Dashboard: Can Kamala Harris Win Over Small Businesses?

[Music] welcome to another 21 hats dashboard brought to you by our sponsor the great game of business I'm Lauren Feldman and I'm here with Jee marks welcome Jean hello Lauren how are you I'm doing great how are you doing doing good doing good enjoying the Jersey Shore excellent only a couple more weeks left of the summer Lauren it's unbelievable I know how does that happen it is a bummer I hate to admit this in public but I feel like a I'm like an elementary school kid I'm going to start crying about the end of summer in about five minutes and meanwhile like all these schools are going back to school like in the middle of August do you ever notice that like it's really weird like that would I know if you that way when you were a kid I always went to school like after Labor Day but now these schools are starting so earlier you know all right let's talk business sure so Jean as you know I try to avoid Politics as much as possible here and I want to try to stick to that uh but you've recently written a piece about uh KL Harris and her policies and uh how they affect small businesses and the democratic convention is this week um so I'd like to try to kind of thread the needle if we can talking about the issues that matter to business owners without necessarily waiting into the politics and the insanity um do you think we can do that I think we can and I know that you want to talk about this piece that I root for the hill just this past week right exactly exactly that piece was headlined how KL Harris can win over small businesses what give give us a sense of what you're thinking was first of all before we dig into the piece I do want to say that um you you actually inspired this piece Lauren you did wow can you believe that not because of your undying love and Devotion to kamla Harris of course not but because you said to me it was it was either last week or a couple weeks ago you made the comment to me that um you you know you would like you you would you would enjoy more me giving my opinions on how things can be improved like not just bitching and moaning about stuff which I have been doing more lately and more you know more more sort of positive and like making more like you know whatever and I and I thought about that long and hard and you're you were absolutely right I know it was a rare occasion but you were absolutely right and I I thought I thought you know and I've been doing this now I mean the past few pieces I've been writing I've been thinking to myself like all right instead of like just complaining let me talk about it so KLA Harris well let me just say I'm honored by that I appreciate it it doesn't mean I'm not going to try to pick the piece apart as much as I can course yeah I'm not trying to BU you up or anything I'm just telling you like you you really were the impetus because I wrote this like actually two weeks ago and then it just got published this week and uh so you know and and I also want to be on you know on record I mean l you one thing that I love about this podcast is that we can be completely transparent you know I am a registered Republican right now okay um I've always been um I have voted for the last three Democratic I think the last Republican president I actually voted for uh was was Bush believe it no it was Romney uh when he went against uh when he went against Obama um I I have to also just full transparency I've been skewing towards Trump this year um I just Again full transparency taxes is a big issue to me um frankly Israel is also a big issue to me I I just want you listeners to know what the context is coming from but when when when Harris gets you know as she's going to be the presumptive nominee um I did think to myself I say like you know how could she win me over um you know as somebody who's kind of leaning towards Trump as a moderate Republican what could she do now I want to stay away from the social issues like you said let's keep it business um so what from the business side could she do that would really make me like you know like this maybe I will vote for her if she were to do some of these things and that was the impetus for writing this column I just I wanted to get that out there does that make sense uh yeah I didn't think we were going to get into doesn't make sense it makes sense I didn't think we were going to get into who we were actually leaning to or thinking about voting for but um you know good for you transparency is a good thing hey Lauren you're the uh you're the one that that has always urged full transparency on this conversation so this is a full transparent you know conversation so um so I looked at at at Harris and I looked at you know she's going against Trump and and there are certain things that um I do think that she um she could do that um would really have a big impact on me so let me go through a couple uh I don't know when you want if you want to stop me after each one we talked a lot about taxes before so we don't have to you know beat a dead horse on that but I have you know said on this podcast how uh you know if if the tax cuts and job acts of 2017 expires it will have a significant impact on both individuals and small businesses uh including my business um where I could see my taxes go up somewhere around 20% um if all these Provisions expire and one of the things that I feel um you know a you know Harris could do is maybe she does look at that and and she Cherry picks maybe okay I know that the Democrats you you they want to let this this legislation expire um so they can increase taxes on the wealthy and go after uh you know you taxpayers that aren't paying their taxes and all of that but but maybe just maybe um she could pull a provision like say the qualified business income tax credit which