Dude, You’re Gonna Get on an Airplane?

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman this week our conversation focused on issues each of our three business owners is confronting as they get back to business we talked about whether it's safe to start flying again what you do if you run out of inventory and whether there's any way owners can prepare for the possibility of a second shutdown we also discussed how you entice employees who've either been happy working from home or have be collecting enhanced unemployment back into the office do you offer Hazard pay and if so how much and when do you stop paying Hazard pay we're trying to stay in business for God's sake said Jay goz we will have been shut down for 2 and 1/2 months and there's a point where I'm the only one that's going to be losing money in this deal at the end of the day they're getting extra money from the government for unemployment they're getting Hazard pay everybody at the end of the year is going to have a banner year for income and I'm going to lose hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars this week's 21 hat podcast lineup features Jay whose businesses in Chicago include a picture frame shop artist frame service and a home furnishing store Jason Hol Karen Clark Cole who is CEO of blink a user experience research and design firm based in Seattle and Laura Xander co-founder and CEO of Jimmy beans wool a digital version of a neighborhood yarn shop that is based in Reno Nevada even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will if nothing else let owners know they are not alone in facing these extraordinary challenges if you know a friend who might benefit from this conversation please share it you can subscribe wherever you get Podcast and if you do please review us and rate US it makes a big difference if you have questions or suggestions you can always email them to me my email address is L Feldman at21 hats.com this episode is called dude you're going to get on an airplane before we get started I'm here with Adam witty who is the founder and CEO of Advantage Forbes books which helps entrepreneurs write and publish their own books Adam I know you think all entrepreneurs should consider writing a book why is that a book is the most powerful marketing tool in the world it's a way for you to share your story and your company's story without anyone ever feeling like they are being sold to it builds Authority it builds credibility it builds expertise for you and your business and we're recording this in the middle of this unprecedented crisis is now a good time to write a book uh Believe It or Not Lauren I would argue now is a better time probably than ever before entrepreneurs and business owners have an unpress precedented amount of time on their calendar that quite frankly they did not think that they would have we are working with entrepreneurs all over the world who are using this unexpected downtime to create an asset for their business that will pay dividends for the rest of their career if someone does write a book how will they know if it's effective as a marketing tool they use a book as a sleuth marketing tool to generate new customers uh to advertise their business and ultimately to help convert uh prospects into customers and for many entrepreneurs a customer can be worth hundreds thousands even tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and so one new customer into your business can more than pay for the book uh speaking opportunities PR and media opportunities those are some of the other benefits I know a lot of entrepreneurs who've wanted to write a book and have never quite gotten around to it how do you help somebody in that situation we do our best to make it as easy and painless as possible and we do that by first pairing you with a master book planner who spends some time interviewing you and those interviews turn into a blueprint for your book then we assign a ghost writer to work with you to ask you questions about that Master book plan to interview you it's all done over the phone Lauren so it's super easy those interviews are then ultimately turned by The Ghost Writer into the manuscript of your book if someone wants to learn more wish they go we have a free copy of my bestselling book titled book the business and we're offering a discovery consultation to any 21 hats subscriber that wants to learn more Advantage family.com sl21 hats you heard him go to Advantage family.com sl21 hats to get Adam's book and to sign up for your consultation now back to the show so let's start with a quick update uh Karen we haven't spoken with you in a couple of weeks is uh is Blink still doing reasonably well yeah things are going well we're starting to um work on a back to work plan um a phased approach over the summer let let me clarify you you've been working all through this by back to work I assume you mean back into the office correct back into the office plan yep yeah we everyone has been very busy and in fact um we are uh slightly above 20% growth for the year consistently even over the covid times wow hey so I want to interrupt sorry um so you're you're back to the office plan um how how are you going to do this like I've got quite a few people who are really getting comfortable working from home yeah we're not so sure that they're going to want to come back and you know part of me doesn't blame them so I've been thinking maybe we require them we let them work from home two days a week for a yeah Laura I'm one of those people I'm quite comfortable sitting here at home with my cat and my birds and my dog um oh my God you're like the old cat lady