Dashboard: You’re Still Using a 20-Year-Old CRM?

[Music] welcome to another 21 hats dashboard brought to you by our sponsor the great game of business I'm Lauren Feldman I'm here with Gene marks welcome Jean hello Lauren how are you I'm doing great it's great to have you here Jean you wrote a piece recently in which you talked about business owners who are stuck using clunky old technology in some cases predating Miss Pacman can you give us some examples of what you've seen out there of late yeah I um so my company sells CRM software as you know Lauren right and um yep we got into the business by selling a product called Gold Mine software and uh this was literally I mean literally like in the early 90s you know so um it was a long time ago three decades yeah we still have some clients using Gold Mine software okay I mean it's a handful maybe it's like 20 of them or 30 of them actually um that are still using Goldmine software Goldmine software was like a contact manager back in the day okay and it was not a cloud-based application at all it was a uh it's client server you installed it on your server in your office and you would just do the work in the office and uh uh and it was big it was a big deal back in the day but it's been completely you know usurped by Cloud applications but there's the few the prow that are still holding on to you know to to gold mine um and and and in addition that um we have a lot of clients that they use QuickBooks or they use other applications like that and you'd be surprised in fact I think I I mentioned the piece that I wrote where I was writing about this about the number of businesses that still write checks you know I think it was like it was a I know a few of those yeah like 80% of companies still write checks maybe not like entirely you know what I mean but they're still writing some checks as well and um there is you know the other thing that I I I think people in the software World know this dirty little secret is that a lot of the big mainstream applications that are out there and I mean like dynamics that people might be using from Microsoft or Sage or even versions of QuickBooks I mean they're built on like old Legacy databases and systems you know what I mean there are many remnants and Dynamics from Great Planes uh which is like you got to like you know be back in the day you know interesting sage has many remnants in it in its database and its code that date back to it's it's Mass 90 was the original software I remember all this stuff when I was like in my 20s so it's really long time ago so you know there there's just more old [ __ ] out there than you than you you give credit for it you don't realize it well here's one of the things I liked about your piece um you know it's easy to joke about how outdated this stuff is but it's also easy to understand how this can happen and you pointed this out the the software is still working and for these businesses it's it's easy to understand how they view it as changing it's going to be enormously disruptive and somewhat expensive um and I think you suggested you you can understand why some are hesitant to to do it for years not only did I understand it I respected it and I don't know if it's just because I'm an old guy but it's like I um you're not that old well when I see people that are like clinging to that to to that stuff um believe it or not the people that have been clinging to it uh were among the smartest of my clients exactly they were ahead of their time right yeah they're like listen I'm not gonna I'm not gonna spend money and upgrade my system just because Microsoft tells me I should be doing that you know what I mean and like if it ain't broke I'm not going to fix it um I got other things to spend my money and my time on software is no different than any other asset in my company if I don't see a return on investment from changing it or updating it I'm just it's not worth doing it so people would have like these accounting systems and they're like listen I don't need anything more it's doing my bill it's a cutting checks for me it's it's managing my general ledger I don't I don't need to be changing anything I'm going to maintain it and spend my money elsewhere and you know I had a number of cents many clients over the years that they just stuck to it you know and and they're still there I still see these people using some of these old systems having said that though my attitude is starting to change because these same people that I respected when I and they were in our 30s and 40s and even into our 50s you know now I see them getting older and I see them looking towards the future you know and now they're talking about exit plans and succession planning and all of that you know and I'm like dude you've been real smart you have really got a lot of mileage out of your gold mine system which you know really I mean you milked every penny out of it good for you but like if you're planning on selling your business you know uh we're even passing it on let me tell you you are not you are hurting yourself in a big way if you really think that a buyer is going to be happy to see you using 30y old software it's a big data world and when people come and value businesses they value these intangibles like your data and your it infrastructure pretty significantly and um you know I just for for all these years where it was making sense and I really did now you know I'm starting to tell my clients who are my age and older like you know I I think it's time now you better start making some Investments and upgrading your systems and getting them in shape um otherwise you're going to have somebody coming in here and giving you a lot less money for your business than you were expecting because you're you know your infrastructure is so old so it's changing have you found a way to address the pain um of the transition that they're concerned about no it is what it is and nothing's changed yeah nothing I mean you know it's incredible again I've been in the technology world for so many years nothing's changed you know migrating to the next system is still a pain in in the neck you know um there's still going to be problems there's still going to be hiccups uh there you're still going to get disappointed by your partners and your vendors all that stuff it's funny like the actual process itself um has not gotten that much easier I mean there are tools now to help migrate data and maybe smooth out you know the situation a little bit better but for the most