Dashboard: The Insane Burden of Health Insurance

[Music] welcome to another 21 hats dashboard brought to you by our sponsor the great game of business I'm Lauren Felman and I'm here with genan marks welcome Jean hello Lauren how are you I'm good great to have you back um soene you recently wrote a piece proclaiming that this is the era of the worker and in particular you you notice the increased number of strikes uh tell me about the piece what prompted that first of all I I just want to say you know I don't want to get like political here because it's really it's not that so much I mean well clearly you read the news everybody knows there's a lot of strikes I mean the the levels of strikes have reached uh very very high levels compared to Prior periods uh you know actors are striking truck drivers are striking Baristas are striking Amazon Workers are striking I mean it's it's all over the place so you know the question is like why and what and you know and the answer is kind of obvious I mean you know if you have a pro-worker Administration and this government the administra is very Pro worker and very pro-union there are a lot of states around the country you know there are blue States California Illinois New York very Pro worker very Pro Union um it it creates an environment where if you're in a union um you're like hey man you know like this is the time to take advantage and you know and get some money because we're going to have backing from you know from the governments or at least they're not going to they'll give us moral support they won't get in our way I mean you remember when Reagan took office and you know the the the airline uh the um the air traffic controllers yeah and he fired them all you know that kind of set the stage you know what I mean so that's a different tone that's for sure that's a different tone um it's the opposite tone now I'm not saying that's good or bad I'm just saying it's a fact well let me ask you I mean clearly it is a fact I think it's a fact that Joe Biden would happily agree to I think he's proclaimed himself the most pro-union president ever um but do you really think that has that big an impact I mean I'm sure they appreciate the moral support but the you know the argument the Auto Workers for example are making is that we you know we gave a lot of givebacks during the Great Recession uh since then profits have soared our wages haven't it's time for us to be repaid for that isn't that more of a factor than the tone in the White House you just said the right word it's time for us I mean if they they didn't have um uh the type of administration that was in place right now perhaps it might not have been time for them they might have had to take a step back if they knew I mean you know everything in life is timing and if they were going to uh Institute some type of a a strike uh where they did not they had the people at the highest levels of government talking you know calling out against them and uh sentiments around the country that was not very Pro worker Pro Union wouldn't have been a good time to strike but now that's not the case I mean well a lot of other things have changed too I mean the economy has changed and uh you know the employees as you point out employees are clearly in a stronger position um than they were before the pandemic yeah it's good timing I mean it's that's I guess that's just my point is that that the timing is right for doing this um the ad you know the the the you know climate the political climate is right for doing this I mean listen you know if uh Biden loses the next election and a republican comes in whether it's Trump or somebody else I mean it it it would be a harder battle for them regardless of how the economy is going what their wages are um it would just be harder battle and but now they they they know they they need to strike while the iron is hot strike literally all the iron is H and that's what they're doing and and well let me ask you this do do you see this as a small business issue do you see this in you know unions and strikes affecting uh the kinds of businesses that are your clients uh it's true it's a really really good question and and really I see it more um I mean listen it depends on how you define a small business I mean the small business administration defines anybody with less than 00 employees so you know maybe if you've got hundreds of employees you're you're you're more exposed to unionization uh you know or having a union than than others but now for the most part I don't think it is much of a small business issue the only impact that it does have on small businesses is uh look at the impact that it had in Hollywood when you have the actor strike uh you know you have you have restaurants and services and companies that you know service these com the an industry that's kind of shut down do you know what I mean so you know the auto worker strike that's going on right now is a perfect example I mean there are a lot of small businesses that are uh you know having their orders you know pulled back or stopped uh because there's no production going on so it has that sort of you know trickle down effect to other businesses that's the main impact that it has you do kind of um take a shot at the workers at the End by implying you know what artificial intelligence is coming and hundreds of millions of jobs are going to be lost and you be careful what you ask for according to some studies yeah yeah I mean yeah I mean it's uh listen I I have to tell you something Lauren I you know I do a lot of speaking to a lot of associations and you know just this past month I've spoken six or eight times to different