Do I Want to Work with My Family?

[Music] Hello everyone. Welcome to the 21 Hats podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Feldman. Last September, we hosted a 21 Hats brainstorm podcast in which Bailey Waldrip told us that she was considering buying the family business from her parents. Bailey, who has been serving as chief financial officer of the Miller Waldrip furniture business that her greatgrandfather started, recognized that she was being offered a remarkable opportunity, but she had some concerns. Sales have been off of late. The business is predominantly brick and mortar. And most importantly, she would have to work out an ownership structure with her younger brother. The 21 Hats crew of owners and entrepreneurs who joined the brainstorm asked a lot of good questions and offered smart suggestions. I think what's actually incredibly hard about this whole thing is that I love it, says Bailey. I love wearing the different hats. I love owning a business in a small community. We left it that Bailey would get back to us once she'd figured out what she wanted to do. In this week's episode, she returns to tell Jay Golds and the rest of us what she's decided. Even in good times, owning and running a business can be a lonely pursuit. Our hope is that these weekly conversations will let owners know they are not alone in facing challenges. In fact, that's the whole idea behind the 21 Hats community, engaging with other owners to get the kinds of insights only another owner can offer. If you're interested in learning more, step one is to sign up for a free trial of the Morning Report newsletter, which helps you navigate this interesting world in which we live. Every day, it highlights the most important news for business owners and shows how other owners are coping and finding opportunities. Step two is to get on our Slack channel where you can ask questions, get vendor recommendations, and tap the wisdom of a very impressive crowd. Just search the 21 Hats Morning Report to subscribe. Joining me this week on the podcast are Bailey Waldrop, who is CFO of Miller Waldrup Furniture and Decor, a chain of furniture stores in West Texas and New Mexico, and Jay Goltz, who is CEO of the Golds Group, whose companies in Chicago include a picture frame business, artist frame service, and a home furnishing store, Jason Home. The episode is titled, Do I Want to Work with My Family? Welcome, Jay, and welcome back to our special guest, Bailey Walup. Bailey, we recorded a podcast with you back in September, I believe, in which we gathered a group of owners and entrepreneurs to try to help you think through whether you wanted to take over the family furniture business. Before you tell us what you've decided, could you take us back and kind of set the scene, remind us what the business uh is and what you were thinking at the time? >> Sure. Yeah, I'd love to. So, my family has a a retail furniture store. My great grandpa started it in 1952 and then he handed it down to my grandpa who handed it down to my dad. And now uh my dad and me and my brother and my mom all work at the furniture store. And so the big the big question right of really my life having being born into the a furniture dynasty, I guess we could call it, is uh whether or not I'm going to take it over and what role as a as a family member do I do I play uh in the business. So, um, a little bit more about the business just briefly. Um, it's in southeastern New Mexico and West Texas. >> It has lived many different lives in different locations since 1952, but the current locations are in um a mountain town in Rio, New Mexico. Um, POBS, New Mexico, which is the flagship location. Um, POBS is a a small oil and gas town. And then in Leach, Texas, which is West Texas, um it's it's the third location. So, all furniture retail. There's also some mattresses in there. Uh you know, we're right now, as we may get into later, that the economy is not too great for furniture, for retail furniture. So, our sales are about 10 million, about 40 employees. Um but that's that's fluctuated a lot as as the economy has has fluctuated. >> Wait, what was it? It's 10 now. What was it? >> Well, it's kind of hard to say because we expanded during the pandemic, which is a whole another conversation for another time, but uh when we were at our height, we were at about 15 million and we had about 60 employees. >> And what has your role at the business been? >> So, uh you know, as a family member, uh you know, a nod to the name of this podcast, you wear lots of different hats. >> Thank you. >> But my main role was being the CFO. Um, my background is in accounting and finance and so that was a I'm a CPA so that was an easy role for me to step into. So that's the primary hat uh I wore in the business but you know as a family member you do you do a little bit of everything. >> And and take us back to when we had that conversation in the fall. What were you thinking at the time? I I guess what I'm asking is why wasn't this just something you wanted to do? What was going through your mind that made you hesitant about taking over the business? >> Yeah, so I think back when we the podcast, there was several things that we talked about. Uh, everyone should go listen, but I think the main thing for me was trying to figure out uh family dynamics. Um, you know, that the the structure for our business has always been that one child took it over and the other child didn't want anything to do with the business. So, we didn't really have a good blueprint for two children being interested in the business, which is me and my brother. Um, we're the only ones. We don't have any siblings. So, trying to figure that out, what that would look like felt like a mystery really to all of us. We weren't sure how to navigate that. I think there was lots of things playing in, but that that was the main question that I was sitting with