EP24 - King Kong - Growth versus Scalability for companies planning an ESOP

I don't know if it's your Friday, but it is my Friday. So if it's your Friday, happy Friday. We are on a journey to an ESOP, and I am the ESOP guy. Thank you so much for listening today. Recently, my family and I moved out to the beach, which has been really an awesome adventure. And one of the things I noticed, we, um, so we actually have a condo on the beach and we can sit out there and and kind of just watch the waves and whatever. Um, one thing I've noticed though, it's kind of interesting is there's all these people on the beach. And they have these um one wheelers, I don't know if you guys know what a one wheeler is, it's, it's a, it's a like a skateboard, but in the center is this big wheel. And if you lean forward, it's motorized. So if you lean forward, it moves forward, if you lean backwards, it moves backwards. And so these people are like on these motorized one wheelers and they're just kind of cruising down the beach and it looks like just awesome fun. And it was one of the things I was thinking about like how once people start to notice these kind of things, other people are like, yeah, I want one of those, I want one of those. Um, and I want to say that ESOPs are no different. EOs are the same kind of, you know, animals, like, once people see how cool the ESOP is, um, it's like they just, they just want to know more about it. And I, and I really do hope, and this is the intention of the podcast is that, The more people understanding how cool an ESOP is, the more activity there will be in, in this industry because there really are a great option for companies. So we've done this podcast for now we're in season two. we've done it to really produce something that people can help, cannot help people determine whether or not, you know, ESOP would be a good vehicle for them to work through their business transition or even You know, a stepping stone towards a, you know, growth strategy with a potentially an exit. There's a, there's just a lot of things you can do with, with an ESOP. So appreciate you listening and being with us today. If you're new to the podcast, I wanted to invite you to check out our website at journey to an ESOP.com. And there's a whole slew of episodes and if you, if you um have an interest in there, you topically, you can kind of just go through and say, hey, I want, I want to learn more about warrants or I want to learn more about trustees, you can find all kinds of information. So you, some people go in and they just start listening from the beginning to where we are now. So that's, that's cool as well. So I wanted to start off with this to kick off this episode. to Is that a market? Is that a monkey? It's a great scene. Um, this is from King Kong, 2017 version of King Kong, I might say. And um I'm gonna tell you right now, this is one of my, my favorites. And so, so the King Kong movie inspires me to talk today about uh growth, and it's a very important topic. I want to go into the concept a little deeper than than I have previously. And we talk about You know, all kinds of things when we talk about um growth, but I want to get into growth and this idea of scalability and the difference between the two. So the title of this podcast today is King Kong Growth versus scalability. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast and if you think it might be helpful for somebody that you know, and you're friends with them, please share it and um hopefully, you know, we can help more people understand how cool an ESOP really is. So as we start this topic off, I wanted to say first off, um from 1933 to 2021. There have been 12 King Kong films produced, 10 of those have been American productions and 2 have been Japanese productions. So, as I said, I kind of, I kind of get excited to uh talk about some, some of these movies because they're just fun. Um, fun entertainment and all that. But the best King Kong movie that I've ever seen, it, it's not the 2005 Jack Black movie. And if you saw that one, I'm not saying it's horrible, but it's weird too, because it's, it's, I don't know, the storyline and everything kind of gets all twisted up a little bit. Um, I like much better the 2017 King Kong Skull Island, where really the, the Vietnam soldiers go in with Samuel Jackson and they're trying to blow up King Kong and it's really cool. Now, I'm contrary to the Rotten Tomato scores because the Rotten Tomato scores had the 2005 version higher than what I'm saying, and then that that one of the highest in the Rotten Tomatoes is the 1933. This is the number one rated Rotten Tomatoes, King Kong. Um, which is the old one, the very, very original one. So maybe because that's just because it all started with that. I don't know. I would, I would really have to go back and watch it just to compare. But anyway, the question is, how did King Kong grow so large? Really, when you, when you watch the movie, you're like, what in the heck? The, um, you know, it's just kind of fun, you know, fantasy world stuff, but You know, there's Skull Island and there's all kinds of big gigantic things on Skull Island, but deeper than that, the real question is, and this is as we go into the, the reality side of things today, is how is your business going to grow? Now, let's go back to the forecast work that we have to do in ESOP planning. And when I say about forecast work, I'm talking about. Um, what is your company going to do over the next 5 years from an income statement standpoint for just keeping our heads around that a little bit? What, what, what's the revenue going to be like over the next 5 years? What is the profitability of that eBay going to be like from a cash flow standpoint? That's a very important question if you didn't know that, if you're going down the road towards an ESOP. And the