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Suggest questionIn this episode - we explore a very often asked question as to what age should I be to start my ESOP. One of my favorite aspects of ESOP transactions is that it can be very flexible to structure and it is not always a used as just an exit plan. This podcast focuses on answering questions around the age of shareholders and when would be the best time for them to start the ESOP process - because you know “no one is getting any younger!”
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<p><!--block-->[0:11] Taking my God. <br> <br> [0:22] He's not of a newborn but of a man well in his 80s on his way to the grave of old age cotton tablet looks just like mine. <br> <br> [0:32] My name is Benjamin Benjamin by 9:00 the. <br> 7 but I look a lot older God bless you he 7 engine this is my granddaughter Daisy. <br> Play sick I said I was gonna die soon but maybe not yeah odd. <br> Benjamin Button thank you guys for joining today this is the ESOP guy and we are on a journey to an ESOP season 4, if you've stopped in to listen to today what we're going to talk about is this question that gets an that gets asked all the time and maybe not, you know maybe that's that that first question that's being asked but it's in there is what what age should I be I'm a selling shareholder, I'm a shareholder of a company when should I transition my ownership at what age. <br> <br> [1:28] Benjamin Button movie I think is just a perfect movie to kind of throw in a little bit of a curveball. <br> Into the concept of what age the funny part about life is this no one's getting any younger right. <br> Except for Benjamin Button which is just a movie but it does beg the question like if we're not getting any younger. <br> <br> [1:49] And we know that we want to do something we what what is the Catalyst for us as we start thinking about the the age at which we should start transitioning, am I say transition I'm going to talk a little bit today about both sides the ownership transition side, and the management succession side and in combination of those two things I'm going to get into some of the some of the value points the things that I think are kind of resonate in. <br> <br> [2:21] People's experience and discussions that we might have with with different types of selling shareholders as far as. <br> Answering the question of what age should I be you know to to to do Transition at all and and. <br> <br> [2:36] If you're listening to this you're probably already thinking and maybe you've already gotten through that question but what I what I hope for people that listen to this podcast today at the at the end is is really kind of thinking about, this concrete discussion about what not just what age you should be but also how should you go about planning this transition, now the ESOP is a perfect vehicle for what I would say is a very flexible transition and we'll talk about why that is as well. <br> So again thank you guys for joining if you're new to the podcast welcome we do have a website it's called journey to an ESOP calm so you can go to that, and if you have any questions just going to plug them out there and we will be happy to answer those questions, some things have come up you know as things come up with those questions or as things come up with different experiences with different ESOP transactions we lot of times use. <br> Those types of questions and fill up a topic that we think might be helpful because if you're asking it somebody else might be asking it. <br> For those that are that are just continuing on this journey with us thank you so much for joining if you do have like an apple, iPhone and you want to just subscribe to the podcast you can always hit the Subscribe button it's always helpful just to get the the ongoing updates we've got some cool stuff that's going to be released in the next couple weeks that I think you'll find, very interesting so. <br> <br> [4:05] Let's Segway into the topic for a second and I love this movie because it's weird and it's kind of not a normal type of normal type of. <br> Scenario write it and it begs the question the movie begs the question about life itself. <br> And how we live our lives and so if we we started backwards and we got younger if we started you know as an old person. <br> Which is whole thing is kind of strange but you know I'll admit that but I like talking about it so if we started as an old person and we got younger. <br> <br> [4:39] How would we how would we live our life differently eventually we are all going to die right so we all know that. <br> And one of the things as we start off with contemplating this is, what is the and I've had so many different experiences from people in there you know maybe I'd say late 40s and early 50s thinking about ownership transition even at that age. <br> And we've had people as you know in in their 90's so there's there's like a huge you know I'd say age. <br> Spectrum of people thinking about transition itself but I wanted to start off. <br> With what is the cost of waiting in this is a personal kind of a personal and a business type of of concept when we start thinking about, imagining or conceptualizing what is what's the cost of not doing anything. <br> <br> [5:35] To transition in when we think about transition I want to keep in the context of our conversation for the podcast. <br> They can't the