um whenever we had um our panels back in September. >> And how were your parents handling it at that point? Were they hopeful? Were they exerting any pressure? How would you characterize their thinking? >> Yeah, you know, my parents have always been really great. Um, they have said my whole life, you know, go do what you want to do. Um, you know, there's nothing holding you here. We'd love to have you, but please go go do what you want to do. And actually, and I think this is something great that they've done, and I think any family business should implement this practice, is they required us to go get some professional experience um after college before they'd even let us work at the business. So, I think they really handled all of that well. I think, you know, now that I've been in the business since 2018, it's hard for them because I play a major role now and they've they've gotten used to having me around. But I think ultimately they know that this is the rest of my life and they want our family to be okay at the end of this and they want they want me to thrive and be healthy and be okay as well. So, even though I know they have a lot of feelings about it personally, um, and you know, they have an economic future that they're concerned about as well, I think, uh, they've handled it really well as parents. >> All right, Bailey. So, what did you decide? >> What did I decide? Well, I have decided not to take over the business, and I am slowly phasing out of my roles. Hopefully, we'll be completely out by the end of the year. >> Wow. Was it a tough decision for you? Oh yeah, very tough. You know, I think back to the podcast actually that we did and I don't remember who said it, but someone said, "Well, why haven't you done it?" At the time, I thought that was kind of a silly question. Well, I was like, "That's why I'm here. I'm trying to figure that out." But I think that it hit something home because, you know, if you have something you really want to do, you just go do it. And I think there was something that I couldn't quite figure out what was holding me back, right? And I think that was part of the journey of of the podcast and my personal journey since September. And what I came to was that I want my family to be my family. I do not want them to be business partners. And you know, it's it's really as simple as that. There's some really good things about working with my family. There's some really hard things about working with my family, but at the end of the day, I don't want to be in business with them. Okay, I get the family dynamics part, but I question how much of it is that there's 21 hats to wear and you really like the accounting hat and maybe you don't mind a couple of the others, but there's a few of them you really don't like at all, which means what if this wasn't your family? What if you just worked at this company and the owner said, "Hey, you want to take this over?" Would that have been any different? Is it really that you don't work with your family or is it really you don't want to be a business owner? They're two different things or both. Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think what's actually incredibly hard about this whole thing is that I love it. I love wearing the different hats. I love owning a owning a business in a small community. I I do There's parts of the family legacy I think that are interesting, too. I've actually since I've decided not to be a part of the family business, I've talked to two different brokers about different business deals that me and my husband almost did. So, it's I I love this world. I love the entrepreneurial side of it. I love the hats. I actually whatever I do next, I don't think I'm going to do anything traditional CPA accounting because I I you know, I can do it, but it's not not where my heart is. So, yeah, it's it hard because you know, you kind of in a family business in a way, you have this silver platter that is handed to you. You know, you have the family legacy. Our business has been successful. I do think my parents have done a wonderful job with it. So you're handed all this really nicely, right? But for me, it's coming to okay, I can't reconcile the two at the end of the day. I can't be business partners with my family and still live a healthy, thriving life. And so it's hard. It's really hard, but I'm at peace with it. And I I I know that this is totally the right decision for me and my family. And I think we'll look back in 5 10 15 20 25 30 so on years and and know for all of us that this was a good choice. >> So your parents are you you keep calling it a family business but the fact is your parents are going to be out of it at some point. What would happen and I don't know if you can answer this your visceral reaction your brother wakes up one day and goes you know what I really want to sell cars. I don't like the furniture business. I'm out of here. And your parents are retiring. Do you have a problem taking it over then? Maybe not. >> Interesting. >> Maybe not. >> Yeah, I thought I've had that same thought. You know, my thought was a little bit more morbid. >> I was like, what happens if they all go away? >> I'm I'm of that age. I think about it all the time. I realize I am going to die one day. I there's no getting around that. And so are your parents? And so I'm just wondering, is this a temporary thing that's going to forget about dying, they're going to retire at some point? So the question is, how does your brother feel about this whole thing about you leaving? Yeah, I think that he is sad. I think he enjoyed working with me and was excited about a potential partnership with us. But I do think there's probably a part of him that is happy that he has the whole pie to himself. I mean, he can't help but not think that and and that's okay, you know, that that's fine. >> Is this also an ownership uh decision? I mean, does this mean