have to be separate in the industry that's for makers it doesn't say you got to be a certain race Creed uh Financial background in order to knit it's just knits and we shouldn't have to be not showing our pictures and that's why my feed people that don't know me they probably think like she full of herself nope I need you to know this this is a black corner of the orange world that you I need you to be clear in getting to know the three of you I have the sense that each of you has incredible potential to build the businesses that you are building and I'm not sure you're nearly as far along as uh you could or possibly should be um and I'm wondering I hope I'm not offending you by saying that um but I I'm curious how you think about it Adella let me start with you I know I talked to you over a year ago and you were all sold out for months and months to come and you still are why haven't you hired employees why aren't you making more yarn do you feel something is holding you back from doing that I think I'm a risk for some people right because I very much much say what I want when I want how I want um sometimes that's a good thing sometimes it's gotten me in hot water the bigger you get one it doesn't seem as personal to me and I really think that a lot of people who support Lola Bean yarn code do I dive nice Yarn yeah I the people say I do okay but I think they're here for me they are here for what I stand for that piece of that is what keeps people supporting me not necessarily just the yarn and I struggle with losing that I don't want to get so big that I lose that um that's one thing and then from like the purely business side of it um covid you know Co happened and not that it hurt me in any way because that was probably my best year ever when covid hit but um my family was living in what what is now my studio that was our home so I was working with my family there I didn't want to start bringing people in because my kids um and then you know somebody comes to work for Lola be Yaro and then when they leave they're going out maskless to the club at night with their friends you know it would there were just too many risks and unknowns and I wasn't comfortable um with taking those chances we've now separated the studio we now have you know the new house where we live and I work over there by myself so ultimately I do want to grow but I want to grow at a pace that works for me that I am comfortable with um that is safe and believe it or not I'm not braggadocious I try my hardest to stay humble I like to help people I I like to spread money around that I make but I think a lot of people would be very surprised if they saw the numbers now and what I do behind the scenes like people say don't you want to grow don't you want to grow and they have no idea how I am growing but that's not for everybody to see Gigi we've talked a little bit about what's holding you back uh some of the issues and the way uh you are treated as opposed to other influencers you do work a day job um is it your goal to be able to stop working that day job and be able to uh do your my dream job right yes I you know and and it's like a a comfort thing for me now because if I look at the dollars you know um Adella and felici can tell you I was shocked when I did my taxes last year you know because my tax lady was like um chick this is more than a side thing here what is happening right so because it comes and drips and drivs it's not a I get paid every week you know you get the security of working right and and in an environment like this I might get lump sums here and there right so it's that that security blanket the good part about my day job although yes I do have a traditional nine-to-five I work for a former boss like he was vice president at Verizon while I was there and as much as I'm he I am one of his biggest fans it's reciprocal right so when I was like um Bob I know I only get X amount of weeks for vacation however I'm supposed to be on a plane pretty much every month from February to October he was like do they have Wi-Fi where you're going I said yeah he said take your laptop with you I said I swear I love you you know so it's like there's really no big rush to get out of this job because I I can do it in my sleep and something that you said again you know the potential for the three of us to be bigger than what we are again you have that culture difference right it is assumed that white people go into business and are automatically successful and it's the opposite I know a lot of unsuccessful white business owners no yes I'm I I agree there do it again and they do and they right because they grow up thinking that I should have my own business they grow up thinking I should have my own home and if that's not something you grew up around is something that you saw you can't see yourself there you hear the term often representation matters right so you know my logo is probably when I really exploded it because other black people could see themselves knitting people would stop me if I had a shirt on or if I was carrying one of my bags where did you get that from and I'm like it's it's mine no no no where' you buy it no on my website because I you know I've never seen black people knitting and I'm like where were you looking you know so there's just those expectations that still are very powerful in our minds right yes you now you see more people in business and more people being successful more people making a lot more money and doing risky things but still even that you know the