Dashboard: Gene Marks Tries a Digital Marketing Test

[Music] welcome to another 21 hats dashboard brought to you by our sponsor the great game of business I'm Lauren Feldman I'm here with Gene marks welcome Jean hello Lauren great to have you here Jean you wrote a piece recently in which you described your own kind of Adventures in digital marketing it was really interesting piece can you tell us what you did yeah so this is a piece I wrote for the guardian usually comes out on Sunday but my editor liked it so much he put it out during the week which and and he was right like no no I did I mean I got like a lot of feedback by email and also online it's a great piece I appreciate that it's it was just a real life piece I mean um so I mean you know as you know and people listening know you know my company sells CRM software so always looking for leads uh and I'm like hey you know I'm active on Twitter you know I have a lot of followers on Twitter I'm like you know I like Twitter that's another conversation for another day Jean you have 126,000 followers yeah yeah yeah I don't know how many of those are Bots we'll get back to that soon that's only 123,000 more than I have yeah but like I said I don't even know how many of those are actually real but okay F whatever um you know it's good you know I I I get a lot of news from Twitter I got I'm only saying this because I'm about to [ __ ] on Twitter but okay so an X excuse me so you but I I get a lot of news I laugh a lot I follow some funny accounts you know and I I engage with some people on I'm good with Twitter I really am X whatever so I'm like hey you know what you know you know uh uh there there's an audience out there I think that would I I wrote a book okay and it was it's a it's a it's a book on CRM um it's a compilation of my Forbes columns and other material and it's basically for anybody that's looking to buy a CRM or just wants to use your CRM better so it's on my website it's great I created a special landing page for it um and I haven't done anything with it yet uh just starting to Market it and I'm like you know hey man like there's an audience on Twitter that would probably like to read this book I think so let's see so when you post something on x/ Twitter um it tells you what you like to promote this post and this time I'm like sure let's give it a shot see how it is so I figure off you know I'll I'll you know I'll bet 50 bucks and see how we do now literally when you create a promoted post it asks you what's the objective of the post is it to have more engagement or to have more followers or or to click on a link to go to your websites to have a website visit and that was me Lauren I'm like hey yeah I'm G to I want to click on a link so I had a nice little graph post I had a link to the the the specific landing page for X that I created uh because you got to track these things um you know with the URL hey you know if you're interested in using your CRM system better or researching CRM this book might help great so I post it um over it was a five day 10 bucks a day total of $50 clearly not you know a big deal right however um X Twitter gave me it gives you metrics for the post it said like 29,000 people viewed this post which is like I don't even know what that means whatever and I don't care CU I'm looking for leads I don't really care if a billion people viewed this post it's that's irrelevant to me I don't care if people engage with the post to be honest I mean I I just want leads I want people to click on the link in the post like X promised and go to my page and download the book because it's a potential lead for me so uh Twitter X said to me hey you had I mean there was I forget the exact number but it was almost 400 link clicks on my on on the link in my P 400 Lauren and I'm like holy [ __ ] this is great I mean you know I me yeah and I'm like really if it was like a third of that I would have been thrilled a quarter of that 100 you know clicks I mean people download that's like a 100 leads this is amazing except for one thing I wasn't getting any downloads of the book that's odd I mean I mean okay maybe it's you know it's not uh you know Jeffrey Archer here maybe I'm dating Myself by saying that but you know Stephen King but you would think if 400 people clicked on the link right you would get you I don't know you know 50 downloads I don't know what that number would be but something anyway nothing none zero like that's odd so then I went on Google analytics and I looked at that landing page the specific page that was referenced in the you know in the promoted you know post and uh it had less than 10 views of that page 10 views and I couldn't even tell if they came from from extra Twitter by the way I you know I it gives you the source but it wasn't telling me that extra Twitter was the source of this and I'm like I I don't get it I I I like X is telling me that like almost 400 people clicked on this link and yet my landing page is basically showing close to zero views like where is that disconnect I don't get it and what I also don't get Lauren like this is what I wrote about Guardian like I give Twitter and it's not just Twitter X it's not it's Facebook it's Google ads you give them your money and and then they they charge you based on the clicks but they tell you how many clicks it got you know so it's like X in Twitter saying like hey Jean guess what you you we you click we got 400 clicks that we'll take your money now you know and I'm like I don't how do I know you got 400 click so I couldn't figure that out and then I asked some social media experts who by the way there's no such thing as a social media expert because they're all [ __ ] clueless about this whole Space anyway and they you but the the common answer that I get is like well clearly there's a lot of bots you got you bots were clicking on the link and I'm like okay