is a huge sorry deduction which huge deduction that's part of the tax cuts and job XS that's for the pass through businesses like mine where you know whenever we make in our business um we can immediately deduct 20% of that income before the income hits my personal tax return so if I made $1,000 this year um $800 gets taxed you know the other you know $200 does not that's a huge tax deduction and that goes away in 2025 and that impacts a lot of small businesses so my thought you know one thing I that would really you know turned my head a bit as if Harris were to step up and be like yeah we are going to let this expire however I do support continuing that one provision or uh make even making it permanent so that was one thing Lauren I don't know if you have any comments on that you know we have talked about this before so I don't want to go into it too deep the the only thing I would say is we we actually agree on this I hope that that I I mean I like your suggestion that she cherry pick and that she focus on the items that would affect small businesses and this one in particular I I would point out I mean I think there there is a discussion that that doesn't get had there a lot which is that that 20% deduction you're talking about is obviously most beneficial to the most successful business owners um I don't know what percentage that is of business owners but it's probably a you know fairly small percentage you you you referred in your piece to how a lot of businesses are struggling right now and obviously if you're not making money you're you're not getting that deduction um so you know I do think there might even be ways to improve that so that more Ben more businesses benefit from the money that's not going to the to the treasury yeah when I say struggling I don't mean they're they're unprofitable I think a lot of businesses actually are profitable maybe they could be more profitable or not you know or maybe they're not as profitable as before uh we're all challenged we're all struggling you know that that that goes without saying but I think for any business making a profit this is a you know this is a you know a significant you know deduction for them um particular obviously the more you make the bigger the deduction and the more valuable it is to you yeah correct but the assumption is that you're making money and you know that's what the case is but anyway that that that is one you know that that is definitely one provision one tax move she could make that would really you know you know cause my head to turn that's that's one thing okay the other has to do with regulations um you know again we've talked as well on this podcast and you know over the past three years you know the Biden Administration has really through its agencies implemented a lot of regulations on worker classifications and overtime rules and you know OSHA rules and FTC non-competes and you know things like that which um which cost they're across the board they don't really they're for all businesses and I'm like you know if you know if if Harris you know were to come out and say you know we're going to make these regulations you know only apply to businesses with more than a certain number of employees for example or over a certain size in other words excluding small businesses from some of these things I think that would go a long way you know I think that would that would you know I mean obviously big companies can afford to pay more for overtime or afford to deal with worker classification making more people employees um so I I thought revisiting those regulations and adjusting them for small businesses I think also would be a very positive step that could help her win some votes if I may suggest another thing for for you to put on your to-do list I would love to see you write a piece about regulations that really goes into the ones that you think are most impactful and what could be done to make them more palatable to businesses so for example yeah I'm not sure which regulations apply to all business one businesses and which ones uh you know have a carve out for businesses with fewer than a certain number of employees you probably know all that stuff I think it would be really interesting to see a piece that really breaks it down because so much of what you read about regulations is kind of a blanket they're either all good or all terrible yeah no it's good it's a good idea and that is I mean for example I could I speak what what hits me the most is the worker classification one Lauren you know because my business we use a lot of independent contractors and they're really on the gry line as to whether or not they should be employees or not and um you know so and that this this Reg applies to everybody to businesses of all sizes so you're right I mean I could I could take that as a uh as a topic and talk not only how that impacts business owners that have employees and contractors but also Freelancers uh because there are many that that don't want to be contract you know employees of companies so fair enough that's that that's also a good point so let me um let me talk about some more okay um please yeah uh you know you we had talk before we went on the air and I'm going to jump down a little bit of my column about succession planning you know um there is uh you know the average age of the US small business owner now is over the age of 55 I mean you know many of my clients are talking about succession planning and um there are there are definitely some issues that would be created by um Harris becoming president again this is assuming she supports all of uh President Biden's tax proposed tax policies um you know one would be you know estate tax rates the exemption for assets would be dropped significantly from what they are now so potentially more assets