concept of ownership transition and management syringes transition so the idea of I'm selling my actual shares of stock. <br> <br> [5:54] That is independent in not necessarily the same thing as. <br> Transitioning my role in my company my functional responsibilities role I've had ESOP transactions where the owner. <br> Transition to all of their ownership and literally transitioned none of the management responsibilities. <br> And did a hundred percent Nissan and very successful transition he did not in this case want, to step down from that functional role but they did not want for various reasons which we'll talk about did not want the as he's gotten older the ownership. <br> And you know holding on to the ownership and not knowing what's going to happen with it so we ended up being able to park that issue for him, now he's got succession planning going on but it's not like he's given up anything he still at the helm you know even today as we talked he still at the helm of making decisions and directing that company. <br> <br> [6:59] Because you know what that's what he likes to do and so respectfully I just say you know good for him because that's how we've built it, the other side of things I've seen other types of spectrums of discussions where the the owner doesn't want to sell anything and they want to transition all of the management responsibilities. <br> Nothing wrong with that you know in some cases we don't even need an ESOP like just do that and be can have somebody be your custodial management I Corps, you know your president your c00 your people and you're just there you can keep all the equity as long as you want, and so that's what's beautiful about being in the United States at least for now is that we can kind of still choose exactly how we want to do things so. <br> But thinking about these two these two these two kinds of extremes you know there's there's probably a combination of those in people's head like when do we do, does anyone do we do any of those Transitions and I wanted to focus in on the central theme of this is age. <br> <br> [8:03] But age itself as we as we think about age is different it's not a number of years and this is why I like the Benjamin Button, type of concept is we all age differently and then obviously Benjamin buttons case he's getting younger, for real literally but we age differently and we and sometimes we have as we get older in life we start to gravitate towards, we get to choose more of what we can do because we've maybe earn that right and so we get to choose so if we are doing something that we really really like to do, then from an age perspective we're still young or youthful in those things but there is a measurement of age when we think about the the, exhaustion that can come from doing something that you really are kind of just tired of it you know and I think we all have to check ourselves you know at some point reflectively year by year in terms of, of the functional responsibilities that we have that are connected and tied to of course ownership sometimes that we want to be you know thinking about this is why, L stick as a side this is why he's not planning to be for me is so much fun one of the things I really enjoy about estate planning is getting to know the owner of a company or the owners and understanding the Dynamics of who they are as people. <br> <br> [9:25] And really this is why I say as an advisor we don't want to jump too quickly through the process and say let's let me just assume or push on you what I think is the best structure. <br> I want to guide the client through these questions so that we can create a structure. <br> Like in my first example of the owner that wanted to sell his ownership but still one of the function responsibilities of running the company, so that person is doing really well and they're really enjoying what they're doing because we've built the ESOP process and planning around around what they really wanted to. <br> Get out of it. <br> <br> [10:04] So keeping all that in mind again when we're thinking about age were thinking about its relative to the way you feel about what you're doing. <br> Now let me stop for a second and say it's really important and one thing that we'll get into a little bit is is this concept that your organization itself. <br> Your company that you need to have the ability to have self what I would call self-awareness. <br> And understand how you may be feeling like you're doing the greatest possible job, but I'm going to say objectively sometimes there are situations where the person who is in the functional role responsibilities role maybe as the president/ceo, or whatever that is and they're still an owner they have the power to hold on to that but they may want to objectively look at, in an evaluation process that says hey we're we're going to look at you know how people perceive Us in that role and and I'll get into my story a little bit because I think it's important, because sometimes I you know I think that if this is the truth that sometimes were blindsided, or we're blind to some things because we've been doing a job for so long and it's really helpful to get some some. <br> <br> [11:20] Independent objective advice around this topic of, the idea of am I aware of really my Effectiveness in this role I think that's part of it so so we're going to get in that in a second but I want to come back to the first part