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Suggest questionThis episode deals with the need all businesses have to build talent in their company. The topic comes at the beginning of the year as we start to think about building the business for a sustainable ESOP which really does improve the strength of the company from a valuation as well as the long-term value. Just as important - the business has the benefit of a leadership team to support the transition of selling shareholders into key positions. This podcast is just a good reminder to think about your efforts and processes related to recruiting key people.
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<p><!--block-->I can't just run off and join the circus when I sounds really nice let's just say that I find it much more comfortable admiring your show from afar Comfort the enemy of progress, do you understand that just as so sitting with you could cost me my inheritance what could cost you more than that you'd be risking everything be risking everything, everybody this is the ESOP guy welcome to season 4 2023 I thought today would be a great day to talk about, recruiting Talent so this podcast is for those people that are thinking hey I want to do an ESOP or I've heard about an ESOP which stands for Employee Stock ownership plan, I don't know a lot about it I need to kind of figure more about what's going on before I jump in and get into this so there's a lot of topics on this podcast we go into and this one today is really going to be because it's like, a New Year we're moving into spring, and it's kind of looking at like how do you build your company and one of the major things I've seen in my career is just this idea that. <br> <br> [1:14] Companies that do really really well successfully in building their companies usually have. <br> A core element of talent that has perpetuated and propelled the company up to another level, and how do you get there right so what's the secret sauce for some of these people I mean. <br> In and what happens is if you think about and a business is somebody really has the the. <br> <br> [1:44] I guess the know-how of doing something and they have the. <br> The gumption to start a company and just go for it and at some point they're going to hit that wall that invisible wall of ik I can only do so much now and so they have to be able to go to the next level and scale up, so recruiting Talent is a very important part of any company as they build their business as they build the value of the business and going into an ESOP, it's so important because the ESOP is about transitioning it's not a complete exit strategy it will be part of the exit strategy it's part of a succession planning strategy it's part of a growth strategy so there's a lot of, elements too, what the ESOP is but one thing is that one thing that really sticks out when we do ESOP planning is what is the future because we do think a lot, and we plan a route around the future a lot so what does not only in my existing leadership team look like but what is the future leadership team look like, and that really does whether we like it or not that involves, recruiting talent and and whether we're going to do it in the midst of the ESOP or we're going to do it in the future it's going to happen and so. <br> <br> [2:54] You know a lot of companies have you know people that are full-time recruiters sometimes companies go to people that do recruiting full-time or are companies that find people for us oh Headhunters, and so there's a lot of different approaches to that so this topic today is really going to be about maybe reminding all of us to be thinking about how do we do that better, ideas that might really help in the process of doing that but the the the truth is that when you do find people, that the company is going to have any bring them in an onboard I mean to the company the company is going to have a positive result from all that so that's really what we're all about. <br> <br> [3:34] Music. <br> <br> [3:40] Right here right now I put the off around I don't wanna check it out I don't you see you you run with me and I can cut you free. <br> <br> [3:52] Music. <br> <br> [4:34] Okay. <br> Stop right there so that's the offer all right now I did play all the lyrics to the first part of the song which is fairly involved but I'm using it to talk about. <br> Creating a compelling offer for your candidate. <br> And I think one of the cool things about what Wolverines doing here and it's really PT Barnum but we all know him as Wolverine, is he saying like there's a reason for you to consider this is he starting off talking about money. <br> No he's starting to talk about like hey I know that you're bored you know you're kind of playing this, silly Part in this little thing that you're doing and so he's also creating for him and in the offer and again I underline this it's like your offer needs to be compelling. <br> But it needs to to. <br> Hit the the points are the buttons that the candidate has and he kind of knows the guys like a little bit bored right so he's playing that out but he's creating what he's doing he's creating a vision for the why, like the why of his life what is your life mean you're bored you don't have anything to do this is the, the greatest thing you could possibly ever get involved in and so it's really quite clever and I know it's all wrapped up in a in a show tune but. <br> <br> [5:58] I think it's kind of fun to break apart and look at that and say well how would that look how would we make a compelling offer to our candle while we first have to get to know the candidate right I mean I'm talking about somebody. <br> That I'm not talking about just hiring every single person like this so keep it keep this in mind I'm I'm talking about, Yorkie level people that are going to change the company that are going to move the dial all these different things that we say about you know how what people can bring to the organization. <br> And it could be put you know you could be hey