reason that's an important question is because it really does connect the dots on all of the planning. And the first thing is, is that the forecast itself is going to be used to develop the valuation. So the discounted cash flow method is built around the, the company's forecast. The second is that all the other analysis when we start thinking about tax and cash flow, how people are going to get paid back, what's the bank going to finance and how is there enough cash to do this when we stress test that with the tax benefits, um, all that's going to happen because we have a very good forecast. So if you go back in time a little bit on our podcast, if you go to season or season 1 episode 5. Very, very early on in my podcasting days, I did one called Nottradamus, which I took the idea of, you know, what does it take to do a forecast. It was really more about how do you build a forecast. Um and we fast forward to today and really as we as we start thinking about this podcast, it's not as much about the forecast, it's really about the idea like, so I've had clients where You know, the process that I go through is like submit a forecast as we start phase one of this, of this ESOP planning, submit a forecast so we can see what you, what we think you're going to do over the next 5 years. Now, you would imagine that we're going to get all kinds of forecasts. Some of them are going to be, you know, these crazy hockey sticks, like we're going to grow 20 to 40% every single year for the next 5 years. Um, And when you get that, you're like, OK, let's talk about how, how that's going to happen because over the last 5 years, you haven't grown, you know, maybe 1% or 5% a year or maybe even less than that. So they have that kind of example. Then you have the other example of a client that's just so conservative, and it's not a hockey stick, it's, it's like a, it's like everything's going down and it's doom and gloom. We're going to actually lose revenue over the next 3 to 5 years and you know, and so, What is, what has to happen here is we have to, um, first off, just from a forecasting standpoint, we got to do something that's reasonable. We got to do something that ties itself to really what's happening in the business. Um, I like to start off with the baseline year of the last fiscal year, look at the history, and then launch forward with what your customer relationships look like and, and, um, how does that work if you've got to put more money into the company, if you, if you're investing in new strategy, all those things, there's, there's so many things to talk about with that. We're not gonna, we're not going to go down that road. But ultimately, when you get down to it, if you underrepresent your forecast, Which means I've understated things, then you're really basically saying to the trustee, the company is worth less than it was, maybe historically, if it's a if it's a downward trend. So, Now, I know that growth is, is difficult and, and especially some companies in the business models, it's not as easy to say we know exactly what we're going to get in revenue over the next 5 years, because it kind of goes, you go from one year to the next. Um, but you have to know that there's. A company with people working day in and day out to work towards some kind of goal. And so there needs to be some kind of balance there. So I want to focus ourselves on, on the client who says, hey, it's downward, let's talk about how we can represent that in growth. And when we get into this topic, I think it's, it's very, very important because it really does support the foundation of ESOP planning and And I want to make sure that your mindset's right when you go through that process of, of saying, OK, this is what it's, what, what it should look like. Whether you're going to do an ESOP or not, I'm gonna say, if you don't have a 5 year 5 year forecast. Then your business needs one. You need one because you need to let people know on a year annual basis and over a period of time where the company is going. So it really is an important part of this whole thing. I really love this part of the of doing the ESOP planning. It's, it's really a lot of fun because You get to talk about things that are really interesting and, you know, we work, um, I'm a partner in a CPA firm and a lot of the CPA world, we're just kind of, you know, doing stuff for historical purposes. So this is fun because you can really start thinking about the future and helping a client understand like, what can, what could possibly happen to really change things. So want to start talking a little bit about the idea between growth and scaling and what the difference. I'm borrowing an article written by Ferris Sherrod. And it's called growth versus scaling. What's the difference and why does it matter? And as he starts off his article, the premise here is that a business that's not growing is really in a, in kind of big trouble. And the reason they're in big trouble is because Um, the company itself eventually will lose clients, you know, clients go out of business. So you, you do have this potential. Now, he takes it to, you know, the perceived situation at the publicly traded marketplace where you have large companies and they, they have to grow on a quarterly basis. And if they don't, there's going to be something going on. Hopefully, you know, if you start thinking about your own portfolio, um, if they're not growing on a quarterly basis, and there's some issues going on with their stock price. Um, but the idea of growth is just, it's fundamental to being in business. And whether you're thinking about growth and revenue, or you're thinking about growth in other aspects of your business, um, we tend to think about revenue. I want to think, I want to also tend to think about growth and profitability. And all of those things, maybe it's not