of this this conversation which is. <br> <br> [11:37] What is the cost of waiting. <br> Not doing anything and the first thing I wanted to get into is more of a personal nature which I've seen on my own front I've seen it also with other other clients. <br> <br> [11:50] The process of becoming like the owner or building a company from beginning to where you are now or, or the growth that's gone through sometimes we don't realize that the queen of the cost that we're giving up right now is that the time that we've lost the time that we might lose, with what might be really more important in our life and that could be. <br> The family element like our I'm just not available you know like I could be if I transitioned this whether it's ownership or management or both, I could be more available to my family or something else that is more important priority wise in my life and my value system, so one of the costs of not doing anything is that the longer you wait the more you sacrifice some of those things and you when you go back and you look at your life because you're not getting any younger. <br> There are certain stages where you can see in just being totally candid like either certain things I would say my life that I look back and say wow I really. <br> I really miss that because I work so much during the time where my kids were a certain age and. <br> Not to like get into the soil you know I I do would love to go back and change those things but I can only move forward so that kind of. <br> <br> [13:10] Dino philosophical point I don't want to get too caught up in it but I do want to I do want to say that there's a truth to that and that your kids are going to grow up. <br> Your grandkids are going to are going to grow up there's going to be this continual change in your family. <br> If you're so busy with everything in your work in your business that you might miss it one of the one of my favorite esops they put together was for, lady who had just had a grandchild and she wanted to be with the grand grandchild that was kind of one of their main motivating factors and it was just awesome to help her go through that ESOP process so that she could get back, to having that time. <br> <br> [13:52] So so there might as you reflect on this what I want to come back to is is is this transition plan is it time for transition planning whether it be, management transition and again we're going to layer in of course the why the ESOP is such a wonderful tool to do that, so this is the first point the second point I wanted to make in terms of the cost of waiting is you know from a business perspective you have to think about. <br> The people and this is again this can happen to all of us that the people that are around you and your company are waiting for their shot. <br> They're waiting for the opportunity to do what you did and when you bridge in and you recruit and you onboard really good talent, the last thing in the world anybody wants is for them to see that there's a there's kind of a stopping point for them they can't really. <br> Go any further because to be honest you might be holding them back and. <br> So so from a perspective of you not being aware of that or you being more, in tune with what is what's happening around you you would hate for you know the metaphor or the analogy of having a you know a superstar quarterback and your. <br> <br> [15:08] You know super old and you're still the quarterback and you're like hey I'm going to be the quarterback forever and then suddenly you the the team loses that star superstar quarterback to another team and, so it's kind of like analogy like that so so just keep this in mind and take it with a grain of salt because you know you can only know and your organization can only know these things, but I think it's important to be able to have an objective. <br> Workplace where people can speak their minds on these types of things that's a good cultural attribute to a company where everybody can kind of see themselves. <br> <br> [15:42] In my story you know I had so I had transitioned my role as the as our firms managing partner. <br> Um back into it started back at the end of 2019 I completed that transition but I really started transitioning a couple years before that but not not formally just informally. <br> But why I realize that that a couple things I didn't see I wasn't as self-aware and. <br> <br> [16:11] I was a very driven leader towards wanting to do what I wanted to do and I so at you know some point. <br> For me for through circumstances I started to realize through you know my family my wife that I'm just not. <br> Um I really shouldn't be doing this anymore kind of the bottom line was I just shouldn't be doing this job not that I was really messing it up. <br> For a couple reasons I wasn't available to my family like I should have been secondly I did see I had talent in the company that could do in my opinion better than what I was doing so I made the very difficult decision to go ahead and, and start the management transition side and that has led to the freedom to do the ESOP work and honestly, I can't imagine ever going back to that to that role because it's just something I had to do and then I think the another analogy I would say is that I felt like my life had been like the frog that was boiling in the pot. <br> And it was just kind of one slow degree after another over a 10-year period that