could be could be taxed that way uh number two is uh there's President Biden's always supported a change in What's called the Step Up provision of assets meaning that um you know it's it's it without getting into the weeds it's how capital gains are recorded on assets you step up the value uh when when when they're passed on or when they're transacted so that um you you know it reduces the gain at a certain point um or increases the gain at one point and then reduces it going forward that has a negative impact on succession planning um capital gains rates themselves have been proposed to increase uh President Biden's policies would increase capital gains to as much as like 44% you know Lauren um on some high earners you know that that could be some business owners um and then you know there's a lot you know there there's esops there was some really fantastic um tax advantages for Employee Stock ownership plans for employers that um sell to their employees so you know my thoughts are you know geez succession planning is a real hot button for a lot of business owners if you know if if you know Harris were to look at those Provisions capital gains Step Up Provisions estate tax rates um and maybe qualify them more so that they were more they were less harmful to business owners selling their their businesses um if she were to take another look at you know Employee Stock ownership plans and maybe consider and again I I would have some suggestions for making them even more attractive for businesses to sell to their employees um I think a lot of that stuff would really attract a lot of business owners to her because it's become such a such a big issue and that's another topic I'm you know we talked about this before we start a recording but I'm going to I I want to dig into that further and write about it because I think there's a lot that she could be doing same thing with President you know potentially Trump if he's elected but no one seems to talk about this right now and I think and it's a big issue for small businesses well you know in some ways for many it's the biggest and I think there there's one aspect of it that I didn't hear you address directly although you you may have been thinking of it and and that's you know with the silver tsunami right now there are a lot of businesses that are almost can't be sold or or literally cannot be sold they're businesses where the owner is too much a part of the day-to-day operation um or you know there are all sorts of reasons I wonder if there isn't something that could be done to try to create incentives for those businesses to be passed on to an employee not necessarily through the complicated means of an ESOP which is expensive and bureaucratic but something simpler that could save some of these businesses from just disappearing have you thought about that at all yeah it's really really great topic I mean the as you know I speak to a lot of Industry groups a lot of the members of these groups come from the fruited plane you know between New York and San Francisco you're running a gasket distribut you know distributor ship or a uh you know you a process equipment manufacturing company um somewhere in Arkansas or you know Iowa uh you know they're they're not exactly sexy and they're definitely not super attractive and um you're right that improving you know giving you the ability to sell to your employees having more more tax incentives to do that would be one thing um making more tax incentives available to larger companies in the industry to buy these companies um you know at a at a better and more fair price uh instead of having a fire sale could also um be something that I think would be of real interest as long as they retain jobs for example so I think there's a lot's a lot of things that can be done in that area and um I'll be giving it more thought making some more concrete suggestions but it's a hot area and I think that that would again getting back to the topic of this column what what would it take for you know you know Harris to really win over you know small business owners and we've just talked about a few of the things I think would really make a difference at least to me all right so let me challenge you on another topic that you referred to um in your piece and that's immigration uh you kind of put it on kamla Harris to I think your words were to sort this out with Congress to to figure out a solution to a problem that's been around for way too long obviously our system doesn't work and we've been unable to solve that it really should be solved I I guess a couple of things one I think you could have mentioned that there was a deal in place that uh Democrats were behind and that Biden was ready to sign and that a lot of Republicans thought was the best deal they could ever hope for in terms of taking you know strong measures to take action on the border and stop the flow of undocumented um people into this country I think you could have mentioned that and I think it's worth noting that you know it it's not completely up to the next president they're you know they're two two sides to this equation yeah I mean listen I mean I I think about you know like the school shooting in Massachusetts when Obama was President you know and then Obama introduced like you know you know legislation to like cut back on the sale of firearms and you know it it it didn't pass and everybody was like you got to be kidding me right I mean that's the same thing with the immigration you're right there is there was a deals a couple years ago um and and it no it was a summer yeah oh right they been working on it was Donald Trump who blew it up um you know if you're comparing the two the two potential presidents one of them was in favor of a deal that could have gone a long way to solving this problem the