part it's still it's still a big headache to do but it's something that you need to do now if you might say like hey you know what fine why should I spend the money I'll just take the if I'm going to spend 100,000 to upgrade my systems then I'll you know I'll just take a $100,000 cut in my purchase price isn't it the same thing but it's not it's kind of like somebody's who wants to sell a house saying you know I'm not going to upgrade the kitchen I know it needs it but I'll let the next person do it right which is fair you fair enough but um you just just be aware that you know there are some buyers out there that want to come in with a turnkey system and they will pay a premium for that just like with a house right they don't want to sit there and have to put in a whole new system having said that there are other buyers that no matter what system you're using they're going to replace it anyway with their system so you got that to to be concerned about so you're GNA spend all this money on a new system and then like some buyer comes in say all right well it's a great system but you know we're trashing it because we want our system so that could happen too that could happen too but the rule of thumb though is that you really it is just like anything else you bring in a prospective buyer um you know you got to be showing them the right stuff and that's not just if you're going to sell your system to somebody else if you're planning on passing your your your business down to the Next Generation I mean you know you're kind of screwing up your kids you know if you're like here you take this disaster off my hands it's your headache you know like I don't know if that's you know the right way to be so sure um so anyway the bottom line is that for years I had a lot of respect for the way and I still do a lot of respect I got a lot out of the technology without being romanced or duped by the big Tech Giants that they have to upgrade but I think now they have to take another you know if you're an older business owner and you're looking for the future I think you have to take another look at your systems and make some hard choices the other line in your piece that jumped out at me was your suggestion that your company's biggest competition isn't other CRM software it's a PR proprietary system built on FileMaker Pro um yeah and I we run into that so much and you know it's it's you would be maybe you wouldn't be surprised Lauren but I mean there are so many compan that we bump into they got some their whole order entry system is built on Microsoft Access 2.0 by some guy who died 10 years ago and it's still working you know what I mean and like they're just supporting it themselves and I'm like oh my God you guys are really painting yourselves into a corner here so in part because they can't get anybody to work on it right there's nobody else besides the person who installed it 30 years ago who could do it how you gonna sell that you know it's pretty tough who would buy that all right next topic you wrote another piece uh you talked about a client who learned an important lesson when he was forced to vacate his office because of a construction project tell us about that I wrote this piece for and by the way thanks for selecting this piece Lauren it's from the Chicago Daily Herald you love to point that out yes right I happen to contribute to quite frequently it's a very very fine publication uh so it was um they were doing a series on motivating employees and um you know I I wanted you know they' ask me like you know you know can you give us some thoughts on motivating your employees and I get it I mean there's you know offer better benefits have bowling night you know go and you know you know have a barbecue on Fridays you know it's all great these are all you know nice things and whatever but I mean this is like so many of my other stories this is like 100% true I mean I I was this is another client that I had that's good enough you're not you're not just making it up je no I mean like you know this guy like he had Renovations being done in his office this was back in the D maybe 10 15 years ago I foret how long it was but anyway he was having you know Renovations done in his office so he couldn't be in his office for like a couple months so um he was like all right well you know I got to sit somewhere so he picked a cube in like like in his customer service area and like for like a month he worked out of like a customer service Cube you know and like you would think that the boss working alongside you people would been like terrified you know and you running in the opposite direction but it it turned out to be like the best thing ever like you know he he worked there obviously if he had to take confidential calls I think he went into like a conference room to do that but for the most part he was there in the Cuban and um doing his work and taking meetings there and doing whatever but then he was also listening in on what was going on around him and um he became even more friendly with the customer service group can you think of a more important group to be friendly with in your company or the one serving your customers face to face and you would hear them on the phone and he would like chime in and say Hey you know you might want to mention this or wow that was she did a great job on that call you know like and they loved him they I I mean they you know the the group itself were like this is great man like you know this this is what it's all about working for a small business I'm literally working next to the owner of the company and um that he's seeing how I'm working and and giving me thoughts and I'm giving him thoughts and um this is like great you know like you you just you're not going to get that working at some corporate brand he loved it so much that he moved to office and and ever since then although he still maintains his own office he's now working for weeks at a time um he worked in the accounting and finance you know place where I think he spent most of his time sleeping uh he spent uh time like you know near the HR and admin people um and then in the production floor they're like a manufacturer they're like a a piping distributor or whatever they um yeah they have like an office in the production floor where the plant manager is and the estimators or whatever and he would go there and he would sit with them you know for like weeks at a time and just work out of there and um he found that like it's just it really it's anecdotal so