uhhuh oh yeah totally I hope you keep the cat away from the birds cat's watching the birds out the window it's great it's a little show anyway um what what we're doing is um you're right um most importantly though we're we're asking people to continue working at home if they can throughout the summer um at at least you know until further notice is what we're saying so we're saying if you can it's still um the best advice is still to continue working from home as long as you can um that's the safest for our employees and for their families and also we're trying to allow space in the community and in our offices for those who need to go back so if if you don't need to go back we're asking people please don't there are some people who are um they've got a lot of distractions at home they don't have a good office set up it is more difficult for them to work um and other people are just lonely they're they're in an apartment by themselves and they can't take it anymore and so whatever the reason is we're letting everyone just decide you may have a space reason you know a a you know all kinds of different reasons um and we're not going to judge any of that so if anybody wants or needs to come back to work so we have a few people who once we open up like hosts that will actually need to be in the office um then we're going to we're doing a poll actually I just sent the notice out today so on Monday we're going to call people and find out who actually wants to come back and then we'll create a office plan for for the number of people who will be in the office so in terms of spacing desks apart um the guideline is still going to be start and this is all starting in June so phase two is slated to be starting early June and of course that could change but right now we're saying we're going to open our offices beginning of June and we'll create the proper safety structures in the offices for people to come back safely and so that's meetings of no more than five people um we'll keep the desk apart we'll still use all the um sanitizing and those kind of um protocols will be in place um and and are you getting resent are you picking up any resentment from the people that have to be in the office and that don't have there are very few of them there's like two people that actually need to be there so no no what about you J sorry I got a big problem with it no I got a big problem with it I've got half of my businesses shut down completely because it's the framing business and there's no accommodation out there for being open and my home store sells I have about a 7,000 foot lot outside selling plants now so I got a full load of plants so I can be open the city already came in last night to audit us because someone complained and they admitted it was probably a competitor Jay let's clarify there you Chicago has not allowed all retail to open you're kind of using a little bit of a loophole that you're no it's not a loophole it's not a loophole it said it's no loophole it black and white says if you sell if you sell live product Nursery products and you're selling to landscapers you can be open so I'm open but you're not just selling the plants you're opening your whole home store which if you didn't sell plants you wouldn't be able to open yes exactly but Home Depot's open and it's it's selling all kinds of stuff that's not allowed but because because so it's not a loophole it's just but that explains you have competitors who are not open and that's why not probably none of them are open they don't sell plants so they're they're trying to you know poke me in the eye and it's like tough luck you know and and we and they said you're doing everything right everyone's wearing a mask uh everyone's six feet away we're cleaning everything of course there's someone that comes in that was just waiting for an opportunity and my guy says to him you know what you need to wear a mask so what does this guy do he's got to go back home get on Yelp and roast us for I'm a doctor I'm a surgeon and this is baloney and no one's going to tell me to wear a mask and he goes into a whole tiate about this whole thing is overblown and Northwestern hospitals half empty and blah blah blah blah blah and it's like really hey are you really a doctor and what an embarrassing thing for doctors everywhere like we're just following the law and it just I was waiting for this though and then he went and did it also to um Whole Foods you know so he's going around because he's got nothing to do but going after people who are trying to follow the law and stay safe Jay when you started this you said that you have a big problem is is that the problem that you were referring to no no the problem is so the people are coming into work in the home store dealing with customers not thrilled and I got people sitting at home getting paid doing nothing and so of course they think well wait a second I like that program better I like to be home doing nothing and getting paid so what you do about it what we're gonna do is we're going to pay haard pay to the people that are coming into work and give them and then of course the the and I very very appreciative of the PPP but the SBA and I've read a lot about this refuses has refused up till now has continues to refuse to give any guidance on this so when you say you can pay Hazard pay what does that mean can I pay 30% more 50% more 10% more and you've got a bunch of law firms and accountants out there trying to read the tea leaves all admitting they don't know but going well our impression is our op opinion is our guidance is so I don't know exactly how much isn't that an optional thing that you can