other one blew it up I hear you and and I think that um you know obviously it's highly politicized and not you know the easiest issue to solve but you know what Lauren like so is civil rights you know back in the 60s you know I mean civil rights legislation was stalled all during the Kennedy administration until Johnson became president was able to to to move it forward it seemed like at the time that the country would never pass the civil rights legislation you wound up doing it um as well as Social Security and Medicare you know back in 1965 these are huge massive issues immigration is a huge issue uh I know for a fact uh I for a fact when I when I again travel around the country and speak to thousands of people because we talk about these issues um immigration is a bipart is an issue and people agree that it needs to be fixed um and I and I do think there's a lot of theater a lot of political theater going on that is getting in the way of doing this I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not blaming Harris or saying like you need to do this or you fail but I think it's the role of a president to to to try and bring both parties together and have some sort of a compromise and um and get something passed and um you know I I I and the reason why I say that is because if she were to say this is going to be my biggest priority is to get an immigration deal done it's top of the list and yes I will cave on certain things for my Republican counterparts in Congress um and I will hold to these certain things and uh you know you she makes it a priority that's what presidents do and and I only say that because I have so many clients and so many people that are business owners that are uh that are begging for a solution to immigration there's a dark side of immigration you know Lauren I mean there are I mean I have I've bookmarked a few articles just recently of you know businesses that got caught with illegal immigrants you know they hire these people they treat them like they don't pay them very well and and not only that then they underpriced their services so law-abiding businesses can't even you know win deals because they get out priced by people that are you know hiring illegals you know so it it's a problem for businesses let alone the fact that we can't find enough workers so again it's a small business issue and I would love to see a president I'd love to see her step up and say we're we're we are going to get this done compromise or not we're going to get it done I'd like to hear that you I I do think something that gets lost in this conversation a lot is especially if you're going to use the term illegal immigrants I mean we are talking uh about human beings here and that's why a lot of people have moved to referring to undocumented workers as as the term instead but I also think it's worth noting that you know Trump's policy is to remove all undocumented people and that's 12 million people which would have a huge impact on small business businesses and the economy and the country as a whole um but we're talking about business issues here you know what that would do to the labor force and it's not just they're undoc if they're undocumented the theory is they shouldn't be in the labor force right well that may be your theory but you know keep in mind there are people who've been here undocumented for decades and some of them came at a time when that really wasn't a problem in fact they were encouraged they were welcomed people thought they were the only ones who were who would be willing to to do certain jobs and you know some of them were seasonal some of them stayed Beyond uh you know the time that they were supposed to whatever many of them have been here for many many years uh putting down Roots raising families paying taxes not getting Social Security if we if we just uprooted all of them because we think they're here because we think they're illegals um that's going to have a huge impact and you know you can talk about it from a humanitarian standpoint but if we just even just talk about it from a business standpoint you know you're talking about I don't know what is that 4% of the population 12 million people we we just saw what happened with the great resignation and after the pandemic when you don't have people rushing back into the to the workforce what that can do I I I think that's a huge issue that I don't necessarily see you addressing when you're right comparing candidates and and writing about this uh this coming election well no not not in the not in the 800 words that I'm allowed can I address like an issue like that and it does certainly deserve its own column I mean also Lauren I mean listen you know like all issues social and business there are two sides to every opinion and you you you know we can't judge and we can't um be intolerant we can't be intolerant of people that have a different point of view um you know your your points of view on the illegal immigrants the fact that it's it's a longtime issue and they're humans in I see you're very comfortable with that term still aren't you sorry they undocumented I I feel that you know I I think your your your point of view is very very well Justified but I think you also have to um you you you have to have respect for other people's point of view that say like if they're here illegal they're illegal like why even have laws if if they're here illegal and which gets back to which really gets back to the column that I wrote and and Harris which is you know short of deporting everybody and I know that is what Trump wants to do um or short of keeping everybody here illegally um because they're breaking the law um the law needs to be fixed and changed and that's what our politicians are supposed to be doing which gets me back to Harris and saying that we need