you won't own any percentage of the business as well? >> Right now, that's what that means. Yeah. So, we we did we hired a um a professional business coach to come in that specializes in family successions. And a lot of the conversations we were having is, you know, is there a way that we can slice the pie where ownership and leadership is structured in the right way where everyone gets what they need and everyone's playing the role in the best way that they know how and and that they can add to the add to the business. And you know, as I thought through that, every single path I went down, it just ended in the fact that it still put me in a business partnership with my brother because when you're an owner, you're you're on you get the profits, but you're also on the on the hook for a loss. And you know that that's just not that's not the relationship I want to have with my brother or my family. So, is your and obviously you don't have to answer this if you don't want, but is your brother buying the business from your parents? >> I think he's hoping to. Yeah. >> Right. Because if that's the case, then you're going to get half of the inheritance. So, you are ultimately getting half the business if that's how it works out. Usually, the sibling that takes it over buys the business and pays off the other siblings. So, I would think ultimately that's what's going to happen. >> Yeah. the the structure with us would be that my brother would start to pay off my parents. It would be like a seller financed type thing, owner financed. And so if he was able to pay them back completely before they're gone, then it's, you know, it's his um the part that he bought. I'm sure I think they're going to structure it in a way that they'll still hold on to some of the real estate. So he's just buying the business. So, there'll be some real estate left over, but you know, it all just depends how everything, you know, ends up at the end of the day. But, I've personally made my piece that, you know, maybe I don't I don't see any of it. And that's okay. That's the decision I'm making in in deciding to step away and and not be a part of it anymore. >> And how do your parents feel about this? >> It would be interesting if we had them on. I think >> Yeah, >> I think that they're sad. I think they're sad for sure. And I think, you know, we talked about this a little bit in the first podcast, but uh my brother is still young and he's still green. And so, >> wait, how young? How young? >> I always make him younger than he is, but I'm pretty sure he's 26. >> Okay, that's young. >> Which I'm also young, but I have had more professional experience than he has. And with me comes a husband who's older than me, who has way, way more experience than me, too. And so I think at this point it's fair to say that me and my husband could take over the business tomorrow and it could run. I mean not I'm I'm willing to admit that I still have plenty to learn. You know I I don't think that I would be perfect. I think there would still be more to go but my brother is not in a place where he could take over tomorrow. So there is on their side a little bit of oh man we're still in this. >> I am your parents. I've told my kids I don't want to hang this business on anybody. do whatever you want. And that all sounds great until you find out they don't want it. And then you think, >> I'm in the suck part of succession right now. I'm just in the suck part. It sucks cuz I got nobody to take it over and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate that. So, >> I'm sure they meant it when they said that, but that doesn't mean that, you know, they have to figure this out, obviously. >> Right. Right. >> How did you tell them, Bailey? Was it a big deal? >> Yeah, it was. Um, we had dinner and I gave them a hug and I said, I'm about to tell you something that's going to be hard and I told them, you know, I've been on this journey of trying to figure this out and I've taken that journey very seriously and I've just come to the conclusion that I can't be in business with my family and be the healthy version of myself that that I want to be. and I have a ton of clarity about this and I love you guys so much, but it's because I love you that I need to step away and I and I'm preserving our relationship by doing that by just leaving it to us being a family relationship and not a business relationship. So, it was hard. You know, I um I had a mentor throughout this process and um I won't name him, but he came from a fairly large well-known family business and they sold it and it's rumored to be that it was a contentious family situation. I don't know all the facts, but that's that's the rumors on the streets about how it went down. And I asked him, I said, "You know, when you drive by these stores, how do you feel? you know, are are you sad? Do you look at it and think, wow, like, you know, my my family started that. It's not in our family anymore. And he said, you know, I am sad, but I think about my kids and I think about the fact that they may get to have a relationship with their cousins that I never got to have. They said that that right there is worth it. >> No, having the cousin thing, it's a real problem. You were fortunate all you got down to your generation without having because it it gets it gets ugly. >> Yeah. You know what's interesting is and I I have been meaning to bring this up with my parents, but our whole lives they said the reason our family and businesses made it is because only one sibling was interested in the business and took it over. They they said that our whole our whole lives. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, I think it's funny. I I try to tell my dad all the time. And I'm like, "Dad, like, you know," and we all have great relationships with each other, but I'm like, "Would you have wanted to be in a business with your sister?" And he's like, "Oh, no." You know, not that I don't love my brother, uh, you know, and I don't I think it's great, but family businesses are hard. >> No, I can tell you from personal observation of extremely well-known Chicago businesses, ugly as can be. It can be very, very bad. Not just a little bad. I always say family businesses are either great or horrendous. Not a whole lot in between really. Just not a whole lot. So, I applaud your bravery and doing what you think is the smartest thing for yourself. >> Thanks. >> You know, Bailey, I think part of this is just the idea of having a partner. Uh a lot of business owners walk away from a job or some other alternative way of making uh a living and choose to be a business owner because they don't want to have a boss and they don't want to answer to anybody else, you know, like a partner. Jay happens to be one of those business owners. In this case, what you were facing was having a partner who was also a family member, which it sounds like that that made it more fraught. You're talking about possibly going into business in some other way with your husband is one thing I suppose, but would you want to partner in that kind of business or is that part of the issue here too? >> I think it's part of it for sure. Um, it's so funny these these stories that you're told like as you're growing up and how they stick with you. But, um, I had I had a business law professor and he he started every single class saying, "Do not get in a business partnership." So much so that he'd say it and we'd have to finish the sentence because it was like it was his thing. because he had he had done so much litigation involving business partnerships and seen them blow up and you know I think there's I think it's a very special unique relationship for you to be able to be business partners with someone >> you know what that's an occupational hazard of being a lawyer there are plenty of good partnerships I'm not arguing with them though I would say probably more bad than good but that's just a stupid comment you should never there are some extremely successful partnerships where one does the front one does the back so to blanket it all with I've seen too many laws suit. That certainly is a reason to be extremely careful and I wouldn't recommend a partnership, but I would certainly never say to never get a partner, >> right? Yeah, I think that's fair, Jay. Yeah, I think never. I think, you know, speaking in absolutes is is always like, you know, let's question that for a second. But I think for me personally, it would take a unique special person for me to be willing to go into business with them. >> Here's the most haunting conversation I've had with someone. I was in YPO many, many years ago. I'm talking to a guy about my age, 30 some at the time. He has two kids, uh, I don't know, eight and five, and he owned with his brother and his father. They owned a chain of small stores, like six of them or something. And he decided he didn't think the future was bright for it. And he wanted out, so he wanted them to buy him out and they wouldn't give him any money. So he takes them to court. So I look at him and I say, "Wow, your mother must be at the end of her rope distraught." And he looked me in the eyes and he said, "My mother thinks I'm a worthless piece of and never wants to talk to me again." And I just thought, "Oh my god." The mother gave up her grandchildren, her son. >> How did you tell your brother? >> I told him kind of just same same as my as my parents. We went to dinner and I said, "Hey, I have some hard news." And I told him, "I love you and I care about you." and I affirmed some good things that I see in him in in in the business and I just said, you know, for me, I just need to only be in a family relationship with you guys and not be in a business one. But, you know, this isn't a new conversation for me and my brother. We've been talking about this since since he came into the business. Um, we've been having very open conversations about things that um bother us about each other. you know, we were we were very big on having like a a a one-way street and trying to not talk around each other, but to each other. And I I do think that we did that well. And a lot of that is to his credit. Um he's kind of like a, you know, cut cut through the BS and let's just talk about it kind of person. And so we we've been talking about it for a while. So I don't think he was surprised. Um but still hard. You answered the question before I asked it, which is going to be there's some issues there that are bothersome and I I'm I was hoping you did try to fix it. So, you're saying it sounds like you did. I mean, you gave it a good shot and concluded that this is not resolvable enough to where you'd be comfortable. So, you know, I'm glad you tried. >> Yeah, I'm I'm really glad we did, too. And I'm I think that we're all stronger for it. I think it's really hard sometimes to just be real and talk about it, especially as you're learning how to have that type of relationship with your brother or your parents or or whoever it is. But yeah, and I don't think I'd even call it issues necessarily. It was just like it's that it's, you know, I'm his sister and he's my brother and we go back to those roles, you know, that we that we grew up in. And also, we just had, you know, some some different ideas about how we do it and neither bad or good, just different. >> I have to tell you, I'm a little surprised. I thought that this conversation was going to be, you know what, I really love accounting and I decided I really want to do accounting because the management stuff I don't love. I didn't think it was going to be that you just decided you didn't want to be in family with business because I knew it was one of the two. But um that's interesting. >> I was thinking about before we got on this podcast. I thought, well, I was like, this is