industry organizations specifically on AI for like an hour on AI um these people in the audience are are hungry to learn more about it and how it will help their business um and really what they're what they're saying is how do we use this technology to um not necessarily fire people but you know to to do the work that we can find people to do and yeah ultimately to keep our Workforce as lean and mean as possible and I think that's that's what's coming so you know my I think everybody's going to do that regardless I mean yeah they are which is which gets me back to my you know my advice for the union workers I'm like listen I'm all about it like I'm like dude if I was running a union or I was in a union like I'd be like trying to grab as much as I can right now because not only is the environment good but you know when you look out into the future and what you know what certain Technologies like AI is going to bring that's going to really have a potential impact on jobs so while you can get the money it's important to get it all right next topic no matter how much you love your employees there are times when you have to terminate one or more whether it's because of economic conditions or because of poor performance you recently wrote a piece kind of laying out some guidelines things you should be thinking about if you have to do this tell us about that a little bit you know first of all what what drove me to WR this in the uh in the Philly inquire did this this past week there was a study that came out from a a career services firm called Challenger grain Christmas and they do other studies and and they you know you would think with the hot job market and unemployment being so historically low that you know there wouldn't be that many layoffs but they say that uh layoffs right now uh there was more than 600,000 layoffs this year almost a 200% increase from the same period last year um they say that the the number of corporate layoffs in in you know this year is second only to 2009 I mean that's pretty wild you know like you know there's a lot of layoffs going on which has been hidden by the fact that the jobs reports have been really strong yeah yeah it's exactly right and I think what it underlies is that companies as as even as labor is is tight what I'm seeing out there is that uh compan and my clients they're they're willing to pay for good people you know when they can get them you know I mean they're stepping up to do it when they can um and they're also willing to get rid of people that are just not productive or they're a drain on their Pro you know on their profits and I think we're seeing a lot of that in corporations you know you the best example is not to go too much on a tangent but it's like I've been reading uh the Water isacson book on you know Elon Musk um and you know like you musk C off like 85% of the staff at Twitter you know was laid off you know and there's there's been some blips in Twitter but you know I'm a Twitter user every day and I I really don't really see any issues with it like it's been mostly fine I mean maybe um you know maybe uh Dan santis might have a different opinion considering his I have a different opinion as well but okay okay but I I guess maybe 85% was too much which is by the way what Isaacson concluded but I I guess my point is that there's a lot of fat to trim in corporate in a corporate environment and and I think you know corporations are are you know knowing of that I think he's also facing some litigation there because apparently he didn't pay out money that was promised to some of those laid off employees I don't know the facts of the case but which brings me to your original question I mean to the point of this conversation so I'm like okay we're in an environment if you are a small business you need to lay somebody off like you know what is like the right uh you know process for doing it so you don't get into trouble I talked to a few attorneys I wrote a piece for the inquire on this this and let me just give you a few of the takeaways Lauren you know like number one is you you you got to document document document and you shouldn't just be document when you decide to lay somebody off or terminate them it should be an ongoing process I mean by the time you get to terminate somebody um it should not be a surprise to that employee you know there there you should have at least a system in place where if there's any infraction of rules or misbehavior or complaints or whatever it gets documented either manually or in some you know platform some system so that it's it's discussed along the way and and when the line is crossed again it should not be um you know a big you know you know a surprise to that employees that's number one number two is when you are terminating maybe that might be worth a further thought because sure in most cases I mean the employer has the right to fire an employee pretty much at will yes so explain why it's so important to document um reasons that would explain that firing yeah there's one word in the the word is discrimination um it's a you know it's a highly politicized environment right now and employees are smart you know and and if you are if you're going to fire somebody who I don't know might have a potential health issue or might have a uh might be older you know an older employee or might be an employee of color um it's not so hard for that employee to be like you know oh you fired me because of you because of race or because of you discriminated against me because of my age or my gender so um you know I'm not saying that an employee will prevail but if you don't have any documentation to support the