maybe you know I don't there's no big big no big studies on this but it's all right Lauren like everything's relationships it's like it's all relationships and um I don't know as business owners we tend to like run to our offices and shut the door and don't want to be bothered and um you know this guy was forced to actually have a relationship with his employees and it turned out well well I I can't resist noting that this is kind of interesting advice coming from a writer meaning you has a bus that operates entirely remotely I'm jealous I really am jealous and and I want to be on record I'm sure we' talked about this before I mean I did have an office way back before I closed it in 2005 but we nobody came to the office they were all working out at projects the only thing I could have done to fix that is I could have gone to clients locations and worked out of there but that's a little awkward to do well well I was going to ask and maybe you just answered the question given that you run a remote company have you been inspired by this story to try to find ways to spend more time uh in the field with your employees no because it's it's so I can't I mean I've tried to find ways to spend more employee time with our employees like by I mean like over the years you know company events and lunches and you know whatever it's always like just awkward you know and weird and I don't know and people don't really want to be there because the culture of our company sucks so like you know so it's just they they just you know they want to do their thing and deal with their clients and you know they you know whatever I mean that's the nature of the people whereas this guy as an example I mean it's it's only good when it's organic isn't it like it's just got to be natural it probably didn't feel natural right away I mean I probably I'm guessing there was some adjustment period yeah I don't think it took that long though before they got used to him coming in in the morning and sitting at his desk right near them and but I can tell it's it's not like you could show up at your employees house and say hey can I sit next to you in the dining room while you're uh doing your work yeah that would be a little bit bad so yeah this guy meanwhile like he was sitting there and everybody's sitting on everybody relaxes and stuff comes out and it's just more you know just more normal you know and um that's why I think it worked really well for him so I'm jealous I think it's really cool and I've said for years you know people talk about uh you know businesses competing for employees um but I'm not um you know I just think one of the biggest advantages of a smaller business is you employees like working you know make an impact and working with the owner this is a great way to do it exactly last topic Tick Tock um the House of Representatives has passed a bill that would force the Chinese company that owns Tik Tok to sell the business you know many see this as a national security issue because of the influence that the Chinese government holds over the platform it's interesting to me because it's a very rare issue that isn't breaking strictly along partisan lines and it's also the rare issue where I've seen proponents on both sides acknowledge that there are good arguments on the other side which you also never hear uh I'm curious what you think do you have a position on this yeah first of all a couple couple thoughts on it for starters like I kind of find it insulting when the government like does something like this assuming that we're just [ __ ] dopes do you know what I mean it's like oh well the Chinese can influence you know the votes you know what I mean or you know whatever I think there's some scientific basis for that but but go ahead I mean okay so maybe there's a scientific you know basis that we're dopes but I I don't know if it's I don't think you have to be a dope to be influenced by the information you're exposed to I don't know man I mean like I just it's just like you know you're you're saying like well we're going to restrict content to you because we don't think you know how to handle it and I I just on principle I get offended by that you know and and you're right maybe there are plenty of dopes that are out there that need to have their content restricted I didn't say they were do you said they were dopes okay saying they're dopes maybe they do have to have their content restricted but I even if they should and even if they're they are dopes um I don't I still don't think that the government should be doing that I I'm sensing where your position is going on this yeah just on principle I just I'm I'm I'm opposed to Banning it I'm not afraid that the Chinese are going to influence how I'm going to vote okay like I'm a grown man and I I'll make my own decisions and I've got there's plenty of stuff out there to read and be on and and you know and and uh learn from to make informed decisions and if I choose to be on Tik Tok which I'm not on Tik Tok I'm on Instagram all the time um which I absolutely love and I think I've told you this I follow a bunch of highly inappropriate accounts on Instagram which are makes me laugh all I don't post anything on Instagram but man do I laugh and half of the posts are from Tik Tok because whatever you post on Tik Tok people post on Instagram so why aren't you on Tik Tok uh because I can't I spend enough time on Instagram enough is enough you know what I mean like I only have many hours in the day to waste um and I get fed all sorts of stuff on Instagram and it's not you know I can handle it so anyway so I'm against it I'm against this whole legislation thing I also am against it from a small business perspective that um you're really killing a lot of opportunities there's a lot of creators out there um there's advertisers that that are making money off of it and there's there are good things there's communities and groups that provides entertainment you know there there's there's entrepreneurial you know a lot of entrepreneurial uh you know things going on on Tik Tok and I think you're taking that away um that platform and that kind of like you know annoys me it's like you know that's a shame I feel bad you know for the people that are doing that and then you know find so I'm against it I don't even know how they enforce it at Lauren like say they ban Tik Tok well wait a second we should just point out that the legislation that passed the house doesn't actually ban it um it's it's the attempt is to force uh a sale