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Summary of Podcast on EP17 - FREE Guy meets the ESOP Guy - Recession proofing your business - The Grid Wiki

EP17 - FREE Guy meets the ESOP Guy - Recession proofing your business

Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

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| June 4, 2022

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When should a business owner start succession planning?What advice do business owners who sold to third parties have to offer me?Will all of my employees become owners if I sell the business to them?

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In this episode we relate the recent movie Free Guy with dealing in reality of a recession and work through some ideas that might make sense for the possibility of an economic recession. For companies going through an ESOP - a sustainable ESOP company has to be prepared for good and bad economic times.

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Welcome everybody this is the ESOP guy it's a Monday hope everybody's having a great day today and we are going to do.  Podcast so this is a journey to an ESOP podcast designed to help individual people that are thinking they might want to use an ESOP an employee stock ownership plan,  for their business transition and that could be succession planning it could be exit planning all kinds of things so.  It's our third season and welcome if this is your first visit to our podcast on a say welcome please if you have an interest in this podcast.  Go to our website at journey to an ESOP.com you can get all the episodes if you want if you like it.  Then subscribe and you know if you really like it share it with a friend maybe that'll help them in their business as well so so thanks so much for joining today and wanted to start off with.  Something that's really kind of relevant to what's happening right now but I'm going to start off with this quick clip.    [1:14] Monday is my Rachel don't have a good day,  great day.    [1:33] Don't have a good day have a great day I don't know if you know that movie but this is good at this is where people are at a you only do old movies or whatever now this is a very new movie and this movie is called the free guy.  The episode that we're going to talk about today is called recession proofing your esops company.    [1:55] Free Guy meets The ESOP guy bam so.  This is going to really focus today on dealing with the reality of economic Cycles which.  To be honest with you I've wanted to talk about for a little bit and I think it's just appropriate after seeing so much going on in the marketplace.    [2:17] One of the one of the articles is just came out recently was entitled Main Street is convinced that a recession will hit the US economy,  this year a lot of people at the beginning year started thinking the recession you know we're going to probably look at something in 2023 but we are seeing a lot of indicators that,  will point to possibly,  recession so I wouldn't put myself out there as an absolute economic expert but I would say just reading some some information it's always better to be thinking,  that it's not if a recession happens it's really when,  if you've lived long enough this is this something that's true but we're facing things like fed the FED is trying to combat inflation and we all know inflation has been insane just look at the gas pumps and.    [3:09] How do they do that they do that by raising interest rates and they're doing that pretty regularly now as we look at each quarter and thinking through what they're doing,  that's definitely going to impact things and we're starting to see some of that too with the earnings reports,  for multiple company so so definitely 2022 as we think about it we want to be we want to be really knowledgeable of this and thinking about it if you are over 20 years old maybe,  20 or 30.  Raise your hand if you're over 40 and 50 raise your hand Now 60 and 70 raise your hands so.    [3:50] First off if you're driving be very careful put both hands back on the wheel but if you've lived long enough.  There's a high probability that there that you have remembered or have been through or that you have experienced an economic cycle what I mean by that is is.  Certainly walking through and Dill and dealing with in your business,  the a downturn where we are seeing a Slowdown in revenue or seeing the.  Companies and customers you know not committing directly to certain things now we know that we had a serious impact to some Industries during covid-19.  That was absolute absolutely a correction for their industry but on a wide economic scale we did not,  see anything and really now as we start thinking about it that's really what I'm referring to is on a wide-open scale from an economic standpoint what happens is we start looking at that so.    [4:50] What would I want to do today is talk about and be in get you in the mindset of thinking what do I need to do now.  For my company if I'm going through an ESOP transaction may be this year or next year the key aspect of Esau planning and I'm going to say absolutely should be.    [5:10] Very relative area.  Prevalent in your esops planning is sustainability and sustainability just means that the company will be sustaining itself through the whole process now.    [5:22] What we're doing you know in the process of doing an ESOP transaction is we're putting a bunch of debt on the company we're adding a cash-flow obligation.  To the company's cash there too yeah the to the company's cash flow so the company is going to have to make sure that it can sustain that and so so that's going to be that's part of the what we're the reason why I'm kind of sewing.  It is stressing this today and so excited about it and some ways to make sure I'm not afraid of recessions and I hope you're not either this is just part of the normal economy but we need to be before we need to have a plan before we get there now my my.  