I'm like oh wow I I didn't even realize that where I was and so. <br> <br> [17:26] I'm throwing that out and it's very I'm sharing my own personal story because I think it's important for you to think about your own story and where you are in that place, and how that drives you towards a decision towards transition, in the end the timing of that transition and I think that's what I'm saying when I'm measuring the age that I was as a. <br> As the CEO managing partner I was much older than I actually really am. <br> And so I think that was really helpful for me and I'm just thankful honestly to my family to the Lord to just getting through that whole transition and I think our organization I know our organization is better because of that. <br> <br> [18:07] So the the. <br> To keeping in mind the talent and then just thinking about kind of how that connects to you from a cost of waiting standpoint too is you may be wanting to do something more with your life, in terms of different things to career-wise that you couldn't do otherwise if you were still you know staying in those places transition from a transitional. <br> <br> [18:29] The third thing I'll say is cost of waiting this might not occur to people if they done zero ESOP planning but there's there's definitely elements to the valuation, that from a risk profile standpoint include the depth of your management, so this this one Concept in valuation or in business anyways is this idea of you know having a single point failure. <br> <br> [18:54] Having a single point failure with and maybe respect to 11 major customer right that's customer concentration that that could be a single-point failure but having a single point failure in the, in the organization would be this one person who's kind of in control of all of these variables that bring value to the business. <br> <br> [19:15] So the less depth we have within those that those pieces where we call management depth or recall other things. <br> <br> [19:25] We want to know that that's going to include that's going to end if you know affect the valuation because because it's going to increase the risk rating, it's going to affect the valuation because of the way that the cash flow is going to be concentrated based around that so so what we don't want when we do risk analysis as we don't want one one thing happening, a single-point failure where everything starts to Fall to Pieces so, you may not be not aware of your impact and effect on the valuation but that's going to be a significant element and really it's helpful to kind of get into the ESOP process a little bit here. <br> And even if you're not ready to pull the trigger having some type of valuation modeling done with somebody that you believe is really good at that it's kind of one of the first steps that we go through with it with a client. <br> <br> [20:17] Knowing that, if you do it correctly that model has the shelf for the long-term shelf life that can just be updated down the road so you it doesn't obligate you to move into the whole ESOP process or any transition process but it does give you some good, insight into things that you may not really be aware of because valuation itself I think in our industry is over simplified. <br> In like multiples like hey your multiples this and you know if you know forget about all these other little fine points that I'm making here. <br> When it comes evaluation Mall your multiples at so you kind of have this may be very naive thought process about what your valuation really is and the depth behind that the impact of transition into that so hopefully that makes sense. <br> <br> [21:07] The other concept I have in this is funny because I want to take it from a different standpoint, the I've got owners of selling shareholders are contemplating a transition maybe it's an ESOP and maybe it's something else but the concept here is if I if you really get into the. <br> Feasibility and conceptualizing an ESOP one thing that that some people struggle with is I'm going to sell my okay here's my company I own this company I'm going to sell my company's cash flow. <br> <br> [21:36] Which is what's happening in a transaction right I'm selling my company's cash flow in the ESOP case it's a buyer is the ESOP and they're buying that cash flow. <br> Now the point I'm making is that some selling shareholders will say well. <br> When I just hold on to the cash flow for a couple of years and I'll keep I'll keep that and I'll grow my value. <br> And so I'm I don't need to even do this right and so that concept can be a really. <br> Accurate I mean it's accurate so some in some cases of your like yeah that's true let's just get to the to the end of the of the conversation which is, the reason why somebody is going to sell their cash flow is because they're now ready to start to transition the principal under it all is risk and reward. <br> So I'm going to give up my cash flow in order to exchange and reduce my overall risk in the Enterprise. <br> Now one thing that's true about ESOP transactions. <br> <br> [22:34] For the most part is that you're still going to have a risk on an ongoing basis if you want, if you want if somebody is looking at a seller business and they're thinking I got to get out of this thing and I cannot I can't stick around for the ride I don't want that I want to completely get all my money off the table. <br> Then the ninnie sap transactions probably