even just growth in the financial statements, it's growth in the strength and the infrastructure of your company so that you're, you're, um, more sustainable and you have a stronger balance sheet. And so there's a lot of ways to think about growth. I don't want to get so, so sucked into just thinking about revenue, but a lot of times as we start thinking about growth, we, we kind of get into the idea of, oh, it's, it's purely revenue. So, this, this example though, we'll think more about revenue. So kind of, kind of as we go through that, just keep in mind that I want to have a bigger picture, just thinking through it. So one of the, one of the distinctions between growth and scaling is that growth really does say that in linear terms, what happens is a company adds new resources, new capital, new people, new technology, and then it's revenues really go from there to start to increase, right, based on that. So what we were saying is, is that if I put more money in my company, invest in Some R&D for instance, I should have some hopefully return on that investment and hopefully that's going to translate to some growth in revenue and profitability. Scaling though, is when the revenue in a business increases without a substantial increase in resources. So I think this is really, really a critical thing to think about when you're starting to do business planning or you're starting to think through your own forecast because The business ideas and innovative ideas are You know, all, you know, all businesses that are successful, right? They have to have some innovation. So when you start thinking about the possibilities in your business to scale, um, you can start thinking like that would because, you know, you think about revenue increases without substantial increases in resources. What we're really saying is, you don't have a substantial increase in cost. Therefore, I can grow my revenue and then my profitability is going to grow um just as fast. And so, We're, when you're thinking about these types of things, and again, come back to the forecast, um, it's really important I think, uh, I would like a forecast that is companyed with some type of business plan that helps me to understand how did that forecast get created, right? I think that's a really important step in going through this. So, so as we think through growing your business, um, wanted, I want to go through very quickly, and this is one of the things I was thinking about when we, when I wrote this podcast was, I want to go through something people are driving their car or something, they're just listening. I'm gonna go through this very, very fast, and it's just ideas that you might want to incorporate in a growth strategy. Um, first thing is a CRM situation. Does your business have a customer relationship management system, um, a contact management system? Why would you want one? Because you really need the leverage, the power of knowing who your customers are, who your prospects are. Number 2, Um, have you leveraged any marketing automation? Nowadays with email blasts and things like that, you can, you can email instead of sitting there plowing out emails from a marketing standpoint to, you know, take, takes you all day, you can send an email to 2000 people in, you know, less than 10 minutes. Um, what about other automated processes in your business? Number 3, have you automated other things? Now automation is taking over. Um, in a lot of ways, it's, it's got to be embraced. I know for us, we're leaning as a business into automation, but you got to start somewhere. So when you start thinking about the future, almost every part of your business can have some type of automation. Um, and so be thinking about that and leveraging automation as well, um, focusing on customer experience and what, what they're like. I know some companies have customer roundtables, that's very helpful to really understand what the customer experience is like. Um, 5th, higher top talent, don't mess around, find the best people you can. Um, one of the things we we kind of preach on this whole thing is find the right people and put them in the right places in your business. Once you do that, you will see the power of getting out of the way and letting people do a really good job for you. Deliver a great customer, deliver great customer support. So the idea that you, um, you know, you have a process of actually working through what the customer needs are, um, making sure that they have what they need to be able to say what they need to say. And so how does that look? Um, how do you get feedback from your customers? Um, go aggressive with social media. I think you can't do enough with social media at this point. Um, I'm gonna say post, post, post, have people dedicated to doing that in your business. I think it's really important for brand awareness and whatever, um, you know, channels that your business is trying to continue to connect to from a target marketing standpoint. Um, provide training, this is number 8, provide training to your employees. I love this. This is like, um, if the people don't know what they're doing, then you're in big trouble. So make sure that everybody knows how to do their job and, and they, they're trained and then ongoing training is just as important. Um, depending on what type of industry you're in, um, it is important to make sure people have the skill set to do the job they need to do the best way they can do it. Um, write a blog, make sure that people can, um, kind of hear about you and, and, and blogs are, are something that stick around on social media. So if you can message a blog correctly, it can hit your target market. Uh, grow your email list, spend time and intentional time going out and finding new email contacts once they become part of your email database, go back to that automation thing, it just