just pay what you want no yes yes and no I can but the question is is the PPP police gonna come in and say oh no you can't pay Hazard pay of 50% well you can do it the question is whether the loan will be forgivable right right well but they don't care they're not looking at each individual it's the sum total isn't it it's just the dollar value plus the FTE who knows that's my impression Laura that's my understanding yeah you're using the same words it's your understanding your me too I agree with all of you but like who knows this doesn't answer the question but they have said that they will automatically uh audit any loan in the amount of more than $2 million and they will spot check loans of less than $2 million I'm less than $2 million so that is again some of the stuff for instance there's some good I mean there's this is what I've been doing for a week I'll give you the black and white and I'll give you the gray the black White is you can absolutely hire people to replace people left no problem you can um um and that's that's about the only black and white one I have the gray ones are can you wait a week or two I'm gonna guess probably not so I already started it I I immediately put everyone on it the gray ones how much Hazard pay can you pay no clue no guidance whatsoever um and can you pay vacation pay I'm not going to do that anyway but some people are asking that again no guidance so I'm going to take us I'm going to pay some Hazard pay and then if the employee is still not happy about it there's a point at which like you know what we we're trying to stay in business till you all have jobs I'm sorry if uh and this is a word I've I don't let anyone use the word Fair because I don't believe that word fits in business is it the right thing to do um yeah we're going to give a little more money to people that are working but if they want to go well that's not fair they're not working okay life isn't fair I don't know what to tell you Karen has anything come up for you or do you have any concerns about meeting the requirements for the uh forgiv ability with your PPP loan no uh we're being pretty careful but again it's like Jay said it's a little bit hard to understand it and the oh it's very murky there's no question about that yeah it seems the rules are changing but um you know in any event it'll still be the cheapest loan we could ever get so we're looking at it like that Laura what's going on with Jimmy Bean wool um kind of a hybrid you know of what Karen's talking about and what Jay's talking about so with the different businesses so we just got got notice yesterday that we can open our retail all retail can be open and restaurants can be open starting Friday I believe wow um in the state of Nevada Friday meaning a week from today when we're taping this or meaning today oh wait today is Friday uh what what's the date it's easy to forget what day it is uh today is Friday May 8th God she's got to go now okay yeah tomorrow I guess tomorrow I think tomorrow Saturday yeah okay well then I meant Saturday Jesus it ends in a day um unless it's different I'm in Midwest it's still Friday here I don't know what it is um so I think I I guess as of tomorrow uh and you know retail stores are only supposed to have 50% capacity and blah blah blah so from the Jimmy Bean standpoint what we're starting to talk about is what does reopening look like for us we're not going to open tomorrow we don't really have any plans for multiple reasons um you know our main our retail store manager is an older guy he's in his 60s and is very uncomfortable working with the public and so he's been he's self furloughed uh a long time ago so we don't really have the staff to man the retail store right now so what we're talking about doing is you know do we do two hours a day or two hours three days a week um you know and our clientele is typically uh skews on the older side as well so but it's it's not a big issue for you right Laura I mean you you don't really need to open your retail store and that's the other part of it yes so we don't really need to um you know we may just start with curbside pickup uh so you know it becomes more of a community service because you know the knits are going to go crazy you know they're going crazy at home they need their yarn can I tell you about my curbside pickup um there ripping up the street in front of my business right now to put in some new cable things so my curbside pickup now has a 50 foot long truck out in front the entire Street has now got construction guys ripping up the sidewalk it is a good time to be doing Street work Jay I said that really I it's better now than month I I have a question about that though the curbside pickup is a totally different set of logistics and so are you guys just suddenly learning how to do curbside pickup or or how are you dealing with that we walk at uh they drive up and they open their trunk and we in our case we left the product out in the yard I have a you know the parking lot adjacent to the building and they put it in their car and they leave and I got to tell you other than this doctor guy if he is a doctor everybody's extremely appreciative and happy to be out and happy to support us and it's really been it's it's it's one extreme or the other it's a Love Fest on one side where they're thrilled to be able to come in and and stuff or they got a problem but I've only had one guy that's given us any issues Jay you basically o opened that store last week during our uh taping of this podcast uh how has the past week been has business come back at all yeah absolutely people are coming in and I will tell you my friend in