so that's my problem I mean like there's bots on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or Google ads like fair enough but like you you took my money Twitter let me ask you about that go ahead if a bot clicks on a link doesn't that show up as a visit to your landing page even if it's a bot why wouldn't that show up I don't know I don't think so I think it's a bot that clicked on a link and by the way why is a bot clicking on a how does a bot even click on a link I don't even understand how that works either is it literally like a robot with a mouse in front of it just click click clicking all I don't know but right I mean you would think if it clicked on the link now maybe because I you know one social media expert told me like well they click but then by the time your you the page loads they've moved on somewhere else cuz it's all super fast and it's all whatever do you know what I mean so it doesn't count as a view of the page you know okay that Mak sense I guess um but you know what no it doesn't make sense Lauren none of this Mak sense none of this is nonsensical I'm trying to understand where the discrepancy is did those clicks occur or not and um I guess we'll never know I don't know I don't know and and you know what I do know I I think there's some funny business going on and I think there's a lot of small businesses that like like piss away a lot of money on Google ads and Twitter X promotions and Facebook ads whatever and they're they have the same problem how do I know this because a bunch of people have emailed me separately or reached out to me online on Twitter by the way and said you know yeah this is like you know i' I've had the same problem you're absolutely you you're absolutely like this is not like a thing so then like does it can you succeed with online ads yeah I'm I'm sure you can I mean I'm sure you can you know write creative stuff but my guess is is that it's all about the money Lauren that's my guess I mean if I were to spend a million dollars on a promoted you post that would probably get the attention of the Wizards behind the curtain at Twitter and and they would be like oh we should make sure that this guy's getting spent a million bucks with us we we want to make sure he's getting some clicks you know but I just spend 50 bucks they took the money they start buying the book themselves yeah they right they would they would buy the book themselves let me tell you something they'd be a lot better off for it as well because it's a very informative book um but no they just took the money they bought a couple of old Fashions with it and uh and then they had a laugh on Gene marks and that's what happened I'm convinced have you run this kind of test on any other platform yeah not necessarily a test but in all honesty I have dabbled in online marketing with Google ads and YouTube ads and uh and Facebook ads as well and I don't I can't come to you with like the numbers like I did here because I wasn't I wasn't like tracking it it's happened over time so I don't have like I can't go back and look at it here I specifically have the numbers I mean I you I was tracking it specific and I'm like okay I just you know it's crazy and and I'm telling you what's crazy to me is when when Twitter SLX tells you you're getting 400 clicks and there's like no views on a web page I just think that's like [ __ ] [ __ ] sorry for my language but no I'm not sorry for my language it's [ __ ] so um and it's frustrating it's really frustrating did you report this to Twitter no I'm not gonna waste my time doing that I've already wasted enough time and money on this and what what answers are they going to give me anyway you know what you wouldn't be wasting your time because you'll get a part two uh article out of it true it's not a bad idea you should report it and see what they say yeah I could I maybe I will maybe I will it's not a bad idea I could like you report it um see what their response is which you and I both know is going to be a bunch of you know gibberish and then that that could be another piece you're absolutely right um but I don't know that's been my experience if anybody is listening to this now and they've had a a better experience or they've had more success on either Twitter X or Facebook or Google ads I I am desperate to know how you know I need to I what is it what what is it um but and again I just want to be clear when I did this promoted post they it's very you don't have a whole lot of options when you do these posts on Twitter I mean it just says do you want to you know do you want people to click on your link that was one of the options and I said yes here it is here's the link that was it you know there was no like a lot there's no keywords there's no creativity there's no whatever it just is what it is so um yeah I'd like to see if people have had other success before we move on to our next topic there are a lot of smart business owners listening to this if they're interested in actually reading your book Jean where should they go oh like you said they should go they should go to Twitter and and click on the link no uh if you if you go to my website at morg group.net uh you'll you'll see where the book is and you can you can do it or email me it's fine so excellent thank you next topic uh you wrote another piece about Jeff Bezos and um I got the piece was these three quotes from Jeff Bezos will change how you run your business and I got to tell you I never click on a headline like that I it to me that screams clickbait um you know in magazine is always running they they always run posts with smart things Steve Jobs said you know 20 years ago when he was still alive it drives me crazy the only reason I clicked on it is cuz you wrote it and I was hoping it would be a good opportunity for me to make fun of you but it turned out I thought it was a really interesting piece