becomes easier and easier to reach more and more people. Um, make it easy to subscribe to your email list. So a lot of a lot of times when you're sending out things on emails, um, make sure it's easy click buttons because everybody's um very busy and for them to get on your email list, if it's not easy, then it's probably not going to happen. Um, make customer satisfaction a priority. If you're not doing this, have some type of customer satisfaction survey or some type of process that your business is constantly looking at where are the customers, are they satisfied. Uh, generate a positive work culture. This is ESOP 101, right? I mean, this is the whole idea of like if people don't like what they're doing and they're working for you, then most likely the customers are going to experience that. Um, but if they like what they're doing, the customers are gonna have a great experience. Um, if you aren't an ESOP yet or you're thinking about an ESOP, this is huge. Um, I always say ESOPs don't create the culture, but they, you can take a good culture and make it way better with an ESOP. Know your customers, understand who they are, they're buying patterns. Um, this is all part of the CRM thing, know how to build strong relationships with your customers, um, assess that as I think an ongoing thing as well in your business, see where you are. I think sometimes we, we do really well with, with customer service and then other times we kind of slide back into complacency because we're just people. Provide onboarding for new customers. I think sometimes we, we tend to forget like how the experience of becoming a new customer should be an unbelievable experience. So do like a red carpet treatment or something that would be just be awesome for your customers to, to say, wow, that was a great experience and they're gonna tell their people this is wonderful, um, engage in corporate social responsibility tactics. This means think about your community. Whether it be uh nationally or locally, what can you do to get involved? I think that comes, that comes a long way, do the right thing. Um, people notice that it's not just about building your business, it's about building your community. This is pretty popular developing a brand standard guide, and I, I could just say that right now, um, the, the image of your business does matter and hiring professionals to do this is key because um you're, it's just like we think about our houses and we, we can do everything we can to go to, you know, the department store, find furniture and everything, but an interior decorator can make your house look unbelievable. So, um, hiring a brand style person to help you do that would be my advice. Creating. This is kind of foundational to every business, but creating or reinventing yourself from a vision and a mission statement standpoint. If people that work for you don't know what you're all about, um, they don't know where you're gonna go with the company, then you're, you're gonna have a problem there. Focus on what sets you apart from the competition. What's your value proposition? What is what makes your business unique? Um, this is definitely something from an ESOP standpoint. We're gonna, we're going to pull out as a strength and as we do ESOP planning, as we start thinking about our, our presentation to the trustee. Why are we way better than the competition and, and we're going to hit that hard. Now, if we don't have a lot there, let's think about it. Sometimes we don't really realize what we're actually doing. So you go back to the customer focus group, you're like, hey, you know, why would you choose us, whatever, get the information. Um, and then always be building your value proposition as time goes on, you know, what can you continually do that's innovative that nobody else is doing, more like a blue ocean strategy type of thing. Develop um strong messaging documents. So how do your employees talk about the company and their products? How do you message that correctly as your business grows larger? I like to think about employees really are like your ambassadors. I mean, they really do tell the story to people they know, um, whether that be new customers or even hiring new talent, they're going to be telling the story. So how do they tell the story is important um to make sure it's told correctly. Um, offer multiple support channels. One of the things, this is kind of basic, but one of the things I think, um, everybody's communicating on all kinds of different platforms. You have email, telephone, social media, um, we have online, we have Zoom now, we have Teams, we have, um, just multiple things that people will kind of gravitate towards. So make it available to your customers, um, even internally, we have more channels now, we have Slack and, and different ways to communicate with one another. The communication issue, I think in general, and I don't get stuck on this, but it's so key to most companies where if you identify and assess in a company that they just have poor communication, you know that there's going to be other problems because there's going to be people not really getting it. Um, you want to have good flowing information. So that's the way, one of the ways to do that. Uh, define the customer journey, map out the stages of your sales, you know, process of getting your customer from here, from a prospect to the customer, and look at those iterations of of steps to get from one thing to the next and really evaluate what, what could be done better within each of those stages. Um, personalize your interactions, you personalize your actual interactions with prospects and customers when you store data about them and then really personalize it, and things maybe like, hey, the birthday and you remember their birthday, that's huge, right? If, if, if somebody knows that your customer had a uh