basically just going to be a therapy session. And that's the interesting thing about family businesses, right? is like how do you find the balance between the personal and the family relationship and the professional side of it which I think is anyone that's in a a family business they're trying to navigate that. >> So it's a therapy session for both you and Jay because you're on both sides of it. >> Yeah. It's been a really eyeopening thing for me for the last year of just figuring it out. And I probably said it before for the sake of those that didn't hear it. The three things I've learned is one is you don't understand the damage having your kid in the business. If they don't fit there or whatever, you don't really understand what that's going to do to your business. Two, there's a genetic piece to this that I believe that there's certain parts owning a business that there's a genetic makeup for and just like you couldn't teach me to climb mountains or you couldn't teach me to do a lots of things, there's certain aspects of this of being a business owner that just are innate and are genetic. And thirdly, you're not doing your kid any favor to try to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. And hence, and I think this is pretty accurate, they say only 20% of businesses get to the next generation. And I can understand why now. >> I haven't heard that stat before, Jay. That's that's interesting. >> I've heard it from lots of people. Yeah. >> Well, your business is the exception clearly, Bailey. Um, multiple generations. >> So, I have a friend who I've known for years. He's in the frame business. And uh he sends this youngest kid here to, you know, take a tour and, you know, so I, you know, tell him what I think, blah, blah, blah. And the kid's really into it and sharp and great. And I called him. I go, "Bill, you pulled something off that I couldn't pull off. You got a kid taking over the business." And we realized that's cuz he had four kids and I only had three. >> It's the odds. You got to have four for the tw for the 20% to work. You need the four. >> That's so funny. J, I'm curious. So, do you think with your your kids being in the business, I think when you have that parent child relationship, it can go well, it can go many ways, but I think one of the one of two ways that it normally goes is either the parent is super hard on the kid, you know, or they have all these blind spots and they don't see what the kid's doing and they can't evaluate them fairly. What do you think? Do you think you fall in one of those two camps? My oldest one is in real estate, does well. He's doing his thing. And my other two, one is here. He does all the computer stuff and he's very good at it and gets along with everyone well. And he has made it clear he doesn't want to take the business over. His wife's an eye doctor. He's made it clear from day one he doesn't want to take the business over. And the youngest one is just not suited to own the business. And there's stuff that I relish about this business, whether it's the people or the buildings I bought. and it like doesn't mean anything to him. And you know, none of my three kids could frame a picture. They couldn't go to the saw and cut something. They I you know, my business is in the city. My kids grew up in the suburb. They didn't work here during the spring break. They didn't work. So, I realized this is my thing. And um >> Jay, >> yeah, >> you're not coming close to answering Bailey's question, >> which is what do I No, I don't think I'm um Oh, I No, I think I'm cleareyed on I I am answering it. I do think I know I am watching and I I think I am cleareyed and not too hard. I think that it's obvious that this isn't the right fit. >> How do you remain cleareyed? Like, do you bring other staff into it? Do you ask them what they think? Oh, the staff brought theirel into it because I I that's part of one of the issues that um it didn't go well and um it is what it is and it took me a while to finally it and like I said I think he will be happy you're doing something else and um >> so maybe you did have some blind spots. Maybe there were things the staff saw that you didn't see. >> Um >> no shame in that. >> No, no, I'm sure that I didn't understand. That's why I say those three things I came up, it took me a while to figure that out. I really didn't understand the do. I mean, you got to remember I got people here for 20, 30 years. They put him through college. You know, some of them were here when he was born. I mean, it's it's comp here's one that this word is overused, but in this case, it's true. It's complicated. That's for sure. It's complicated. And um I'm sure that I didn't understand it full enough going into it and didn't think about it enough for sure. With that being said, no damage done. I tried. He tried. I tried. Um in my middle one, I I'm not going to He doesn't want to take over the business. Now, I don't mean this as a joke, and it will sound like a joke, but I mean it sincerely. I think I'll become I'm hoping, if I say healthy, I'm hoping to be coming to work in 15 years. In 15 years, my 13-year-old grandson will be 28. Maybe he's taking it over. I knew you'd laugh, but it's true. It does happen. He'll be 28 years old. >> That's the fourth kid. >> Yeah. I, you know, I don't know that that won't happen. And I've also got some 30ome year olds that work for me who I'm putting a lot of energy into that, you know, I think, you know, maybe one of them can run it. >> At the last podcast, Jay, you offered to adopt Bailey if she would come and take over the business. Is that offer still stand? >> Absolutely. >> We got deep dish pizza. about Bailey. It's not as cold as they say it is here. >> I don't know. I've been I've been watching ER reruns and it seems like there's a lot of rain. >> No, that's just for dramatic effect. Absolutely not. >> Bailey, obviously it wasn't the