not a good thing for you and you can kind of skip the steps of going, conferences and listening to all these different podcasts or whatever you say it like it's not going to be because you're going to have a normal structure at ESOP transaction as you do sell your stock it could be a hundred percent of that, stock it could be a partial of that a percentage of that. <br> <br> [23:17] You're going to if we do Bank financing you're going to get some percentage of Bank financing say on a normal guideline around two to two-and-a-half times, of your historical cash flow the remaining portion of the whatever the actual real sale prices so if it's a five or a six times multiple. <br> That next three times multiple is going to be deferred, as subordinated seller financing and you're not going to get that principle until after the seller know is paid so keeping all that one mine I wanted to kind of like, point out to the to the point here what what's really happening is that you are selling your cash flow the companies buying you out by obligating themselves with debt. <br> And you're not going to walk away the day of closing with no with no risk so you are reducing your risk. <br> And that is why when I talk about this as part of the cost of waiting. <br> <br> [24:14] One thing that happens is you are, keep if you just don't do anything right you are keeping the cash flow but you're also keeping a hundred percent of the risk as the main Equity holder. <br> <br> [24:26] But so if there is a potential downturn and you haven't done anything to finance out debt the debt to pay out your stock, then you are on the hook for it all anyway so so Sarah there are this is very a very nuanced concept because some people are like look I'm not going to do that or I'm comfortable doing that in exchange for an ESOP transaction for, competence good compensation on the seller note plus the liquidity, plus I'll feel good about it if we do the warrant because in that gives me a potential upside of reward down the road for the work and the risk I am, so there's a lot of little parts and pieces to about to digest but I think it's just good to be thinking about those those main costs. <br> <br> [25:12] So next thing I want to do is shift I'll shift in a little bit on the idea behind a Age based decision making process of of when should I. <br> <br> [25:23] Go when should I start transitioning these these whether that's ownership endure my succession planning my my functional responsibilities. <br> <br> [25:33] And the thing is on this is we want to ask ourselves a question of. <br> <br> [25:40] You know doing the assuming the job of really assessing what how long I can do what I'm doing so so the first part about this is again this comes back to a think more of a personal. <br> Reflection of what you're doing in it, honestly it can be really helpful for you to reach out independently to people may be outside even in your company if you had a board of advisors if you had a board, if you had some some friends that you were he's just really trusted their opinion maybe at your CPA maybe it's your attorney maybe it's somebody that you really trust, they're there their opinion business-wise. <br> I think you also want to reflect on this question of how long can I keep doing what I'm doing and again back to the same thing I made earlier the point I made is my is my role in the company as effective as it could be. <br> And so I think that's an important. <br> Because you you do want to be constantly assessing that and that the other side of this question kind of comes back to some of the things we talked about a little bit earlier is. <br> <br> [26:47] How long can I keep doing what I'm doing and then wait to do what I really if I really want to do something different you know because. <br> We have to there's some things that we just have to do and if we own a business we just know we have to do these things so you know there's the half twos and then there's a I really want to do this and so what I want to kind of point out in this kind of part of the. <br> The discussion is there's there's an opportunity cost that is implied. <br> Derek how long can I keep doing this is really an important question from all the different aspects that I just talked about the very beginning with. <br> You know your family of course your other things you want to accomplish what's happening in the company, but there's a there's an emotional and there's a psychological and there's a deeper level of of. <br> <br> [27:43] Self-analysis maybe psychoanalysis maybe of where what what's happening in our life and we have to kind of measure measure those things. <br> And what I don't want people to do this is where I'm actually this is one of the real purposes behind. <br> This topic and it's really kind of a purpose behind the overall mission of the theesopguy. <br> Is I don't want people to get to a position where they're they're running through. <br> Just been a desperate and they may not say desperation but it's a hasty approach to their planning because they haven't done anything. <br> For all of these years and they put it off and they put it off and they put it off. <br> And then finally now that just feels like it's everything is kind of imploding and they have to do this they have to make a decision now so. <br> Everybody probably would agree with that the idea of good planning. <br> <br> [28:41] Produces