Arizona uh Hall of Frames um he's got Aid stores they just opened up for appointments and he said he's crazy busy so I keep telling everybody anybody he's requiring people to make an appointment before coming in yes yes but I keep telling everyone anyone who thinks they can predict what's going to happen they're guessing because you know it depends what business you're in depends what there's plenty of people that have been sitting home not spending money that're going crazy they can't wait to go out and spend money and then there's other people who have used up their money so like there's there's no one siiz fits all to this thing some people are going to be just great and some people are going to be devastated there G be some people in between um we had a huge bump in business um those couple days that the stimulus checks all hit oh I mean huge like record-breaking days wow I mean which is almost it was a little disturbing to me as a saver you know I'm like oh my God all these people got their stimulus checks and they went out and bought BL it on yarn they're blowing it on yarn I mean awesome yeah probably I guess exactly but yeah you're right yeah and we may go the appointment route as well so we're just kind of trying to figure it out I mean the Texas side of things again you know we're a wholesale business business and it's just dead you know I mean our sales have dropped so much so we're taking this time right now um that's that's why I was a little late on this call to talk through QC procedures um you know really cleaning up all the things that have been neglected in this business for the last few years so retraining everybody we're bringing in somebody that was a a master D years ago and she's going to start retraining um and I'm actually I just bought a ticket to head down to Texas next week so whoa dude you're going to get on an airplane I am you are such a brave Soldier wow Fearless I know it is what it is and um I did just see a report actually we had it in the uh 21 hats morning report that for some people they're saying it's actually a relatively nice time to fly you kind of get the plane to yourself they're no lines anywhere um there there are some advantages to it you probably don't have to smell anybody's bad breath because they've all got masks the the food choices at the airports are are somewhat lacking at the moment I think well but keep keep in mind you know like in Washington state anyway we're still under shelter at home order so we're not allowed to unless it's really necessary well and if you get on the plane there's other people near you all you have to do is give out one little and that'll be it they'll run to the back of the plane so totally you can clear the whole half of the plane for yourself um but I also you know I just had a conversation yesterday with the owner of a trade show that I had gone to in January in New York and I had had dinner with him and we had gone to a Broadway show and you know we hugged um we hugged we sat at the same table together right across from each other you know blah blah blah and um he confirmed yesterday that he has not gotten the anybody test but he's like after we had dinner you know a couple days later I had 103 temperature I he had every one of the symptoms he's like I am 99% positive and I think I've told you guys that a bunch of your people got sick really sick thousands of people from this show got sick that's how it spreads yeah I'm pretty confident that I've already been exposed they haven't proven yet that if you have had it you won't get it again yeah yeah but I mean I don't know I I maybe naively feel like all of my travels through Asia and India for the last four years I mean going multiple times a year and I have gotten wicked sick like wicked sick over the last few years um there's part of me that kind of hopefully naively thinks that perhaps I've built up a bit of an immunity from licking the I think that's quite possible I think that makes and I'm not a hand washer so even in India like I'm well that's good to know next time I see you I'll keep that Laura last week you expressed concern uh about the supply of yarn you were a little bit nervous that you would run out of product uh I think you said maybe in six weeks has anything changed with that um no we just might run out a little faster so one of our Mills opened this week and they're at 25% capacity when you say one of your Mills that's one of the Mills that A supplier I think you said they were both overseas maybe Peru Brazil yeah we have a there's a mill that we buy from in South Africa and then there's one that we buy from in Peru so the South African one opened at 25% capacity this this week um and the Peruvian one has not quite opened yet so we've put our orders in and I actually prepaid um sent him a note last week and said can I prepay you a big huge chunk because we haven't bought inventory in a while and we've had a little bit of sales so I've been able to take that and hope that maybe we'll get to the front of the queue I gotta tell you I'd be careful with that because I prepaid A supplier in Italy for some molding frame molding and he went busted and I never got paid I lost like a 100 Grand I mean it happen well and and they take the money so I'm just saying I'm not arguing with you gave them 10 20 grand but I I would just be careful because some people will just go broke and take the money your point I mean this business has been around for like 200 years and it's familyowned and we've been also there there are only a couple of suppliers in the whole world right yeah Fair Point I've calculated risk I'm not saying you were wrong