the stairs that we got to climb to get there where somebody else oh sure come on in we'll do whatever you want to do what you need money you you need a fund a grant here here here us we got to fill out a dissertation and have it you know notorized and sealed and God kiss it and well did he kiss it on a Tuesday or Wednesday because if it was Tuesday then we can't take this you there's so many different Hoops as a black person that we have to go through sometimes we just like ah I also think that for a long time when you talk about racism and white supremacy being embedded and ingrained um in the very fabric of this country the society the world that for so long black people were raised to be model employees white people were raised to be the owners and the bosses tell it we're now Breaking Free from that we're breaking free from those stereotypes um and people will see you and they that's why when they go to Felicia's shop she's not the owner the white girl who she hired is I've had people come to a Fiber Festival and literally push me out of my own booth to talk to the two white girls I had working in my booth because obviously they're the ders and the owners not the black girl they just pushed out of the way I get that that question that you ask like you know you could be so much bigger you could be um as a black woman i' I'm huge right because we don't do this I hear you I hear you Felicia you have a yarn shop in Park Slope in Brooklyn that's a prosperous neighborhood you have a shop that's been around for 5 years now that's an part of the community um and yet when I talked to you uh a little over a year ago you told me that you didn't really count on it to your shop to pay your rent my was you don't you don't say I want to retire you don't want to you don't say I'm G own a Yar shop so I can retire from being a Yar shop why not we're trying to change that right like we're trying to change that notion owning a brick-and mortar store is a completely different Beast than just in you know having a product to sell right you got rent you got overhead you got employees and you have to have employees because I I it's so funny I was talking to another small business owner who just opened her and her partner we're open we're open seven days a week and we're always in the shop or whatever and I told him I was like stop doing that like just stop because you're gonna you're gonna be sick like and I did it because I did it you know like it was like nobody else could be in there people walked in they wanted to see me like they wanted to come in and and people still want to come in and see me but I have learned over the five and a half years that it's okay for them to walk in and somebody else take care of them and you're supposed to hire people who think and act and and can and and view your spirit even though it is not you they can be your Ambassador in your space that is a requirement of the job right they work with me they understand what I what I do and how I welcome people in the shop and that is my expectation that the same welcome happen when I am not in the shop people come to Parks slope we become a destination we become a destination shop I can't tell you how many people when I come to New York City as soon as I can travel I'm coming to New York City and I'm coming to strink things Studio I want to come to your knit night I want to sit in your backyard I want to do that we have created a space and when I say we it's me and it's my community who who work along with me have created this space where people I don't care what color you are they want to come to I don't care man woman dog like I don't care what it is they want to come they want to hang out they want to you know they want to sit in the backyard they want to eat the bagels from across the street they want to do all of that because that's what we've created and and it took time to learn about that like having to rest and when to say no and you know to get back to where you put your money what companies that you choose to spend your money as a to to stock your store with like there have been brands that I have chosen I'm not going to buy from them anymore like there's one now that people constantly coming and asking me about and I'm like not really into the distributor anymore so I'm not really sure we're gonna carry this much longer so get it while you can you know and it took a while for me to get confident enough to do that and I think that comes with understanding that we're more than a yarn shop people can get yarn anywhere people could we can buy all buy yarn online from medella they don't have to come to strength thing Studio to buy the yarn she sold out she sold out right so they only when they sold out she so out they come and buy yarn from my store or whatever else I have in there but we are more than just a yarn store and it took me a minute to understand that why should be able to retire uh someday on what you're doing exactly we've talked about some of the negative aspects of what's happened in your industry and I'd like to finish with one that I think you see as a real positive one although it was a difficult moment and that's uh involves your store Felicia during covid when uh I believe your landlord slapped a sign on the door saying uh that if you weren't GNA be paying rent uh you would have to find some other place and you weren't sure what you were going to do and how you going to save the store I was on vacation I had degre finally gone on a vacation um with my family and then one of