a leader in the White House who will get the a new law done change the existing law and figure out a solution with these undocumented people no not everybody is going to be happy with the solution but we need a solution because right now there is none and that I think is what we're looking for for a leader and I think if we heard a leader say that um I think it would make a big difference to a lot of small business owners I agree with you just sitting there and deporting 12 million people is an extreme you know is an extreme you know point of view but then again letting 12 million people legal people breaking the law who shouldn't be here just live here but keep in mind again a lot of those people weren't breaking the law when they came here and you know well if they weren't breaking the law why don't why aren't they documented well because the system is broken and they they many decades ago they were encouraged to come they've you know they're not out murdering people despite what we sometimes hear I know you're not you're not but that is part of the conversation at large I'm saying humans these are families with children and you know I I get it you pick them up terrible let me address one issue that I think doesn't get enough attention because business owners can't talk about it but at least not publicly I've talked to many privately I bet this is true for many of your clients as well um they have people who are undocumented who have been working with them for 10 20 years they are very valued employees they've been incredi loyal and hardworking and everybody the the business owners have actually done everything right they are not breaking the law and when when when these people came to to work for them there was no e verify they weren't told to get rid of them eifi came into an existence but you know I I've talked to owners who showed me the paperwork they they get reports from the federal government saying there isn't a match on social security numbers there's something going on here but they are told specifically that they are not supposed to take any action because of this so you have an owner who has a situation where they have these really valuable employees who are part of the you know have been part of the business for decades what are they supposed to do it's a really tough situation that I think has more Nuance Than People appreciate in part because those business owners can't talk about it without calling attention to the fact that they're employing people who are undocumented which could put those people at risk I mean Lauren you know a handful of times I've I've worked with clients who have discovered they have undocumented people working for them good people good workers but undocumented and in every single one of those cases um they had to let them go you know and that was that and some in some of those cases was all my advice I mean you know as good as these people are you if they're undocumented why did you feel they had to be let go because they're breaking the law as an employer I mean they they are literally breaking the law and they could be subject to not only Federal but State you know finds if if if their competitors found out they were they were doing something like this or other family members they could be reported to you know to ins you know it's a huge risk for a business owner and then none of my clients wanted to see themselves showing up on some online news site saying that they were hiring illegal or undocumented immigrants in their business they're I mean they're just they're breaking if they're not documented Lauren they don't have a green card they're not allowed to work it's breaking the law and and what I don't understand your point of view is that like where does where do you draw the line like why have any laws at all why do we have laws against you know speeding or laws against killing people I mean let's have no laws at all if we can just break them we have to have laws and we have to abide by them wait wait wait a second you're you've told us you're considering voting for Donald Trump I mean you're you're taking an extreme position about breaking the law here when it's a situation that has has has existed for decades and has been a problem that hasn't been solved and through no fault of the business owners and no fault necessarily of the employees by reason for leing towards um Trump um you know has to do with two big issues that are the most important to me um he both personally and as a public policy figure uh represents you know many things that I don't agree with and I'll never agree with any candidates positions on everything but on the two most important things for me um we are in agreement and that is uh what is driving me towards leaning in his Direction so to say that I'm fully in agreement with his position to deport 12 M million illegal immigrants um is incorrect I'm not just because I vote no I didn't say that I said that he's had some issues with the law and if you're saying that there's a bright line that if anybody breaks any law then we should there why do we even have laws I think that would be an issue and by the way by the way you you talked about business owners that's way down on my list on priorities but when you say he has issues with the law uh what because he's he's a felon right now of his 34 counts that he was well that he's also not allowed to operate a business in the state of New York I mean again and like I said when I list like my top 10 things that that that impact me that I really care about it's not on that list it's just you have to choose what's what's important you know where you you have you have your priority well but you also you mentioned the thing about business owners not wanting to show up in stories saying that they hire undocumented workers