I'm just saying calculated risk yeah can you just say that I was right can we just get that on yeah I did I said you're right I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying I'd limit it that's all just in case cuz you know never know any other contingency plans there other ways uh to get yarn we still have some older inventory uh on site that's not current inventory so not current like types of yarn so we can do something with that um we've got enough and we have um what we call kind of replacement Yarns so we have a hodge podge of inventory that is just kind of random you know Jay you've probably got some random stuff at your I have hundred of thousands of dollars of that that I'm working on getting rid of because I should have gotten rid of it before now but for sure now I'm going to get rid of it let me ask you a question there's going to be some knitting shops going closed I assume I'm sure there are yes have you considered sending out an email to everyone you know saying listen if you're thinking of closing and you need to get rid of inventory feel please call me I'm I I'm in a position to you know buy inventory if and then you know you'd be throwing them a life Observer because it's not like they can go sell it out at Cost yeah we maybe could um I think it's funny that what's going to happen is in a year from now we'll see everyone walking around with hodge podge sweaters that they had to knit based on the available yarn it's not that desperate quite yet um but yeah that's that's an interesting thought can you just say that's a great idea Jay can I play that back to you since a little test let me ask you when we first started taping these episodes you were kind of boning the fact that you had excess inventory it sounds like now it turns out that that might actually be a good thing let me tell you what's interesting and I don't want to mention names there's there's some suppliers in this industry and I'm talking about big suppliers that the word on the street is they might be going down because one of them in particular is owned by a big company and they might be done with them and if that happens it is going to create a huge huge hole in the marketplace and then connect D dots I I buy from Italy and Spain they've been shut down now I might end up being the only guy in the United States with a lot of inventory so I went from oh my God I got too much inventory and I sent too many Corner samples out for free to these frame shops to oh my god I've got a lot of inventory what a great thing so I could it's a possibility that in a month or two this thing could be an opportunity for me so I don't mind having a Ware Warehouse full of inventory right now same page same page again I mean depending on the two different businesses that we have but the one the Jimmy beans side of it we had way too much inventory six you know six weeks ago and now it's just going down and down and down to a really healthy spot on the wholesale side you know on our manufacturing side we didn't have enough inventory to begin with because we bought the business with zero inventory so that's where we're really suffering um but it's the same thing thing like our inventory looks better than is healthier than it's ever been as a kind of result of this and of so many of our suppliers being closed and we couldn't get stuff Laura I keep thinking I'm intrigued by the thought of you getting on a plane I'm wondering have you started to do any other things that you hadn't been doing have you been out and about in a way that you hadn't been no not a ton I don't really want to go down there I mean I do because I I love the people down there but I'm going down there because I really kind of have to it's falling apart a little bit I I don't think you're taking any huge risk getting on an airplane at all I I do think there's an element of this and it's I get it I'm not downplaying at all it's extremely serious and tons of people are dying and it's horrible but I do think that something like getting on a plane where there's not a lot of people wearing a mask I I can't and I'm no doctor but I can't imagine that's a major risky thing at this point I'm I'm going to stores as little as I have to but you know I will tell you my head changed a month ago six weeks ago when I went in the store and someone's wearing a mask I'm thinking you idiot and now I go in there they're not wearing a mask I'm going you idiot I mean I I I don't think anybody should be going to the stores without mask on at this point um um and like I said with the customer thing they're getting it I mean we're trying to be respectful to the situation I I will tell you though this is not black and white I'm absolutely not subscribing to the oh every want you to open up if people die they die I but we can't wait until this thing's completely gone either I mean trying to find a reasonable middle to that you know I don't have an easy answer I don't think there is one and you know I so we we can't wait until there's a vaccine made it just that we'll be all out of business yeah I wanted to what I was going to ask you guys about and ask for your advice on was um you had talked about Hazard pay so we're doing the same thing you know with the people that are coming into the warehouse here in Reno um and paying them a percentage and I'm I'm really considering you know do we I'm really worried that once everything opens back up like at what point do you stop giving them Hazard pay and then what about all those people that came to work even though they didn't have to they probably could have filed for they probably could have quit filed for unemployment