I'm ready to hire that next CFO it could be I'm ready to hire a CEO could be person that, I'm get you in the door Business Development wise with with companies or customers that you couldn't otherwise so we're talking about key Talent so getting to know them, make me you know helping to understand what makes them tick what are their likes and dislikes you know those are conversations that are going to take time and just thinking about that for a second, the best place to do that the best way to do that, of course is in person I mean we all are super comfortable doing Zoom meetings and phone calls and of course we're an email, society and a texting Society so but this is the kind of conversation. <br> That you will you want to have that a deeper level of getting to know that person and so. <br> <br> [7:25] Many times people have full-time recruiters that are doing this this is something that I would totally advise you if it's a key Talent. <br> Top person in your company it may be the person that's even selling their shares in an ESOP. <br> That they're going to be the ones that are can they're going to commit the recruiter gets the door open but the people that there were really recruiting Talent there the decision-makers in the organization so that's that's the first thought process is thinking about how do you make compelling offer and, one of the things because our society is changing so fast and we're also walking out of maybe we're still kind of within this great resignation period there's a Thursday weird thing happening and, the minds of people as far as what it looks like to go work for some companies and. <br> <br> [8:16] What it looks like from a long-term standpoint which is changed a lot what it looks like from, not just the opportunities but the the way that people are thinking about their lives where they want to live so there's a lot of things that are going on one of the elements of that that I think are really important as we think about this topic is. <br> Is that things move fast and one thing that can be detrimental to recruiting talent in your organization, is if you're really slow in getting through the the the steps that you're going to take. <br> And so I'm always super into creating business processes because I think they. <br> The repeatable they're really good because as people come in and they grow your business grows you don't have to think guess reinvent the wheel so in your business process for recruiting I would say that there needs to be some mandatory, um guidelines as far as the pace of how this process works as far as the interview process as far as the you know. <br> <br> [9:23] It can conversations that need to be had how many interviews the testing process all the things that might go into. <br> The actual hiring somebody you know if you boil that down to a process I would say then the next part of that is to really think about the time. <br> Because if you're not quick if you're not quick on the draw and somebody else makes an offer for something that's super talented then that's. <br> That's your flaw in your business process right so that's that's going to be a key to making a compelling offer. <br> <br> [9:54] One thing that can happen to is people can get scheduled you know you might you might have a key person that needs to interview this person and they're on vacation and, so that's going to happen what what you don't want to happen and I think this is just common sense in terms of relationships, if you don't want to have too much dormancy time or too much time where things are just not happening and people don't know. <br> What's happening on the other side so you're as you are the recruiter. <br> Recruiting Talent you want to make sure that you've built in your business process. <br> Dates even if you don't have any news like provide hey we're still working on it we're you know we got an interview with. <br> With Jethro I'm just throwing out that name hypothetically I don't know if Jethro you're out there but we have an interview with Jethro and he's the, the key person for this one area and we really want you to get to meet him but for both sides right so letting people know where what your plan is letting people know, that you are working towards the this is fast as possible is another part of creating a compelling offer. <br> <br> [11:06] The other part of this too as we start thinking about some of the some of the ideas too. <br> Create a very compelling offer is partly this is true because we're talking about ESOP companies and I don't want to. <br> Say that every company didn't happen don't doesn't you know of course other companies have these but for an ESOP company, whether you're an ESOP company right now or you're going to be an ESOP company let's go style a back for a second and think about what are the core values of your business because. <br> <br> [11:39] Really when you think about it these are meaningful work places these are places that people. <br> You know you know that they should work at your place because you have such solid core values and if I'm saying something to your like hey I don't really have any core values then let's go backwards a bit and say hey you should you should create. <br> In your in your approach and I will tell you there's a couple different, schools of thought on this the major one that's existing right now is the EOS traction model that's talking all about you know building your core values of your business at the very beginning of doing traction. <br> And so whether that my business has an operates with the highest Integrity or my business operates with teamwork or we are, I'm going to be a business that. <br> Um has very strong opportunities for the entire company there's there's a lot of different core values being able to. <br> Articulate your core values is part of the compelling offer and it needs to be thought through in a way that could be. <br> Verbally and it could be just part of the written information that a candidate might get. <br> <br> [12:51] If it's