Theory or thesis here is that when Economic Times Are Good companies don't do not.  Always.  Think about what's going to happen and be prepared for a recession and and basically sometimes we just get complacent and so what I'm going to try to do today is just as have us all think about that so.    [6:23] And then take some practical steps towards you know things that you might want to change things you might want to do and meet with your leadership group on maybe a mid-year type of,  review and thinking about third and fourth quarter now before we get there.    [6:39] Again so if you like the podcast please share it with a friend if you want to subscribe to be great and check out our website at journey to an ESOP.com.  So the movie itself is awesome so free guy this whole thing was free Guy meets The ESOP guy and I'm going to tell you I was like honey I don't know if I want to watch this silly movie it's like about this video game.  And it's also about.    [7:04] The technology of artificial intelligence and and it actually was a really funny movie and I kind of actually enjoyed it more way more than I thought I would,  I thought it was very creative I thought it was like this guy's hilarious Ryan Reynolds is the is the free guy.  And I also I'm almost going to get one of those blue shirts that he's got,  so the plot of the movie is that he's got he doesn't know that he's artificial intelligence and he's experiencing things he's doing the same thing every single day like you would in a video game,  and people kind of login from the internet and they play this video game and then he basically starts to have Consciousness which is just the whole weird idea.  And learn he basically learns things and,  starts to become the hero and the move in the video game and start saving everybody when everybody logs in play the video game they're all kind of the bad guys and so he starts saving people and getting a bunch of credits and points and and so he can,  he's really just excited to try to win this when this girl's heart and the movie and so this is kind of his Pathway to do that,  and so anyway I want that was kind of like the whole.    [8:21] Crying I watch I won't ruin the movie for you but why do they choose free guy is because it's the reality of what we perceive around us that can be so,  um sometimes we can lose touch with and so there's this overall reality to the movie that.    [8:40] It's like he it's like he doesn't really perceive reality at all until people come in and say hey this is what's really happening and then he's kind of shocked with the whole thing,  and then he realizes it so anyway highly recommend it I again I just thought wow what an interesting concept,  and so watch that movie so so we're going to talk about the reality of a recession and what that might look like and so just this is the ESOP guy now hopefully coming in to wake everybody up to think hey,  if this does happen if we see a correction what do we do first what do we do next and what's our plan I'm going to basically go over,  things that I think are just important for every every company to be thinking about.    [9:22] I get like every industry is different so all these things are just generally there to think about and hopefully help you to be you know just very Universal the first place I'm going to stop and I'm going to say to everybody.  As I've lived through multiple recessions,  and downturns in my in my business career and as an owner of a business and these are things that I would do specifically so it's not just,  me trying to tell you what I think I know I've done this before and I've helped clients do this but as well so the very first stop we're going to.  Is the most to me the most one of the most important places to evaluate the strength of your company and that is your balance sheet.    [10:08] The balance sheet shows the company's Financial condition.  Representing as a point in time what is what are the current assets the long-term assets what are the current liabilities long-term liabilities what is the net worth the net Equity of the company.  And the more Equity the company has the more assets that exceed liabilities in general the idea is that that's going to be a stronger,  balance she so one of the things that I recall from 08-09 if you remember that recession is the companies,  that we represented as a CPA firm the companies that really were very,  you know everybody went through a very difficult time but the ones that survived the best were the ones that had the greatest balance sheets going into,  they have the strongest balance sheets and had the staying power to be able to weather a storm of losses and so.    [11:09] What happens in a company when the financials the income statement starts showing hey we're losing money this month we're losing money this quarter we're we're losing money for the whole year.  That money that net income goes to a net loss has to be funded by the balance sheet.  Now can be funded by liabilities you can fund cash from debt but that's a very short-term proposition if the company is not going to make,  income for period of time and hit Break Even or losses then where does where does that get funded it gets funded from the balance sheet.  And the strength of the balance sheet is going to really make a contribution to.    [11:55] What the company is going to be able to do to to work through that so one of the things that we're going to look at a ridge you know immediately now I'll say that.  Some of these things we're doing in esops planning anyways when we're evaluating an ESOP a company going through Isa we're going to do a pro forma balance sheet in the feasibility model in order for us to determine.  What would be the impact of the debt that we're going to put on the company,  and how does that impact the balance sheet from that point of view so we know that when we do an ESOP transaction we're going to be.    [12:34] Messing with the balance sheet in a real negative way and so that's really important for planning anyway so because you really wanting to make sure that.  Everybody knows you know if you have a third party obviously Banker the third party Bonding Company anybody that's relying on that balance sheet to say these are we're making credit decisions on the company's behalf they need to know that.    [12:59] And so so we're going to want to do a pro forma balance sheet on an ESOP transaction so in addition to that.    [13:08] In addition to that we're going to want to then measure the strength of the balance sheet so one of the ways you can do that is to look at the ratios that your balance sheet has so the ratios that I'm thinking our liquidity ratio so and.  Working capital ratio so what is your current assets to current liabilities so what's the strength of the company there what are your quick ratio so the current quick assets that can convert over.  So so those the stronger those are in relationship to your industry the better right and so,  this is something that we do for the fat the valuation anyway so on a valuation we're normally going to do is,  is Benchmark the strength of those ratios against your industry so it's a good time to make that into a conversation to say hey you're actually either weaker or stronger if you're weak or tell us a little bit more about it so when they can the current ratio,  maybe your receivables are just not being collected as timely as they could,  you know maybe the payables aren't being paid as soon as they should be so we're going to it'll kind of give us a flag to talk about it anyways.  When we're walking into a potential recession we're going to want to spend a lot more time there and so what happens to one of the things I'm measuring in the balance sheet.    [14:29] For my specific company.  Or a net another company that's working through this is what are the Trends on the account receivable aging so as well so if my receivable aging's are starting to slow down on average.  I'm going to be looking at that and say hey what's going on because this is going to be a good flag for us to stop and say alright let's talk to our customers about what's happening why are we not getting paid we were getting paid in X number of days,  what are some things we can do to start collecting that.  The worst thing we can do is ignore the receivable aging and let things kind of just keep getting thicker and thicker so so analyzing the balance sheet and look at the ratios for again current ratio and quick ratio are going to be really helpful,  looking at the day's receivable ratio and how quickly those are turning is going to be helpful,  I always like to look at the tables ratios as well and the inventory ratios to see how quick is my inventory turning if that's applicable.    [15:31] Another ratio that might be helpful for you is to look at the,  interest-bearing debt / Equity or debt to equity ratio so how much debt do you have to equity is going to be a helpful and especially as we're going to load on more debt and so pre esops post esops,  because the company can really manage.    [15:53] You know company has the ability to manage debt especially as an ESOP company because we're tax-free entity but one of the things about.  Esops that's true is that the benefit of the cash flow now helps us to manage the debt.    [16:08] From IRS only happens if we're actually making money.  So that kind of Fades away if we don't so we want to know how much debt you know debt to work that we have and again one of the things I always try to look at is as much as we can,  is trends for the last several years so for seeing some Trends the numbers don't lie so those are helpful things to do as well.    [16:33] So going into looking at specifically the.  The ratios in the balance sheet one of the things you can do is start to tart start to Target.  Some goals some financial goals so if you are seeing your receivables say for instance,  um in a say a sixty five to seventy five day window how do I get that down to you know something like a 40 or 30 even if you're looking at potentially,  some discounts how do I improve the current ratio what are some things that I can do to build up that part of the balance sheet.  So setting goals when you when you go through the percentages and you go through the ratios setting some goals on the balance sheet are pretty helpful to get everybody going on in the right place and this is just definitely,  something you want to be thinking about as you go go forward in possibly hitting recession and what that's going to look like.    [17:31] One of the things that some companies do is they.  Accumulate more cash on the balance sheet and so that certainly helps with the current ratio going into an ESOP transaction with there's going to be a required working capital anyways so it's not going to be.    [17:51] It's a lot of time sometimes that gets distributed out beforehand or it gets distributed out at the time or we issue instead of Distributing all out we issue a triple a note,  for the tax basis of what the what the owners have kept in the balance sheet as well.  So what I would say about this is going as an ESOP company in it going into it you just you really,  wanting to keep as much in the balance sheet as you possibly can going into uncertain times and so as long as the seller is treated fairly by may be an additional AAA now,  it's better if the company is better off from a sustainability standpoint of going in with more cash than less cash and so.  That doesn't mean the owner has to lose their cash it just means it might get it out a little bit slower so we know that.  Going into a recession I mean cash cash is king So that's going to be a big part of it the other thing about,  the banking side of it right now is one of the things I always think about is what what are some possibilities that I can do now that my balance sheets are good my financials are good with the bank.  