this one too uh you actually it wasn't just clickbait you actually had some substance there uh tell us about the three things Jeff bezo said that will change couple things first of all it's absolutely clickbait um it's on entrepreneur.com I love my editors there they're very nice um but they're like ink you know it's the same deal and I'm one of one of a million Jeff Bezos advice articles that's now on that site and I I didn't think I was going to be that guy because I don't read him either because it's like gez you're just y yeah Jeff bezos's in the headline you're trying to get some you know some clicks on the article I don't want to be that guy here's why I was that guy um I'm a huge fan do you ever listen to Lex Friedman's podcasts um occasionally not too often yeah he's so good and there're like these long form conversations with like you know iconic people and not iconic people and he's very good interviewer and he had Jeff basos on for like an hour and a half something like that or two hours of a long form interview which I love that stuff and I like honestly I don't think I've ever heard Jeff bezos's interviewed for that long a period of time so I'm listening to him as I'm walking around the city and I'm like Oh my God this guy has got like he does have gems of of advice as we're talking and it's all just you know you know weaved into the conversation it's not like he sat there reading off a list it was a really good conversation so there were three things I made notes about I'm like I I I really do need to make you know write about these three things because they are really good one was he talks about there are a thousand ways to be smart you know and he gave the example of how when he was in college uh he was a physics major and he change Majors to computer science because there were just people that were physics Majors that were just a lot smarter than him you know that just could figure out problems and minutes where it took him hours and he realized that and and he he switched it up and became a computer major and he said he's he's applied that throughout his life that everybody has got their strengths and weaknesses I was at a client a few years ago and they had this guy and he had been with the company for like 15 years and he you know they put him on this job of doing like inventory management and he wasn't really good at it and they were gonna fire him and I remember having this whole discussion with them when we were talking about how like you can't you know like this guy's got 15 years in with the company he knows this business really well there's got to be another place where he can serve this business and be you know and and we can profit off of him and there was they put him in like the purchasing department and he he kind of flourished there he he happened to be really good talking to vendors and suppliers you know what I mean sure so that's what je you know that was his first bit of advice is like you know there are every person in this world even the biggest numpties that you and I meet standing in line you know you know checking in for a flight you know they're you know everybody's got their strengths and weaknesses you know and we you know we have to appreciate that because if you can profit off somebody you can profit off some that was number one number two he talked about one-way doors and two-way doors and I found that fascinating he says that a he said like more than 80% of the decisions that any manager or a business owner needs to make is a two-way door decision which basically means if you screw it up you can go back out the other door you can fix it you can do it over again you can get away 80% 90% of decisions are that way they're two-way doors you know the one-way door decisions are the ones that are really big you know like if you screw that up that could really be costly to your business and he said like the smartest people that he knows they they can identify the two two-way door decisions and make those decisions quicker even with 70% of the information available because they know they can always go back and adjust and fix it and instead they focused on the big you know expensive decisions the one-way door decisions and right I mean I thought that was pretty pretty goddamn good advice you know what I mean I think if I read you right what is he was saying was it's easy to fall into the Trap of thinking every decision is a one-way door and that you you get used to making your decisions that way and then you apply it to decisions where it's just not necessary exactly right and and and I me people like that all the time I'm dealing with somebody right now and a nonprofit that I volunteer who uh spends time you know on minutia and making decisions about things where you know we're we're you know our revenues are off and this nonprofit and this person's worried about you know adding a general ledger account do you know what I mean like there's just you stop you know what I mean like most decisions are two-way door decisions make them and move on focus on the big ones so okay so there was that and then the third one that I thought was really good was he was telling stories about where he he would disagree with people on on decisions but even if he did he would still commit so you know he had managers that reported to him we all do and um you know a manager would say I I think we need to you know you know treat this customer this way or undertake this project that way and Bezos wouldn't agree but he would listen to it you know out and other managers would agree with that manager or you would have a lot of respect you the manager's got a lot of experience and has more ears to the ground than basos is and basos would be like all right well I don't know if I agree with that decision but um you know let's go with it and because he you know he says okay we're going to make