just written though and it's not articulated from the that maybe the recruiter or the top people then it's not going to have as much weight just so you know and I think that people of today. <br> When looking at different opportunities are going to take somebody's company and their core values quite seriously because there's, there's a that's part of how people think it's part about how people think about what they're getting into and that's going to be meaningful to them for you to articulate those in the right way. <br> <br> [13:25] Music. <br> <br> [13:31] So thanks but no I think I'm good to go is that quite enjoy the life you're safe. <br> <br> [13:37] Music. <br> <br> [14:17] Don't need to see the other side what happens the candidate then in this. <br> <br> [14:23] Showcased song is going to turn him down all right so what happens he got turned down, what is behind what are behind the words though if you really listen to what he's saying is he's he's really kind of afraid to jump out of his unknown like his thing that he knows it's like I'm saying hey I've got everything I'm made in the shade here, maybe they're working for a big company you know which. <br> I always I've always found it interesting to try to recruit somebody from a big Corporation when I have this opportunity to. <br> What I think is a small business midsize business company that we represent. <br> Has way more opportunity I can let me I can see it because I've been living in that world for so long but I did do the big company thing like I did that and I knew I kind of knew that if I stayed in that big company situation I would. <br> Be okay right I would have opportunities and get promoted and all this stuff I'd be you know but one of the things I learned in this in this is just a little bit of a rabbit hole, but I think it's relevant as we start thinking about how people think. <br> <br> [15:31] I learned that as as I was working for the big company that. <br> <br> [15:39] Over every you know year after year what I really boiled it down to is I. <br> I felt like first off I was a good employee okay let's just let me start with that I felt like I was a good employee did a good job every year, pretty much hit my goals every year you know was not a hindrance you know was was a resource and a help to the company that I work for. <br> But what I realize is if I boil everything I do down every single year that's value but that's the value that I'm creating. <br> And in exchange for that value that I create the company rewards me with. <br> <br> [16:19] What they reward me with salary they reward me with a bonus, they reward me with time off maybe all these different things that are that are nice right but every year I got to just keep doing that right and so but there's no accumulation, a value for me over a long period of time I just keep building value in exchange for this. <br> Maybe good salary so here's the situation with this guy I mean he's comfortable. <br> And as not much of a it's not as much of the comparable comparable financial situation, it's just he's afraid to take a make a change in his life which people that work for companies whether they're working for a big company or a smaller company, or whatever job that they're in sometimes they're just afraid to move out and that's what the is you think about these lyrics that's what these guys start identifying with. <br> <br> [17:13] You know I he can kind of hear that and so what do you do when somebody says no first off is part of the question we're in the middle of trying to build this compelling offer and then how do you work through a potential objection like that in a way that. <br> You know if you just give up at this point okay well see you later have a nice day it's ultimately up to the person the candidate to make a choice when you're thinking about it. <br> But you have to realize there's there's going to be some hesitancy and if there's not a little hesitancy then then something's wrong maybe with this person that you're trying to hire they're going to have questions and. <br> <br> [17:48] The other side of it is let me just say this to we're making this compelling offer but Meanwhile we're watching for how the person thinks and acts, and that might just pull some of the glitz off of who they really are and maybe they're not the talent that you need it so so those are some things that kind of weave through and think, as you're working through your own compelling offer for. <br> So as we do this though I think one of the next things to think about in terms of creating this compelling offer is to try to do a better. <br> <br> [18:20] You know maybe maybe the very beginning part is like this is how the job works this is the opportunity but maybe giving them a, deeper dive into what they're going to get to do and what the short-term and the long-term opportunities are because I think that, for what I was describing in my situation and my story is that what I was looking for in a long-term opportunity was ownership. <br> You know and as an ESOP company. <br> Or the plan to be an ESOP company that is something certainly you can think about and maybe share with with the person if you feel confident. <br> You know I'll underline that my my word right there if you feel confident that that's going to be something that's going to happen you would never want to recruit anybody under false pretense like that would be absolutely wrong but if you are pretty confident that that was going to happen. <br> And you are a year away or six months away or something within the short-term then I would definitely throw that out your you're the other side of it is your management incentive plan, maybe just phenomenal you may already have some existing synthetic Equity that's available available for these types of people. <br> <br> [19:28] Still so that's the Deep dive on the financial part but the other part of the Deep dive is about the quality of the work or the quality of the opportunity and highlighting and showcasing some of these things