really a really good result in the end whether that's I'm planning to build a house and I'm going through all the you know the decisions for, you know what the house is going to have in it you know whether it be my the way my kitchen is going to be or my bathroom and but if I'm running through those decisions that I'm making them too quickly and all the house the house gets built and I'm like oh God I'm living in this house and it's terrible, um I don't know why I decided on these kind of things so I it's this idea that take your time but get things like do something to start this that's kind of really where I wanted to go, so that you're not too hasty and I'm guessing that if you're listening to this podcast you are already on that track so and, good job they're encouraging you to keep going in asking the questions. <br> The other thing I will say is that sometimes I've seen this where the that the owner is is in this. <br> <br> [29:40] Analysis paralysis analysis thing I don't know if that's what people say it but if they're just so. <br> <br> [29:47] Not wanting to make a decision and there's a deeper reason because they don't really I think want to move into the next step of planning because they're afraid Maybe. <br> But the point is is that that one of the things that we land I'm just gonna be super specific about this because once you've conceptualized enough, got to do some business planning you've got to start with something and I advise people to start with what their valuation is in their valuation model. <br> And then secondly from there and I would advise structuring the transaction, around cash flows in debt structures in the tax benefits of an ESOP which is the feasibility phase I recommend that that gives you without having to commit to anything. <br> <br> [30:35] Good numbers and a good idea and understanding of things so so that's what I would advise people don't get stuck in a gyre of not be able to make a decision. <br> <br> [30:46] Um another thing I kind of ran into and do just researching this topic was a Harvard Business article that said Harvard Business review article said hunger is worth more than experience, and so thinking about what who is the right person for from a transitional standpoint, and don't take this the wrong way because I think experiences you know we can't I can't tell you how I think experience is just phenomenally important, and the scheme of being able to make business decisions for a company. <br> <br> [31:18] But one of the things I'm experiencing right now because I did that job for 10 years I've been at the firm for 23 years in June, I've got a lot of experience at all kinds of years after year after year of how we've gone through our business approach and things like that. <br> But I can tell you just to be honest I wasn't as hungry at the top. <br> As I should have been so this is this quote here is hunger is worth more than experience is finding somebody that is in your organization as part of your talent that is hungry. <br> Is a is I think such a winning formula where you can sit back, as of course the the sage experienced person to to help and drive, the the value of leveraging that experience with a leader that has a hunger and an ambition and a desire to grow the business so I think that's a great combination cos Mi if you're doing EOS, I would look at this as like the Visionary and the the integrator in that role between somebody that has really built the company and has a strategic vision and the integrator, I think that's a comp that's a powerful combination it kind of says the same thing so if you're in that place right now and you're considering your management transition plan. <br> <br> [32:45] Again you know keep in mind age is kind of is not as much of a measurement here as, as where the organization is and where you are in the organization it may be time to start making those changes that will be super helpful for you so so I think that's a really important thought process when we're thinking about, um what what age should I be to start transitioning my ownership in my succession planning. <br> Then the the other thing I wanted to point out is one thing that I think just recently I'm looking at I think I've looked at this probably for the last. <br> I think the last five years pretty solid is the technology changes they're just coming so fast and. <br> <br> [33:28] Just like everything on what I've said so far I'm just super honest about this I'm afraid of technology and way I we have to embrace. <br> Technology but now with the whole new a i thing it's making my head spin and so that I believe don't ignore technology. <br> As a business person of course. <br> But don't be but but don't be just afraid of it you got to embrace it and you got to go there and at some point I'm going to say that I'm just kind of tired of the way technology is. <br> Is blasting us I know it's all good and all that so don't, don't take me the wrong way I think there's so much value and good technology it's changing things but it's changing things so quickly to that you have to create an adaptable environment to technology or. <br> The risk is that we're going to be overwhelmed our businesses are not going to keep Pace with that and I would say. <br> <br> [34:24] This is a complete aside for the business person but thinking about your core values figure out how your core values. <br> Encapsulate the idea that