that decision and go with it I'm I'm 100% behind it now do you know what I mean like no no Dilly ding around I'm not going to sit there and and stab you in the back or undercut you you know if I'm going to commit to it we're committing to it and that's the way it is and I love that and no uh and no I told you so and no I told you so and as an ancillary to that he also said um it's even worse to compromise it's like you know when you're making decisions you know like you have a group of people and you're like all right well it's 10 it's eight let's just uh let's compromise on nine he says that's like the worst thing you can do you it's either 10 or it's eight you know you make decisions based on the facts you know you know ceiling is either eight foot tall or S foot tall it it it it is what it is so he says you know don't compromise you know just make your decision based on the facts um and then you know whatever the decision is even if you disagree with it you know commit to that decision and move forward and frankly if it's a two-way door decision you can always go back and adjust you know so I guess you basically decided to disagree and commit with the headline that they put in that story am I right that's exact yeah that's pretty much I wasn't gonna do this and then I did Pi I it's my fault because I'm the one that pitched to my editor saying I just listen to this great interview and I think I would like to right about this but I never thought it was going to be that guy it's a good story you were right yeah never thought I was going to be that guy though all right last topic you wrote about wage theft and how businesses can kind of fall into doing this inadvertently yeah how's that happen yeah I wrote about that for the Philly inquire uh last week and it's a uh you know wage theft happens all the time and and sometimes it happens you know there are lots of employers who willingly commit wage theft uh that is you know and and that's not good and I use some examples of some Philly businesses that stole tips and whatnot but sometimes businesses commit wage thatu they don't even know they did it they they don't count for tips properly if you're a restaurant or um they don't they don't classify workers the right way and there are workers that are entitled to overtime they don't get their overtime or they're not paid uh the right kind of overtime you know or they don't manage vacations in the right way and so workers get cut out of vacation time that they otherwise you know were due to them and a lot of times workers don't know this or recognize it as it's happening and then I don't know they're out drinking with their friends six months later and they're like wait a second you only took those days off because you know you're were entitled to other days you know they find out and then they hire an attorney and then you're sued you know and there's all these different forms of this and even if you did it completely inadvertently there are still potential fines and penalties if you were not in compliance with either your state or the Federal Department of Labor's rules or you know eeoc's rules or you know OSHA so these are all things that um employers need to be aware of and and in this piece for the inquir I spoke to a couple of attorneys who offered some advice on just making sure that uh you are uh you're in compliance with the laws and by the way here's the spoil alert I spoke to two attorneys guess what their biggest advice was Lauren hire an attorney to to what come in and review everything and make sure you're kosher yeah like your worker classifications and uh your titles that you're using and your vacation policies and how you're paying minimum wage you know these are all things that if you you how you're accounting for tips and Reporting on tips if you you know if you have a lot of hourly workers these are all like important things to track have you ever had a client who's had this problem no as a matter of fact that I'm aware of I've not had it um I do have some clients though that I think could have this problem and when I wrote this piece I actually sent them a link to it and said we should talk about this what are you working on now what should we look for this coming week uh you know I just uh wrote a piece that'll be out this week in the Chicago Daily Herold wait what what is that my favorite yeah is a piece on earned wage access and same day pay so um it is uh that's coming out this week and then also I'm gonna write for the inquire uh Lauren about um I I think I'm going to do it this week but I'm going to write about um uh what happens if you get divorced and you're a business owner oo you know um how do you how does that affect your life and how do you try to avoid the impact of divorce and it is uh it is not a pretty picture I spoke to a couple divorce attorneys and uh my I know this we're talking a week after Valentine's Day but might want to get flowers for your spouse I think that will be a very well- read story I can't wait to see it I I've often wondered about that I suspect there there are a lot of marriages that stay together because of the damage it would do to a business uh I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing but it's interesting I agree so that's what's coming up excellent Gan marks is a CPA who writes weekly on small business for the guardian the hill the Philadelphia inquire the Washington Times the Chicago Daily Herald forbs an entrepreneur you can also hear him on ABC radio's ey on the world with John Bachelor Jean hosts two small business podcasts with Paycheck Corporation and the Harford this episode was brought to you by the great game of business which helps businesses use an open book management system to build healthier companies you can learn more at Great game.com thank you Jean thank you Lauren we'll see you soon have a great week everybody [Music]