made no they wouldn't have gotten on the point if they quit why do you think like why did you decide to to give Hazard pay because most of the because they were scared you know a fair number of them were scared in the beginning um and if they get paid more they're less scared yeah you know it shows no they're getting compensated they're getting compensated for taking risk and we need to use up the pp money PPP money and that's a legitimate way to I mean for me it was it was more an acknowledgment of I acknowledge that you could stay home or that you could call in sick or that you could use your PTO but we need you right now and I'm I appreciate the fact that you're coming to work and getting in your car and you know that there is a risk um and especially in the beginning when everything was just so terrifying the media made it so terrifying so but where I'm what I'm a little bit worried about is you know at what point do you stop this Hazard pay and then then where does motivation go you know all of a sudden they've been getting getting paid you know an extra amount and then things go back to normal and you know I'm wondering if I keep it for some of them the ones who have been really reliable and really dependable and have shown up every day I can tell you I'm not grappling with that at all um I'm gonna pay the hazard pay for eight weeks until the PPP thing's done and then if people aren't happy about it you know whenever I do business speeches people say Jay how do you motivate people I believe the secret in my world I'll just say for me in my world it's not about motivating people it's about not demotivating them so I have people that come to work my average person's been here 10 years no problem if they need to be motivated by getting paid extra 30% and they know the company can't afford it like sorry that's the way it is and if they're not happy with that they should go work somewhere else then because there's a certain point to where enough's enough already we're trying to stay in business for God's sakes we've been shut down for we will have been shut down for two and a half months and there's a point to where you know I'm the only one that's going to be losing money in this deal at the end of the day they're they're getting extra money from the government for unemployment they're getting hazra pay everybody at the end of the year is going to have a banner year for income and I'm probably gonna lose I'm gonna lose hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars so there's a point to where it's like yeah I have no guilt about I've treated everyone well I've i' I've compensated them I've done the best I can but if after two months of getting extra pay they come and say GE I really would like you know that's that's unfortunate you feel that way but um you know what I don't know what to tell you I I there's a point where enough's enough already and no that's a great point I just remember I'm coming from a different I'm coming from the last two or three years losing hundreds of thousands and not being able to give raises and not being able to give bonuses and so for two or three years I've asked them all to give me everything that they have and not for it they're getting paid under market right now so wait so then the answer is you go from Hazard pay to just giving them raises of whatever 10% and like that's reasonable that's fair that's you know I that's that's the right thing to do yeah so I mean I'm just so impressed that after years and years of just of us all pushing so hard and pushing so hard and losing money and foregoing raises and not having Christmas party and not doing this and not doing that and not having any money in the bank you know and being freaking terrified constantly that they're all still show they're showing up you know every day here's the problem I'm having I got one person in particular what do you so this is the exact situation I'm in so what do you do when everybody you explain to them look we have to do business we need to stay in business we're going to give you extra money happy to do it and then there's one person that goes yeah I don't want to come back to work yet um I don't have an easy solution like tell them everyone else came back I I got to tell you I need you back here the the the I I won't even do it this month I'll wait until June 1st when the whole State's opened up um on June 1st if you don't want to come back to work then I'm gonna have to replace your job I mean I don't know what choice I have I mean at some point in same spot we have a couple people like that and I don't know what we're gonna do Karen I'd like to ask you about what Jay was staying before about trying to find the the you know the the happy medium um opening back up uh at the right speed not too fast not too slow are you at all concerned that people are jumping the gun around the country yeah the Governor's in um California Washington and I believe Oregon and maybe uh there may be a few more um are all working together with a re-entry plan I'm super impressed with not only our governor but California and a bunch of other states States they're really taking the charge and taking it seriously and making sure that everybody's um safety and well-being is Paramount um over the economy and so you know obviously they're closely related and it's very difficult to make a call to affect someone's livelihood by not allowing them to open their business versus um you know looking at overall Public Health but I think a lot of the what they're really encouraging there's a lot of curbside pickup going on there's a lot of deliveries um and it's really fun for me to sort