reason why you're terminating that employee it makes it a lot harder for you to argue that case if it ever does go to court which is why all the attorneys I talk to are like you got to make sure you're keeping records does that make sense it does obviously that's um a termination for for a reason it's not a layoff because of economic conditions correct is there documentation that matters in a lay off situation yeah I mean the only documentation is basically uh being able to prove that you know you your your your layoff was because of economic reasons and usually the documentation is your financial statements to back it up you know um some of the other things by the way I just want to make sure I get in here is that um you know I I learned that obviously you you should always have another party with you when you're having this termination meeting um you don't necessarily have to do it face to face in fact some of the attorneys I talked to were like you're doing your employee a favor just by doing it over Zoom I know some people are like oh my God that sounds so insensitive but it's like I don't know making the person Drive 45 minutes into work just to fire them um you know can also and then having to you know as someone who has been fired and then having to walk through the office ums I can uh I can I can relate to that yeah you almost wish you know so and having another you know party there to witness the conversation is important um one attorney it was interest interesting was saying that um you should have an employee if you're GNA have that meeting face to face it should be in a room where uh the employee has got free access out of the room like you shouldn't be blocking their access out of the room like whoa and they're like yeah because it's like it's kind of restraint and you don't know how somebody's going to react and then they could accuse you of uh confrontation I don't know so okay so there's all that um and then finally there's you know you you do want to find that final document which is sort of like your your termination agreement and um you know you're not allowed now because of a recent uh rul from the National Labor relation board that uh you you you can't have contingent Severance agreements you know some employers do that like well we'll pay you a severance but you're not allowed to say this or do this after you leave this company forever or else we have the right to get this money you can't do any of that you know but you can have a termination agreement which lays out all the you know what you're paying that employee um and that means unused vacation or any other benefits um you know final payments and then the employee should sign it which gets us back to the musk argument did did he have those employees sign those agreements because when an employee signs that they're basically saying like yes I I confirm that this is what's owed to me and uh I'm signing off on that but if if Elon Musk which I don't know if they did or not but you know if they didn't have the employees sign those agreements um then that definitely leaves them open to you know to to questions often those agreements in the past have had some kind of promise not to talk ill of the company um I don't know if can you still do that no I mean again well first of all you you can't make your Severance contingent on that um that's what the agreements of the past was like but now I mean yeah I mean employees can leave and still talk ill about the company they're they're free to do that it's freedom of speech so um they're they're able to do it interesting all right last topic you also wrote recently about how much you like Britain's National Health System uh we've talked about this before a little bit but I want to go back into it I guess what intrigues me about this is I agree with you 100% on what I think is your main argument for this your main argument correct me if I'm wrong is that it is just insane that we burden business owners with having to figure out how to in provide health insurance for their employees am I right about that you are that's one of the reasons why and I knew you would agree with me because you're a liberal socialist you want look hey this is your this is your piece socialist Who you calling socialist yeah I mean it it it's such a burden on employers I mean and it is I have client after client who have to struggle with you know renegotiating their health insurance every year it's a monopoly I mean let's come on let's admit it it's like you get the same quotes from different insurance companies you have to have a PhD in health insurance to figure out all the different plans the networks the deductibles the you know add-on for drug coverage or not or dentist coverage or not you know I mean it's like and you have to offer it whether it's one employee or a family of uh you know with the employee yeah and then you know what happens is well then you get into it and like the you know if you have a a health history in your company the insurance agent you know the insurance company raises your rates and then you're like why and then I've seen it you know they'll be like well you know you had that one employee that has you know like liver cancer and that was like a big problem and you had and you're like that's a way too much information for me in this you know era of HIPPA like I don't need to know that you know like I you people don't want to know this stuff so it's like just why why are employers have to go and then finally in this country it's like we pay for health insurance as a small business it's still not enough I mean the big companies out there are still offering way better benefits