my customers one of my my shop Mas I call her sent me a text message like I just saw this on the the Gate of your job and it was a letter from an attorney's office with this blah blah in it I had been in conversation with my landlord about we need to renegotiate this rent like I've been closed for X number of months business is not the same and we had made an a verbal agreement about some different things but then he had decided he was going to go to an attorney and report that I owed him more rent than I actually did and slapped the letter on the front of the gate so it made people think when they brought by that I was not going to be open anymore had my personal business my personal address all this stuff on the tape to the front of my store while I'm on vacation which he knew I was on vacation and so it was the last few days and I was on the phone with um I think I text I was with it was Dela it was Gigi and it was Lewis from Brooklyn boy nits and I was texting them and they were like what are you talking about I text him a picture at a letter and everybody was hot to say the hot was was an understatement and they were like you could do so I was like no no let me just think about I can try to figure this out I can try to figure out how to make this work or maybe I just don't but then I got a FaceTime and all four screens like from all like three faces popped up were you doing a GoFundMe or what that's right it was like what do you mean you got to figure it out we just gonna do a gofund me I was like no no no no no we don't look and I was like look I gotta get dressed like I'm GNA get a shower and get dressed because I can do a live and I was like wait and they were like I said they were like all you have to do is say yes then move out our way just say yes and I was like but they were like but nothing just say yes and I said but I have to do ad was like I already have the I I wrote it all up while you're talking on FaceTime she was like it's already done all you have to do is give me this information Gigi was like I'm getting dressed put my face on so I can do it and Louis was like just send it to me so I can promote it I said well send it to me what do you want me to do they were like go to the beach go to the beach and sit down and enjoy yourself and enjoy your vacation and let us see what happened and that was like 11:30 12: a.m. 12:00 p.m. that morning and by 6:00 p.m. we had to close it because we had raised I think I needed like $177,000 or something like that this happened without you even telling your I told nobody on my followers at all it was all of their followers and people who follow them follow me were confused they're like what are you talking about and so by the end of the day we closed it at 6 o'clock because it was just getting embarrassing at that point and then when people discovered it and we going back trying to figure out how to give they couldn't give cuz it was closed so they were just sending money to PayPal like sending me PayPal money it wasn't just uh customers of yours or you know Knitters around the country you also heard from a lot of people in the industry right absolutely they were like you Ser you can't go and somebody says I hope you weren't planning on going anywhere because the The Village said no you can't go it chokes me up and I did my thing you my thank you video afterwards which I got through almost without crying I had to do it twice I did the second one I posted and I sent it to people and then that's when my and I posted it on my timeline because then all these people started following me and then my people were like but wait what happened like I don't understand so then it was this whole other wave of like we're buying gift certificates because there's no other way for us we're GNA buy gift certificates for you to just have this cash and it was the most beautiful expression of support that I have ever experienced so I know that this industry is not just a fluke I know that this industry is not like who does she think she is who do they think they are these brown people doing X I know that because I still get people who come up to me at different things or send me messages or show up at my Vogue knitting lives or come in the most craziest places I meet people who know who I am so it's like I know in a way that is so heartfelt that we I'm doing something good here and sometimes that doesn't always equate to cash so we would love for it to do so but I'm fortunate and blessed enough to be like sometimes you just need that feeling you just need to know have that acceptance that um what you're doing is significant to people and they showed that to me in a way that was over I'm still overwhelmed by it I really want to thank all of you Felicia Eve GG glaspie and Adela culvin this has been uh a terrific convers ation I've really enjoyed getting the opportunity to spend this time with [Music] you wait wait don't leave yet if you have a question or a comment that you'd like the 21 hats owners to address send it to me by replying to your Morning Report or by email at Lauren 21h hats.com that's L ren21 hats.com do it now before you forget and don't be afraid to tell Jay what you really think he can take it and if you got something out of this convers ation help us reach more business owners tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter subscribe to the morning report at 21h hats.com this episode was produced by Jess Theron founder of blank word Productions okay now you can leave thanks for listening everyone