a baby or something like that happen and and you guys, and the company sends those types of things out, that's a very strong way to um to help build customer relationships. Engage with industry influencers, people that really understand your, your industry, industry influencers are people with high profiles in your industry. Um, one of the things about ESOPs is, if you do a controlling sale of an ESOP, one of the things you will have to eventually do is build a board of directors with, say, an independent board member. This is a perfect slot for for that type of person. Who can connect you to a stronger um part of the industry, ultimately leading you to a place where you're, you know, you're gaining more ground from a growth standpoint. So now let's, let's shift our gears and talk. So we went over those really quickly. Hopefully, there were some good ideas for you. Let's shift over to the idea of, of scaling your business. So, as I said before, the, the key difference with growth is that scales achieved by increasing revenue without incurring significant costs. While adding customers revenue um and revenue exponentially, costs should only increase incrementally, if at all under a scaling model. One of the, one of the greatest examples of this from the article is um how Google has scaled. So Google, um, really going through a lot of different um growth stages or whatever, since, since its existence, um. Basically, I think from this article, as of 2017, it had 7 products with over 1, over a billion active users. And so what they're doing is, is really just continually adding new users, um, and they've created this, this platform that has the applicability of all types of ways to bring on um new customers. So they're an excellent example of a company that has scaled. But when you start thinking about it, we're not Google. You know, ESOP guy. I'm not Google, we're not Google either. So I don't have the kind of Google model that most people have. So let's talk a little bit about just a plan of helping a company go through a scaling process. So, One of the things that we would, we would start with is just thinking about achieving um this idea of repeatable and predictable systems. So what we want to do really is, is look at our processes and our systems and understand that how how repeatable those processes are and predictable those systems are, will help um basically leverage those systems into something that's scalable. So that's, that's kind of the overall concept behind. Scalability. So I think that sometimes, you know, when you start thinking about your business, it's everybody's so busy, right? And the key issue that we have is that we're too busy to do what's really important when you start thinking about um the four quadrants and you know, Stephen Covey's 4 quadrants and you're like, I want to do what's important, but not urgent. Because in that 4th quadrant, I can kind of really move things. So this is one of those things where I can actually start things. I want, I want to go through a couple step process that might help you in that, but I will, I will say to you that If you do this, Without like um getting out of the business a little bit without getting away from the, the day to day phone calls and all the other things that happen, um, then it's really difficult to implement anything and get through the process. So this is definitely like a retreat idea for, for the company. So the first thing is, is really to start off and and develop a plan. So the, the planning really starts with A detailed sales sales growth forecast, um, broken down by new customers, orders and revenue that you want to generate includes a, include a like spreadsheet and break it down as you as specific as you possibly can, um, but also realistic in terms of your sales acquisition process in, in metrics. So if your metrics are, you're winning 20% out of 80% proposals, that's going to be important, right, to include in this plan. Now, the other, the second part of this is as you start doing that sales forecast, which you're going to want to come back to and is really look at what is required in order for this to really fully take on shape. So it's, I got to add more technology, I got to add more people, I got to add more infrastructure. So we're, what we're doing is we're analyzing that because what we're looking for. is innovative ideas to grow my sales without having to make these huge influence or injections of capital. So if I can do that, then I, then I've achieved this. So I don't think anything's perfect between I'm, I'm a, I'm a Google company and I can scale like they have. I think there's a combination of growth and scaling that kind of work together. So, um, I don't think it's just like this or that. I think the idea behind all of it is when we think about growth itself, how do we grow more efficiently? So we want to identify all of the potential new costs. Now this, Again, ding ding ding forecast, right? So this is what we do in forecasting. So you're, you're kind of having to do this anyways if you're going to go through the ESOP process. So we start off and we really evaluate that. Um, I like to tie it back to the business plan anyways, but we're putting, we're putting numbers here in terms of representing what those look like. All right, now, let's just say the second step is we get through that. Now, we have a plan to scale the business. Um, but in order to scale the business, we're going, we're going to have some type of investment. So we want to make sure that we've, um, we've got the capital and the resources to support that, that program. So this comes back to the forecast. Whatever that's going to be, we're going to have to build into the, into the model to say we are going to invest this much in whatever it's going to be. We need new computer equipment, we need a new sales