because they can afford it so by having like a national health where everybody just pays in the same it does you know level the playing field now in England companies can for what's called Bupa or private insurance um as an extra perk fair enough but really for the most part you know your small businesses and your large companies in England are when it comes to health insurance it's just not a competitive Advantage you know now I should point out that you do acknowledge in this piece that everything isn't great with the National Health Service over there and it it has had some problems is taking some heat yeah I mean my my father-in-law who's like 160 years old uh had to go into the hospital like during the summer for like you know a very minor broken bone um in his head no I'm just kidding in his leg and um he um he wound up spending seven weeks in the hospital for it because while he was there there were two strikes there was a doctor's strike and a nurse's strike can you imagine I mean that stuff goes on all the time there and they definitely have their issues on National Health there no no question about having said that I mean my mom you know had to go in the hospital later in it's been quite here this is here yeah in Philly and uh you know and again like you know the healthcare workers there there it was it was uh inconsistent care that she was getting and just getting you know signed in and then signed out of the hospital it's still a bureaucratic nightmare um so there there's a lot of you know a lot of stuff going on and you hear here obviously people here in this country uh they get slapped with enormous healthare bills out of the blue and it's tough so again back to where we started why the burden of this should fall on business owners I I will never understand but what I really don't understand is why they don't rise up and fight it uh which I think they should and that's kind of my challenge for you it's it's one thing to write a column about the the Health Service in England that's you're holding it up as example you know that's never going to sway Minds here people are not going to rise up and say that's what we want exactly the way we they have it over there but you could kind of lead the charge for something that absolves business owners of this responsibility here in this country why don't you do that it's a good question I mean I could be doing a lot of things that are and maybe I you know I know you're chuckling a little bit but no I'm I'm I'm very serious I'm with you on this I think it's an important cause I've heard the pain in the voice of business owners who have to deal with this you know it's hard enough to run a business without this concern but to have this hanging over your head every year is is insane and I think if business owners got together and got behind a solution to this and you know raise their voices it would make a difference it would I I I I do agree with you and as I get older um there I I do have PL I do have plans really in all honesty of picking up certain issues that impact businesses and you know and and really kind of you know taking a stand of being an advocate for it and this is this is definitely the one that leads the charge for it um you know all I can do right now in my schedule is like sort of write about it or talk about it and things like this well right about come up with your proposal yeah do that as a column I'd love to see that and it's very it's actually a very simple proposal but it's you know it's it's just to it's just to expand Medicare you know what I mean I mean it's really not that it's not that hard there you go you and Bernie Sanders agree yeah right oh my goodness did you just say that let the conversation just agreed Jean what should we be watching for this week from you what's coming up so I'm going to write for entrepreneur about uh ways businesses can take advantage of shrinkflation uh and I've got some uh articles uh some topics for the inquire that I need to write about that I'm thinking about um doing related to um um Hispanic business owners is sort of leading my charge but I've also got a few other things to think about so um few things in the year I haven't decided yet until I put put put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard so I'll let you know but shrink flation and how to I guess you're it's a subtle way to raise prices it is and I'm a big fan of it I think it's a great I think it's a great way uh to to manage your way around it and uh the theme is less meatballs in your who's going to know is there a way that works for a business like yours a Consulting business it actually does yeah I mean really in our business is a a perfect example is uh we don't charge for travel time when we go to clients locations but maybe we should start doing that you know what I mean so uh certain things that were included before aren't necessarily included going forward so things like that can work in a service business too I'll have a bunch of ideas I promise interesting I will look forward to that gan marks is a CPA who writes weekly on small business for the guardian the hill the Philadelphia inquire the Washington Times the Chicago Daily Herald Forbes an entrepreneur you can also hear him on ABC radio's eye on the world with John Bachelor Jean hosts two small podcasts two small business podcasts with paychecks Corporation and the Hartford this episode was brought to you by the great game of business which helps businesses use an openbook management system to help build healthier companies you can learn more at Great game.com thank you Jean thank you Lauren see you next week have a great week everyone [Music]