of watch how people businesses in the Seattle area are pivoting and and being creative and even for us you know we have research Labs really state-of-the-art research labs in our Seattle and San Diego offices and you know how are we going to run research studies in there because that's a one of our researchers Who's acting as the interviewer essentially in close quarters with the participant who's somebody off the street so how can and now we're doing everything remote and there are some studies that we just can't do because it requires a physical you know VR equipment in some cases and so we're busy trying to figure out okay so how can we like what would allow us to be able to do that and so we're looking at um like ozone treatments to sanitize the hardware that you put it in a a in a little case you shut the door it gets sanitized and then the new participant can take it out and put it on and then our moderator is in another room using a robot to communicate with a participant so we're doing all kinds of crazy things like that to try to really pivot and be creative so that we can get back to um serving our clients which they're trying to run their businesses and they need the study to get their business going I'm going to tell you what I find extremely uh disturbing when you watch TV you see some of these states where these people are going to the to the uh you know down to to city hall or down to wherever with guns and and signs and they're like like without mass on and with the constitutional like I get it that sometimes you got to open the business but like to suggest this isn't a real problem and they should all go down there congregating without mass on and just like it's just it's really just unfortunate and um there's no question people are going to die from this unnecessarily and um with that being said you know they're going to have to open up the businesses at some point but they could be more respectful to each other is my point well let me ask you this Jay you know the government can say it's okay to open up but consumers actually have to come back whether you can just flip a switch and turn the economy back on is an open question is there something that you guys as business owners should be thinking about in case this reopening doesn't go well and you have to go through uh the process again um your fear-mongering isn't working again and uh no I I can't predict three months from now and worry about it I'm not asking you to predict I'm asking you if you're prepared no no I'm just going no I don't have an answer no there's nothing to prepare all I can do is try to get rid of some inventory try to keep some cash around and um and and here's here's where it gets interesting there is going to come a moment in time where you do have to say at some point these are grown people if a business owner chooses that they want to open their business and another human being that lives in the United States wants to come in and do business with them where's the line where we say okay it's their call versus a person in the State House who's never run a business in their life and getting a check every Friday well that's a great question but if it would be different if it only affected the two people who are doing business with each other I got it but what about if you're gonna lose your livelihood and everything you've worked for your entire where's is is it I'm saying it's not black and white I'm saying there is a point to where there's risk out there and like I said there will never come a day where everyone's gonna go okay completely done like World War II done done it was over there's not going to come a day where anybody's going to be able to say this thing is completely done open for business no one's going to die we shut down so that we could put ourselves in a position to use that time wisely and ramp up testing and our ability to trace and and we're not doing those things so no no I'm not arguing with that I don't think it's time yet I think we got to get the testing thing done and we got no there's no question but like I said there could come a point where we could say okay all that stuff's done I mean I can't stay closed for a year um well it's it seems to me after what I've been hearing that we can't decide as a community if we're China or if we're Sweden you know do we want to be completely locked down and squash it out or do we want to just open it up and let natural selection take its take its run its course that's a good way to put it Laura I want you to know do you think I'm gonna survive it for natural selection give me your give your best guess Laur no no are you kidding because I'm elderly yeah no because you're ass holy no those are the people that survived haven't you figured that out yet you're so young and naive you think the nice people survive you're too stubborn of course you're gonna survive on that note we are out of time my thanks to Karen Clark Cole Jay goz and Laura Xander really appreciate it guys thank you for taking the time and for sharing what you're going through with this uh be careful out there thanks for listening everybody this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions remember we started the 21 hats podcast to help business owners feel a little less isolated to let them know they aren't the only ones fighting these battles if you got something out of this conversation please help us reach more people tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter at 21h hats and let me know if you have a question or a comment or a topic you'd like us to cover my email address is L Feldman 21h hats.com see you next time [Music]