that's happened to Donald Trump numerous times too you know yeah but I don't I don't see the the connection to me the connection is if we're talking about immigration and getting back to the hill piece um some political leader whether it's Trump or Harris and in this piece it's about Harris needs to take a stand and say we are going to get an immigration Bill done and it's going to take you know a lot of compromise to do but there needs to be a path for citizenship I don't think that we should be deporting 12 million people but at the same time were you okay with the bill that they did get done yeah it was definitely a I would have I would have supported that bill it was definitely a large step in the right direction although I didn't agree with all the provisions of it and that's again I I don't remember the specifics so I can't get into the weeds as to what I didn't agree with but I remember not agreeing with it all but overall I was in agreement with it I I think that I think more in that we need something do you know what I mean like you know clearly we're like in a situation where we have a very broken system and whatever is going to be passed is not going to be loved by everyone but we need a new immigration bill that business owners can turn to and say listen this is what the law is this is what I need to do to abide by the law so it's clear for me so then I can go and run my business and right now when you have a law that says you've got uh you know undocumented citizens or undocumented people working for you you're breaking the law but then like you said you've got other parts of the government telling you no it's okay don't do anything at all that creates uncertainty for a business owner who needs that you know we don't you know we we need more clarity as to what the immigration rules are and right now we don't have that and I would be supporting Harris more if she were to step up and say this is what I'm going to do about immigration and that makes sense to me I would just add if you look at the history of these people the the candidates and their positions and what's transpired over you know recent months you can come to your own conclusion right now as to which side is more likely to actually move for a meaningful resolution to this problem yeah it's true I mean but Harris when it comes to immigration though um there's a difference between taking a stand on where what you'd like it to be and explaining how you're going to get there you know and unfortunately like we saw this summer when when the immigration bill was shot down um it it needs more than that from our from our leaders whoever our our president is and it also needs flexibility and the ability to compromise um so I you know I understand people can propose their immigration stand their policies um I'm Mo most interested in if that's your policy how do you plan on actually getting there and that's what I'd like to hear we still friends we are always friends dude all right that's what I wanted to hear uh what are you working on Jean what should we look for this week um I am going to be writing um another AI piece um about chat GPT and all the things that have happened and also um a piece I'm going to wrate for the hill talk about politics um you know there there are a lot of Wall Street investors and big money investors that support you know Harris and you would think that goes against the common convention you know like why would these rich dudes be supporting you know you know a Harris Administration who says she's going to be taxing the rich and they have good reasons for doing it and I want to write for the hill like why you know why there are you know many people on Wall Street who do support her so that's another piece I'm going to work on that's also true in Silicon Valley interesting it is it is and it is you would be like why would they support her you know I mean seems like she's Pro worker and you know and you know tax the wealthy and you know all you know why would the wealthy support a candidate like that but there's there's other reasons why that I'll I'll dig into well I felt like we had to do this at some point and I thought this was a good time to do it I'm hoping we're not going to come back back to this topic for a little while though yeah I don't know I mean I think it's fun to you know it it's fun to talk about it's really important to talk about it'd be interesting to get feedback you know you know from your community as well where their points of view are and and to discuss you know those you know those points of view you know what I mean y um and I do think that um the elections are so important to business owners uh this year Al and that I I don't think we should be ignoring them I don't think we should be having conversations of pretending it's not happening I think we should be talking about it um and I think the best part about this conversation is clearly I lean you know to the right and you lean to the left and I think it's good and yet we both are friends and we are both have the interest of business owners so I think it's you know I don't think you you a better way to have a conversation than for you and I to talk about this stuff I agree Gan marks is a CPA who writes weekly on small business for the guardian the hill the Philadelphia inquire the Washington Times the Chicago Daily Herald Forbes an entrepreneur you can also hear him on ABC radio's eye on the world with John Bachelor Jean hosts two small business podcasts with paychecks Corporation and the Hartford this episode was brought to you by the great game of business which helps businesses use an open book management system to help build healthier companies you can learn more at Great game.com sl21 hats thank you Jean thank you Lauren we'll see you next week sounds good take care