Um if you vet if you analyze a balance sheet sometimes you'll see that the company is maybe more debt than they need.    [19:18] Got it got maybe put on the balance sheet in different ways so this might be a good time to start reorganizing the debt now.  To either getting longer-term a ations for certain types of notes might be helpful.  Um you could re amortize some of the debt on the the equipment different things like that so that you can start now before it here's the thing with bank bankers.  Don't ask for loans this is just a rule of thumb that I that I believe don't ask for loans when you absolutely need it,  because to be honest with her be honest with you the banks are not going to necessarily always be there right when your balance sheets and your cash flow starts to Crunch,  and you have some debt obligations and you come into the bank and say we need to restructure all this but I'm kind of not sure exactly how the recession is hitting us,  and your interim statements your quarterly statements or are not as good as they were not a good time to be asking so ask when you don't need it.  And be pretty conservative so one thing you can do is look at your term debt and maybe re amortize all of it and.    [20:27] Before you get going and then get a get a lower payment and then you can either pre-pay some of that later,  or the other thing to look at is maybe it's a good time to go ahead and pay off some.  Because debt can be really ugly during a recession when you're locked in on certain amounts of money that have to go out,  this is particularly complicated when the company either owns the real estate.  Um which I don't advise or they're spending through the company a large cash amount for the owner to pay down the real estate.  And so let's just say that that's happening then I would say it might be good if you think you're up for a potential correction to restructure that debt,  now interest rates are coming up.  So that's going to be the negative side if you re structured a mortgage right now it may not be worth it so those are things that you just have to work through so that that's all the balance sheet stuff there's a lot more probably to think about but I want to,  spend some time on some other areas of financial planning are business financial planning.    [21:40] So balance sheets to me the first place I know it maybe people might just say the Cashflow might be the the first place but either way they're both extremely important right so let's talk about cash flow for a second and so.  Esops planning 101 is I'm going to really delve into my cash flow a lot the whole to me the whole lynchpin of an ESOP plan.  When you think about it from beginning to end is what is the company's cash flow.  And so we think about it from a valuation perspective the cash flow that the company generates is what is really being valued in the discounted cash flow method.    [22:20] And the more accurate and the more reliable and the more predictable that cash flow is the better.  Structure your going to put on your esops transaction because it's not just the value of the business it's really the ability of the business to pay off the acquisition debt.    [22:37] So cash flow is going to be really important now in a recessionary time period.  It's all about managing your cash flow as well so so.  Some things that we have to think about when we think about your cash flow is where where is it going and in a time where where,  people are higher in profitability and you know one of the things I saw rocks couple years which is crazy with cash flows is not many many many companies got the PPP financing.  And that pppp financing gave everybody a real big shot in the arm.    [23:14] And obviously that boosted cash flow it was forgiven so not only the debt was forgiven but also there were no taxes on it so it was just this one time,  thing in our business history in the United States that business owners really got to me a huge benefit.  And so that artificially inflates a lot of the cash flow trends that you might look at and really what you want is to start looking at what normalized cash flow looks like so so definitely in an ESOP plan we're adding back.  PPP financing because it's really a non-recurring and also the ER TC credit that's being issued at this point maybe this year or last year that if you've gotten that so.    [23:59] We want to we want to think about our cash flow forecast.  In times of uncertainty to so what would what would be in your model your.  You know worst case scenario and so.  This is again this is so overlapping to how we you do esops planning anyways but what I'm suggesting is you go a little bit deeper.  Think through things up from a recession standpoint what could happen,  now this will really Identify some of the major risk areas of companies we start thinking about which should have gotten identified anyways which would be one would be.  Hey we have a very large percentage of our Revenue that's generating our cash flow that is.    [24:48] Dedicate or is sourced primarily from maybe one major customer okay so that's concentration risk,  and we saw it in a lot of companies and covid-19 Cove it hit so we need to identify what that looks like in play that play the game is if hey if that company went and had economic difficulties,  what would happen to our business if we lost x amount of that revenue and so.    [25:15] You know it has to be a cash flow forecast for a recession proofing your business has to be realistic has to be thinking about all the potential impacts of local National and international economies depending on how your business,  is structured and where those customers are.  So we want to look at the source of the cash flow and really beat that up a little bit to see what would possibly affect you and your business from that perspective,  the other side of it is we want to look at the outflows of cash flow so what are things that in your cash flow model.    [25:49] That you you know when you look at a forecast what we're doing is usually we're going to take the cost of goods sold.  And we're going to take the historical gross profit.  And we're going to kind of try to look at that as a normal on an average may be looking at that as a normal cash flow forecast GP margin,  and so we're going to go back into a cost of goods sold so but we need to ask the question about the outflows there what are what's changing within that so we can make sure we,  an arrest on a recession standpoint we've identified potential issues with increasing costs.  That are direct cost now one of the costs that we're seeing across the board is direct labor and materials so you know perfect storm right now if we get into a position where,  we can't reduce those prices and we start losing Revenue that's going to hit us right on the top of the income statement and then we now we got to go through the G & A expenses and start thinking about those now that's.  One of my favorite areas for recession planning because I think that first off it's super fun to find cost savings,  but what you should be doing and your cash flow plan for recession as you should be identifying a cost reduction strategy.  Which basically itemizes each of the areas of your GNA expenses and ask the same question over and over again can we do this for less money.    [27:17] And what would it what would happen if we do and so obviously starting with the big guy big expenses,  it's going to be important payroll stuff because it is really hard to get people but there might be,  as you start thinking about a recession there may be some payroll that you've identified you haven't pulled the trigger on,  but the you've identified that as not the really essential and I don't want to be like the cold blood blood business guy but the reality is that companies that don't.  Enter into a layoff situation when they're going through a downturn where they can.  Really do affect everybody in the company and the company's ability to sustain itself now this is especially true as an ESOP company when the company has to try to meet the debt obligations that it has.    [28:08] So insurance would be the next one I would say is really a big item health insurance.  Property insurance if it's got to pay for that your dno policies just really looking at every single insurance policy this is a wonderful summer project for your controller.  And or CFO in just going through and having them identify all of those all of those items what is your what your current marketing,  now most people that go into recession or like a do not mess with your marketing budget so my thing is is everything's on the table.  I would question invalidate your marketing strategy and not necessarily just cut the marketing budget but I would validate a this works I would be measuring,  on a marketing strategy what is working what's not what's your win-loss ratio and your proposals that are generated from trade shows I definitely want to dig into that a little bit deeper just to make sure,  that if you are spending the money in those areas.    [29:15] Is it really working I have a I have a client who had been affected by covid because they couldn't do trade shows,  and because of that they actually saved it an enormous amount of money each year and so since then they've been able to kind of keep a very low amount of trade show involvement the same time their businesses still grown,  and so measure what you expect in those things and make sure that those are those are warranted.  Software is a huge expense and I wish there were something I could do in our industry because there's only like two major software providers it's like they have the.    [29:55] Olga Polly are them Monopoly and you know and your and your kind of out there.  You know under you know you just what are you going to do they just keep raising their prices and you keep paying,  so but if you can evaluate what you are pen spinning on software what one of the things we did when we did this is we looked at how many licenses we had and we realize that we need to stay on top of that because people come and go,  sometimes we can use a.  A software subscription and really be more efficient with it and still be obviously ethical about what you're doing with software,  so so those are some areas that I think are really going to be helpful as you start thinking about your DNA expenses and getting into a cost reduction strategy now and again,  one of the things that I always think about what I'm going through this is if I'm in 2022 and things are good.    [30:49] And things get kind of bad later what would I have done now that I couldn't they can't do in the future so think about yourself in the future looking back and now and and and I say that not to guilt you but I say that to make these things important,  I know that one of the one of the obstacles we have right now to do what I'm talking about is we're so busy and we need to be.  Obviously thinking about how we're balancing our time if we get into a point where we're not super busy than 0 maybe the recession is hitting us already so I'm just encouraging you to try to really think about this.  As a major issue that you need to think about before it gets before it gets there so.    [31:35] One of the things in real in relationship to coming back to financing and different things like that is no what you can do from a financing standpoint there are companies,  that again can do different types of Lending,  um better to know who they are one of the things about the financing side if I come back to it is very helpful have a couple different banks.  My banker friends will kind of get mad at me for a second but have a have a second error in a tertiary banking,  so that you can if the first one is not going exactly they go through because banks will do this they'll they'll decide hey we're not really wanting to lend to your type of Industry anymore it's nothing against you it's just it's nothing personal it's just business,  and you're like great well I put all my eggs in one basket and it's nothing against you but now I've got to make a decision here so.    [32:29] Definitely be thinking about the possibilities of what that looks like in a multiple banking relationship usually the main bank is going to have your depository,  I get it but if there's other things you can do business credit cards is one area how does that how does that function so using some other services that banks have is helpful,  some companies when they go into recession have to go to a factoring company.  And again I think is better it's better if that might be you.  To know who they might be and what the deal terms might be so you can kind of budget if we got really if it got really difficult this is how we'd go about doing that so that's just a couple other points on the financing side.    [33:17] Thinking about your possible recession strategy one of the things I spend a lot of time on an ESOP planning is digging into the revenue streams in.  When at what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to determine the sources of revenue and again I got to that,  discussion on how many customers I have are who you know what's the concentration of customers but but in this I'm trying to look at the source of Revenue to determine what is the quality of the different types of Revenue that I have,  and so as companies have grown over the last say 10 to 12 years where we've been the comfort that the economy is expanding and there's been a lot of opportunity for growth.  Sometimes they don't take a good look at those revenue streams so my advice on the recession proofing is categorized your Revenue as a b c and d.  In relationship to the profitability of that Revenue so that you can know first off what is the most valuable customers that you have,  and the valuable customers to me.  Um are not just the highest profitable customers but generally they're going to be the highest profitable customers are going to be your best customers anyways so understand who your customers are,  the other part of this is to understand and continue to diversify your Revenue strategy and.    [34:37] We can get overwhelmed by diversity and diversifying strategies I mean like what I mean by that is you can get to a point where you start to dilute your core competency of what you're what you're truly doing so I don't advise that,  but within your core competency what are some other things you can do to diversify the amount of Revenue,  that could be we are you know expanding a marketing campaign to you know to get in front of some companies that we've never done business with but we be a perfect Prospect or perfect customer for us,  that could be for the first time ever we're going to be a lot more proactive we're going,  you know do some of the opposite we're going to take on more payroll we're going to hire a business development team that does called colleagues cold calls and outbound call so so I would I'm much more of a proponent of,  getting out and doing the marketing doing the hard stuff now to diversify that and,  so kind of backing into this a little bit what I have seen in my history is companies do get complacent when they have a pretty good solid Revenue base and.  I think it's really okay for a while but if things start to turn on you.    [35:47] It need to have either all this stuff going or you need to have a good plan to say you know what we may we may end up,  shrinking a little bit this year but we're going to end up going after a very aggressive marketing program and then diversify our Revenue so I think that's really important as you start thinking about what you might do.    [36:06] So kind of wrapping that up you know I think about the.  Again the free guy and the reality so that the key is is nobody really knows as an economist people are like they're able to say things.  That they don't really know what's going to happen and so your investment advisors might be telling you things your friends might be telling you things my thing is is just be prepared,  for whatever happens and anything we can rebound that can always happen but one of the things I'm thinking about overall as I conclude this.  Is that we just haven't had any major Corrections for for say 12 years and and we know if we lived long enough that.  The economy's always go through cycles and it's just because you know things get out of whack and now inflation is getting us out of whack the way that the interest rates are coming back you know increasing so quickly is out of whack.  The international issues are out of whack and we still have released a I've related issues with covid you know and so so all of that is my.  Opinion about what I think is going to happen so be prepared for that.    [37:16] So if you think about the next steps definitely delegate out what you might want to do track it measure it,  and then go from there but if you're in the middle of an ESOP deal or are you thinking about an ESOP deal still doesn't mean you should you should hold off on it,  it just is a matter of what is it the right timing for you depending on where you are in this potential recession so I hope that was helpful to you I hope that you as you start thinking about your businesses can make sure that you are,  at least considering that as part of your list of items that you're going through on leadership meetings.  So with all that everyone Keep On Keepin On will see you on this next step on this journey to an ESOP.

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About Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Phillip Hayes explains the process of the ESOP transaction and addresses ESOPs from a business owner’s perspective. The "ESOP Guy" illuminates the simplicity of ESOPs as he debunks common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated.

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