the company will stay on The Cutting Edge of what technologies doing. <br> So that you're continually reminding your leadership group and yourself hey we need to be thinking about every year how we're innovating technology into our business model so but that's something to me that. <br> Honestly just makes me feel older older than I probably really am because I'm tired of I'm tired of the new. <br> This thing and the other thing and you know so that just gives me a I'm not good with I don't have to worry about it as much because I'm not now in charge but the person that is in charge they better be loving technology they better be, fully embracing and evaluating its impact on their company not just this year but in 5 years in 10 years. <br> <br> [35:18] All right so let's shift gears as we close out I want to close out with just the idea behind why is an ESOP such a good transition tool and whether it's ownership transition or succession transition or management transition. <br> And a couple things that stick out to me and I brought up a couple different concepts has the first is that we get to be able to be. <br> <br> [35:40] Super flexible with the structure and the planning. <br> To we can dial in first off and hey you want to keep this much of equity then you keep it will sell part of that to the ESOP will pick up the tax benefits of an ESOP will use that cash flow to help pay out the debt that we've created for that partial bye. <br> <br> [36:01] Meanwhile at the same time we're pulling the trigger on it eat an employee on culture that helps to take your own existing great culture up another notch, and really leverage the concept throughout your rank and file of hey you guys have a stake in this your ownership, your work matters and it's connecting to having being becoming a stakeholder and becoming a larger stakeholder as time goes on. <br> So flexibility and then the power of being an ESOP really does help with the ability of transitioning the ownership whether it's a percentage or you know a full on sale of everything that you've got. <br> On the other side of things what I love about esops is that it gets a starting this process where you might be not wanting to, once you've sold some of your stock at a conversation with a guy this week about this once you sold your stock, you're you're you're kind of like logically thinking because they're this might be you you might be like really very hesitant to start transitioning your key your real key roles in the company in, B but once you sold the stock you're like I don't really have any reason to not do it right so it kind of gives you an impetus but you don't have to do it overnight so it's, it's a nice slow methodical process to to execute a think a very solid management succession plan. <br> <br> [37:27] So and you can be at any Spectrum zero haven't done anything to we're 50% in or we're 100% in it doesn't even matter, so that's why I think that keeping those two ownership in management succession planning at the Forefront you know we can kind of shift, gears within the ESOP plan and then really aim towards what really fits the not just your goals and objectives but the but where the company really is once we've assessed that as well. <br> <br> [37:57] So so as we think about those aspects of doing an ESOP, there's just so much value that we can create in the process of accomplishing the transition side so that your when we kind of lay this back out to the when its built-in planned correctly, that the things that really kind of maybe have been stressful for you and thinking about, you know whether you're too you think you're too young to do it or you're too old you can kind of reassess the age where it's not as it's not as big of a deal hopefully that you know hopefully you see that and hear that on this episode. <br> But it's more about digging into the details of what that plan is going to be so that you're moving things forward and what that does for I believe for the organization is that it brings life to it. <br> And it helps bring life to to what you're wanting to do in not just for the business but you personally because I think that's that's where this becomes very holistic it's not just you know a transaction it's not. <br> <br> [39:04] Putting together like how do I get my people more involved and how do we have my management team be more excited about. <br> Also so holistic in a way I guess the word I would use is it's a very organic process because it's not it's not a one-size-fits-all hey just do this, you you there's so many choices in ways that you can plan to make it work successfully for your transition so. <br> So with all of that thank you guys for listening today and again, I've done a few should watch this movie or not but I thought it was an interesting way to illustrate ages and in the idea that we done none of us are obviously getting get younger like Benjamin Button so we do need to do something. <br> Have a wonderful day and we'll see you on our next step on this journey to an ESOP. </p>
About Journey to an ESOP & Beyond
ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Phillip Hayes explains the process of the ESOP transaction and addresses ESOPs from a business owner’s perspective. The "ESOP Guy" illuminates the simplicity of ESOPs as he debunks common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated.
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