main reason, but I'm curious to any extent were you concerned about the uh sustainability of the industry of retail in general, furniture in particular? >> Yeah, that's a good question. You know, it's it's hard to to dissect everything because it nothing's ever black and and white, right? I remain optimistic about the furniture retail space. I think that familyowned businesses are the backbone of brick andmortar retail furniture. And you know, we we're part of lots of different trade groups and we go to lots of different conferences and we're just a copy and paste of of a furniture retailer in every single city and area of the country of that have been in it since even before the 1950s and their third, fourth, fifth generation. and and they're going strong because I think something that's interesting about furniture retail is you you can't go sit on a couch that that you get in uh delivered to you at your door that you bought online. And if you want to return it, there's some people that do it, okay? But it's a lot harder to return a couch than it is the sweater you didn't like. You know, I think that like every industry, the furniture retail industry definitely needs to pivot to figure out how to thrive in in this landscape and the ever changing ways that things look. And I think the challenge for retailers that are family-owned, and I was talking to Jay about this um offline earlier, but the way that we advertised in the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or early thousands, it didn't really change that much. But it's the game has changed so much with the internet and digital advertising and not having print. And I think the retailers that are willing to adapt with this landscape, I think they're going to figure it out. I I think if I'm honest with myself, do I have a lot of energy towards figuring that out in this specific space with my family in this furniture store that I've grown up with my whole life in the small town where, you know, people tell me they saw me in commercials when I was a baby. No, I don't. I don't have a lot of energy towards it. But I I do think that there's a space for furniture retailers. They just have to figure out how they're going to stay surviving in it. I I will tell you cuz I'm in the furniture business. There's no guessing here. Half as many people are moving today as were you know 3 4 5 years ago. If 40% of the furniture bought in America is bought because people move, well there's the 20%. So it's not making up excuses. There's no question the furniture industry is down 20 30% because of the high interest rates. At some point, even if interest rates don't go down, people are going to have to start moving again. They're downsizing. They're having babies. They're losing jobs. I mean, they're going to have to start moving. So, I do think the furniture industry will come back. So, we are dealing with that at the moment. >> Yeah, for sure. And I think like anything, there's winners and losers when when the economy does what it does. And there's already a lot of players that have left the market in this time and so things readjust and you know something about my family business is we have made it through a lot. So I think that there's a lot of resiliency and it built up and how we've done it and you know I that's lessons learned for me for whatever I do next. >> How are you approaching that? How are you thinking about what you might do next? Yeah, if anyone has any uh maybe we need to have another uh panel of people can help me figure it out. >> She's gonna open up a furniture store to compete with her brother. >> But, you know, >> yeah, I'm just going to throw the whole like family ties, you know, worried about relationships and just throw it out the window and open up a competition across the street. You know, I'm being really thoughtful about it and I'm taking it slow. I'm in the time of my life where I'm having babies. And so, you know, I I I'm trying to tell myself that, my husband says this all the time. He's like, "Life feels really short, but it's it also can't be long." And so, I think that I'm in a unique season right now where I I want to get my kids to the to kindergarten and I want to focus on them and I don't want to rush into anything. So, I'm trying to just do a lot of self-reflection of what is it that I'm good at? What do I enjoy? What do I want my life to look like? Um, right. I listen I don't know if either of you are familiar with Bnee Brown. >> Not deeply, but I know who you're talking about. No, I'm probably her target demographic. But she talked about uh you know her and her husband kind of looked at their life and they had had all these priorities of what they wanted their life to look like they had written down and then they looked at all the decisions they'd made in the last two years and all of them were in direct opposition to what they wanted their life to look like. So I'm trying to take that seriously and really think about okay you know I I have the opportunity to to start from scratch here. you know, what do I want my life to look like? And so, I'm just sitting in that I'm I'm taking some breaths. >> I would encourage you to take some tests. They're unbelievably accurate from what I've seen. Like, I took the DISC test not long ago. >> It was really eyeopening. It it tells you your personality type. And it was it was really insightful and gave me food for thought. And luckily, it didn't tell me, "Oh, that's why you shouldn't be in business." Disc is, you know, it I forgot what it stands for. Driven. Yeah. D was driven. So I got a 92 there and then they kept going down as they went along the thing. It would be good to test yourself. And then the second thing I would say is don't mix up business ownership with entrepreneurship. They're not the same thing. You walked into a business that was around for generations and didn't have to worry about making payroll and growing and do we pick the right location. You start from scratch. That's what the word entrepreneur means in French. Taking risk. That's a whole another animal. Which is why I got to tell you buying a business might be the smartest thing. you see what you're getting, you can do the math on it and not suffer through the pains of a startup. They say there's a gray tsunami now. All of the baby boomers are getting older and are going to have to do something with their business unless their kids take it over. So, you're kind of taking advantage of the 80% that don't have somebody to take it over in the family. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's great advice, Jay. Uh I was going to I was going to see if you could let me guess your disc. Uh but I think you told us you're a D. I was gonna get and the I was pretty high, but then the last two really really tanked. I forgot what the Do you know what's the other one stand for? >> Steady and conscientious. >> Yeah, right. Got much lower there. >> Yeah, >> Bailey, when you fantasize about what you might do next, do you see yourself owning a business? And do you see a particular type of business? >> Yeah, I think this is this is a fun question, right? The thing that I love about owning a business is is the employees and getting to make a difference in their life. And Jay actually talked about this earlier about how some of his employees saw their kids grow up. And I think one the second hardest thing about this decision to leave the business is is leaving my family. Yes. But leaving back some of those employees who feel like family to me because they have been in it since I was a a junior hireer who was like probably full of attitude and you know they still have been so kind to me throughout this process uh of of growing up in the business. And so I think that I I love the idea of of having employees and being able to make the works a place where they enjoy it and they thrive and they can go home and say they enjoy what they're doing. And I think I think that's what I enjoy the most. I enjoy creating systems. I enjoy uh building things. I enjoy working with people. I enjoy being in the community. So, I think that there's lots of different businesses that could you could kind of like check my boxes. >> I'm thrilled to hear you figure that out because I didn't think of it for many years. You know, I always say it's not the income that matters, it's the outcome. And I feel great that I've had a profound impact on a whole lot of people. And every day I go to work, part of the reason I go to work is I feel great that I'm giving people jobs and treating them well. And I'm glad you said that because that shows you're not just, oh, I love accounting because nothing wrong with just loving accounting, but what you said is far more, you know, relevant to someone who owns a business than just doing the accounting piece. So, you sound like a good business owner. All right, we got to find you a business to buy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Help me out. Just in case somebody listens to this who has a business who thinks you might be appropriate for it, just give us an example of the type of business that would allow you to enjoy all the things you just described. >> Yeah. I mean, I think there's so many businesses that fit that bill, right? like any business that has already hopefully like established that culture a little bit and cares about the community and cares about their people and wants to leave the business, but they're they're worried about leaving behind their employees and want to know that they'll be taken care of. Like that's what I care about the most. Um I I do love retail. I think retail's really fun. I think it's hard, but it's fun. Um and you know, I think there's there's so many different ways businesses are ev evolving now. So they're not just your your brick and mortar. My husband's a data scientist. Uh he offers tons of tons of that types of services on on the side and he's starting up a business. So and we're enjoying doing that. >> The interesting part of that is yes, you could buy a company that has a great corporate culture or you could buy a company that has some great fundamentals that doesn't have a great corporate culture that if the person ran it better, they'd be far more successful. I have seen that where people take over other businesses and make them way better than they were because they're better managers. So it might be the opposite. Maybe you're better off looking for a dysfunctional company that needs somebody to come in and run it better. >> Yeah, maybe >> much better priced. >> Yeah, that's a whole another conversation, too. I you know, I I when when culture set, I think it's sometimes really hard to to turn it around, but you know, it's fun. It's a fun idea. >> It usually requires changing a couple of people and all of a sudden it the culture obviously is the people. So if there's only six people there, >> yeah, >> I've seen this. All it would take is one to mess the whole corp. That old adage, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. There's there's some truth to that. I've seen it. Um, so who knows? Uh, just identifying somebody who is not the right culture could make a huge impact on the business. And I've seen business owners that just ignore it and think that, oh no, they're so important. I I put up with it. And they I've seen them just almost ruin the business. >> Yeah. Yeah. We I mean, I've seen that. We've seen that in the furniture business and even in our store, right? We have four four different locations where well eight different physical buildings where people work and sometimes you just got to get rid of one and turns around. >> Well, you have eight stores. >> Well, we have four different retail like locations but we have eight buildings where people physically work. >> Oh. Oh. >> You