of the business or they'll B it but but with yeah exactly which could lead to the Banning because the Chinese government might not allow it to be sold right right right you're absolutely right I appreciate you clarifying that I mean the ultimate you know thing is like it's it could be banned and that's that's what I'm saying foreing the sale of it is that um I don't have a problem with because I do uh you know I the government has has a long history of getting involved with foreign entities or or foreign actors that are in certain industries and certain businesses they don't want them to be part of and and there is you know it's a dubious National Security argument but there are National Security arguments we make for foreign for foreign interest to you know own certain Assets in this country and by the way there certainly are restrictions on how our platforms can operate in China for for what it's worth no doubt so there's definitely precedent you know there's definitely president and where I don't know where you draw the line like if you like okay Chinese companies can't own American utilities for example you know makees sense I mean like where do you draw the line between that and Tik Tock I mean it's so I get it there's precedent there you know um but if they don't ban it um you know fine you know let it carry on if they do ban it um it'll be interesting to see how that's enforced I mean I don't know I guess um you know if I my internet service provider is you know you know Verizon and I guess Verizon will just have to just block Tik Tok you know like I can't get to it from my phone like that's how it happens right I imagine there will be Black Market solutions to that yeah there'll be a way to get around it but it'll be that much harder just as there are ways to watch NBA games if you don't want to buy the NBA app is that right L how do you do that are are you inferring that you're doing that Noe but I might know someone who is okay I mean there are six people listening to this right now that might you know you get you in trouble you know so I want you to be careful when I I look at this I I think there are really two questions one is what what's going to happen the others what should happen I'm I'm not really sure what should happen I I can see arguments on both both sides I do feel struggl about what will happen and my belief is that's nothing um I just cannot see the US government especially in an election year taking Tick Tock away from young people and from the substantial number of people that you were referring to who who make a living on Tik Tok that just seems inconceivable to me that that could happen yeah it does it does but but but curious if if that does happen and the Senate won't vote on this for months and the Senate has a uh uh they have a history of taking longer to think these things through and you know that's why the Senate is the Senate um so you know but if they did ban it if they because President Biden said that he would sign legislation Banning it yep um would you be for or against it you know I I would be um I would prefer a different solution if that were the only one offered I'd have to give it a lot of thought but I think if there's regulation that's required it should apply to every platform and we should come up with a way to prevent the the behavior that we find objectionable and apply it to everybody in this industry is my thinking okay so you're saying if it does get banned you would be against it unless it was consistently applied I I wouldn't phrase it exactly that way I I would hope it wouldn't be banned I would hope that we would come up with regulation that would apply to to all platforms okay but that's a lot to ask for in this day and age I don't know if that's even remotely possible um so it might come down to just simple you know the choice is either you ban it or you don't and I I think that's a tough call I'm not sure yeah I I think it is I don't know I I I am a supporter of of free speech and as long as it's not threatening or violent and um you know which is why I've always been a supporter of uh X Twitter you know I um yeah we we we part ways there a little bit Jean but uh we've been through that before fair enough I just you know I just think free speech is um I think it's fine as long as it's not violent or um threatening um but anyway that's my feeling on that uh what are you working on Jean anything we should look for this week yeah I'm G to work you know what there's been a rise a significant rise Lauren in um fractional people like wandering the streets did this come out right yeah yeah many of them are in my family I haven't seen them yes they are they are it's National pie day so you know last week so I just say no no um frack fractional CMOS Chief marketing officers fractional csos you all that y so um I interviewed a few of them and found out about um what they're all about and why they could provide value for businesses and what to consider and think about so I'm going to write about that this coming week and among other topics but that's what I'm working on right now oh that sounds great I look forward to that actually that's been a topic that's come up on uh on this podcast a few times of late and uh we've had some owners who were concerned that um if you use it a fractional person enough it it's you don't come out ahead financially you might as well just hire someone and other people who absolutely swear by it and say uh they've got an incredible value out of it uh at a reasonable price so I'll be really eager to see what you come up with yeah it's always I mean this is going to be more of a of a create awareness piece you know let the CMOS have their say and why they provide value and all that good stuff but um so it's for the inquire so I don't like Give opinions in the inquir so much it's more reporting but um I I'll definitely get my opinions when you and I speak next week excellent G marks is a CPA who writes weekly on small business for the guardian the hill the Philadelphia inquire the Washington Times the Chicago Daily Herald Forbes an entrepreneur you can also hear him on ABC radio's eye on the world with John Bachelor Jean hosts two small business podcasts with Paycheck Corporation and the Hartford this episode was brought to you by the great game of business which helps businesses use an open book management system to help build healthier companies you can learn more at Great game.com thank you Jean thank you Lauren see you soon have a great week everybody