director, we need whatever it is, um, we need to make sure that that's, that's modeled out. Um, but what we are holding this accountable to do is hit the numbers that we've, we've put into the to the forecast because it's the whole point of the Of this is to make sure that we, we've got something that makes sense and from a business decision standpoint, um really works. The third part is going to take and really look at the processes and you're gonna, you're gonna evaluate and assess the sales process. And so, do you have a sufficient number of leads to generate the, the sales forecast that you're gonna have? Do you have Marketing systems in place to track and manage those leads. Do you have the people that you're gonna need to run those types of programs? Um, are there enough sales representatives to follow up and close the leads? Um, go back to our customer service example. Do you have a customer onboarding program that, that will help retain the new customers as they start off? So it helps you to kind of really evaluate where you are and there, there might be a whole more, a whole bunch more list of items and questions there you need to ask. But properly assess from a client acquisition standpoint, a custom customer acquisition standpoint where, Prospects turn into customers and those become, those become, they stick and they become part of your whole um platform of growth. Next thing is, is thinking about technology, we mentioned this a little bit in in automation, um, definitely have a technology plan that matches your forecast in your business plan. How and this, this is again, maybe you need some consulting here to help get an IT company or um it's not necessarily an IT company that manages your network, by the way, it's, it's a technology guru that can look at what's, what's available in your industry, um, that this comes back to the CRM or it could come back to. How you're managing inventory or manufacturing or HR. So the steps towards automation in those areas is kind of critical to this, this stage of, of planning. Um, of course, there's going to be an expense here, but the what I look at and, and I've seen this in our own business, the more we've invested in technology, it has been able, it has allowed us to scale because what we're tracking in our business is the number of the the amount of revenue per FTE. And so that relationship, that, that ratio is really critical to see how scalable my the business plan has been, um, when you really look at it. And, and what it does is it proves out that the more we've invested in technology, that's repeatable, right? It's because it's once it's, once that technology is, is installed and it's just you're updating the updates, it's repeatable. So, We can leverage that pretty strongly and we don't need as many FTEs to do that. So that's, that is when I start thinking about a service business, for instance, where you have a lot of payroll, that's critical, you know, and that kind of thing. So be thinking about your technology plan and how do you get there, um, to help support where you're really going with your forecast. One of the, one of the ways of growing your business and I would say is important and it connects to your next section here, which is one of the greatest resources we have is people, right? And so talent recruitment, talent retention, um, how we recruit and hire people, this comes back to the ESOP. So, um, part of our whole strategic plan here as we start thinking about this is I'm going to establish an ESOP and really utilize that to recruit and hire more people. But Aside from the ESOP and aside from your full-time employees, one of the things that will, you'll look at as your business grows is, should I outsource that function? Because sometimes we, we wait and wait and wait, because we can't really find maybe the right person. We are in a tight job market, everybody, I mean, that, that's definitely true. So we wait and wait and wait. And meanwhile, functionally, the responsibilities of the business, you know, they're getting done, but they could be getting done at such a better level. So it might be better for you to go ahead and outsource, you know, maybe the a fractional CFO for instance, you maybe don't want to bring on somebody full time at that level yet. So, Um, people are outsourcing the marketing. Some of the people are outsourcing, um, obviously technology we talked about, there's just a lot of things to think about. Um, finding key resources that way is really important, but making sure you qualify them and making sure they can deliver on what they, on what they say they can do is important. But it definitely can help a company work through the gap until you're ready to bring on somebody full time. So that will be um scalable in the sense because you can really keep things moving with your forecast. So, so those kind of pieces, I don't think that's a surprise to anybody, the things I just covered, but I think they need to be worked on directly and I think they have a lot of potential to help a business grow, um, and, and eventually, hopefully they have the potential to help a business scale. And if you can do, if you can do that, I think the whole idea behind it is, um, submitting your forecast for the ESOP as we come back to that, um, that hopefully helps you think about how to um submit something that has some realism to it, but also, um thinking big, you know, thinking like King Kong, maybe, um. And then as we do that, hopefully that helps to improve the whole ESOP process, the whole evaluation and everything else. So hopefully, that really helps you think, think about growth and scalability, maybe in a new way, hopefully you get some, some ideas behind that. Um, thank you so much for listening today. Um, we are so excited to be in season two and look forward to our next step on this journey to.