know, like the warehouses, we have a admin center. So, each of those are kind of their own little cultures within the big culture. And and it's interesting how a sour apple can get in there and it starts to spread in that location and then it moves and then we realize that's the source and it's gone within a month. >> Bailey, did we miss anything? >> Man, I think the only other thought I have about all this is, you know, it has been incredibly hard and and bittersweet to to walk away. And you know, there's there's definitely days I'm like, "Oh man, like why why am I doing this?" But the analogy that I've been holding on to is the kind of the idea of of of building your dream house. So, you know, it's a lot easier to go and pick one off the market and a little cheaper that way and it probably has like 80% of what you want, but there's also opportunity and it it takes some time. It's a little bit more expensive to to build a a custom home just like you like it. And, you know, my my philosophy is always we get one life, right? And even though I think that me having if I chose to take over the business, I think it still would have been great. You know, I think it would have been 80% there. And you know, I'm I'm I'm grateful that I'm in the position that I can say no and and hope for something that's a little bit closer to what I need for my life. And so I'm trying not to have a scarcity mindset in all this and know that I still have my whole life in front of me and still many doors to open and close. And even though this one was a really hard one to close, I'm hopeful that two things will happen. One, I think that I think this will be good for my family in the long term, like my my immediate family, but also my parents and my brother. I I'm hoping I'm making a decision that sets up our family for success. But two, I do think it's it's setting me up for for whatever it is that comes next, even if I never own a business. Um that it'll be it'll be a better fit for me. >> Here's a new thought you probably haven't thought of. This doesn't necessarily mean it's permanent. Things change, life changes. Who knows? Maybe in four years, maybe in four years your brother will, you know, evolve and grow up more and your parents change or you change. Who knows? Just you you never know. Maybe maybe you'll be back. >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm open-minded that something could change, right? I kind of like we said earlier, I don't want to say I don't want to ever use never. >> Is anybody still trying to talk you into it? >> Uh, not really. >> They've accepted your decision. >> I think they know. They They know that I'm I'm not like someone who just is going to willy-nilly be like, I'm not doing this. They they they know I've it's been a very thoughtful time time decision that I've made. But but even as the parent, you don't want to talk your kid into doing this. I mean, and they know better. You just you don't want to be talking your kid into doing something like this because it they said they don't want to do it. I mean, I think that's difficult as a parent sometimes to accept, but you know, you have to accept that the last thing you want to do is put them into a situation they don't want to be in. And I'm sure on some level your parents are happy that you, you know, made your own decision and you're doing what you want to do. I think maybe I'll call him later and see how they really feel. >> They'll get they'll give you the the real real. >> Yeah. Alternatively, you could move to Chicago, Bailey, and solve your problems and Jay's problems. >> Maybe I'll send you a frozen deep dish pizza just to just as a taster so you'll know it's here. Have you been to Chicago? >> Only once. >> Okay. Maybe I'll have to do like a PR blitz and uh dispel some of the rumors. It's not the Windy City. That's not windier than anywhere else. Now, you say it rains a lot. Well, you're in the desert there, so okay. I guess anything sounds like a lot of rain, so it doesn't rain that much. Uh, all right. I'll put together a PR package and we'll send it off to you. >> I would be thrilled to get a deep dish pizza in the mail from you. That would that would make that make not my day like my >> You're on, Jay. Bailey, thank you for doing this. Tell your family they all have the right to equal time. And if anybody's interested, uh, they know where to find me. >> Okay. Billy, seriously, thank you for doing this. I I hope um it it's been great for us. I hope it's been helpful to you as well. >> Yeah. No, so helpful. And I think doing the original podcast was definitely a step in the journey to get to the decision. So, I'm really grateful for everyone that that sat in there and uh gave me advice and time because it truly was it truly was a part of part of the process. >> All right. Thanks, Jay. Thanks, Bailey. [Music] One thing before you go. Everything we do at 21 Hacks is created by entrepreneurs for entrepreneurs to help us all learn together. If you get something out of listening to these podcast episodes, consider joining the conversation. You can do that by joining the 21 Hats sounding board, a Slack channel where you can tap the wisdom of a very smart crowd or by becoming a founding member and joining our monthly Zoom forum where you can be part of conversations much like the ones we have on the podcast. You can sign up for both by subscribing to the Morning Report. If you have any questions, you can email me at lauren21hats.com. And if you get something out of this podcast or out of the morning report, please tell a friend, tell an enemy, tell every business owner you know. Your word of mouth owner to owner will always be the most effective way to build this community for all of us. Thank you. It means a lot. This episode was produced by another entrepreneur, Jess Stubberon, founder of Blank Word Productions. Thanks for listening, everyone. [Music]