hey you you're going to have the opportunity to run this team. <br> <br> [19:42] And this is where we've gotten it so far this is the vision that the company has for this where it's going to go and then you know that's like an excitement point right so for the other person who is the candidate that. <br> Can then say hey that's something I would love to do I've always loved I've always wanted to build my own blah blah blah. <br> And so here's the Deep dive is is D is deepening this place and so even if they've gotten into this place of hesitancy or even a flat-out no, there's nothing to lose if you think that the right person to lay out these things hey would you give us another chance to kind of walk through some of the other aspects of the role. <br> The next thing I would do is thinking about this is provide a very good perspective on your culture and again being and potentially sap company, I think culture is going to resonate with not only your candidates of who you're trying to recruit. <br> Also the whole organization and it should resonate primarily and highly with the leadership of the company it should be something that there, extremely proud of in want to talk about because let's just say that the culture. <br> <br> [20:55] Is a place a fun place to work we work hard but it's a fun place to work I'm just being super super straightforward and simplistic and but, this is let me show you let me talk to you about the stories related to that we have we go to the beach every year after busy season and we have a beach blast and beach party where we go out and we play games, and we have fun and families come out and and that's just who we are in the fall we do a big fall picnic at Christmas we have a, event where we have everybody come out and we do something fun like Topgolf there's just a lot of things that we do. <br> These are really just things that I just rolled off from my head things that we do automatically and you as the leader need to be able to speak to those specifically. <br> And they here's the the here's the thing I like about talking about culture if they don't if those things don't resonate with the person you're trying to hire then. <br> You may not want to hire right if they're not that wow who cares right then that's their problem that's something that they maybe that's not a good indicator for us so so I would say definitely as part of your compelling offer talk about culture. <br> <br> [22:07] It's really how you like to spend your days whiskey misery and parties a playlist. <br> Is this really how you'd like to spend your days whiskey and misery and parties in place so so here the recruiter is saying. <br> Yeah you know as it again questioning the way that this guy's thinking and so this is this is his way, overcome the obstacle and so what he's doing in this is he's getting into the candidates head and he's. <br> Kidding him to think about things and getting them to talk about the things that he's really objecting to and so he's he's questioning something and of course. <br> Kind of talking about the reality of the boredom again. <br> And the purposelessness of this guy's of this guy's work or his career at this point which could be of course, taken negatively if you did it the wrong way right so but getting into the candidates had really is about asking the right open-ended questions and we think about open-ended questions we know that these are things that will get somebody to talk, right and again think not just talk but think about their life and how they want it to improve their life and so so that's definitely going to help you as you start. <br> Working through the process of this this back and forth. <br> The opportunity to recruit somebody that might be a really good fit for your company. <br> <br> [23:34] Premium parties who played if I were mixed up with you I'd be the Talk of the Town. <br> <br> [23:40] Music. <br> <br> [24:02] You so here we go this is the off this this offer keeps getting deeper and deeper right because they keep going through this. <br> This objection and listening for the candidates objections is important I mean really listen and so. <br> We does he then the recruiter which is the Wolverine or PT Barnum in this in this lyric lyrical storyline that we're doing is coming back with what. <br> <br> [24:33] He's coming back with empathy. <br> <br> [24:36] You know and then he in he's not just kind of coldly talking to this guy he's he's like wow you know that would be interesting like for you I understand that you feel that way but listen. <br> You would finally live a little finally laugh a little, give me the let me help me to give you the freedom to live a little so he's he's now continually making the same the same offer but he's reshaping it around the true objections as they've worked through it so I think it's just, really. <br> <br> [25:05] You know quite interesting how the whole thing plays out so then really what is the next point is in regards to this is keeping what you're saying. <br> Authentic. <br> <br> [25:16] And now when people use the word authentic right now as it's like it's so overused right and our culture Echo that's got to be so authentic man you know. <br> <br> [25:26] There there is a truth to that that's why people are so into it there's a truth to it because every single human being I believe on the planet has a radar system that says you're not really authentic you're full of crap, I'm sorry I said that but you you're just like I get it like you're not I'm not going to be and they may not say anything to you most like most likely they're not going to say something to you if you're if you're like that so, the thing is is that that that's not something that you can put on deep down right either you are authentic or you're not. <br> And my advice here is just be yourself as a recruiter like whoever you are be who you are and you probably are like that anyways but I think that's just part of it that needs to be said out of that people can tell whether or not, positive or you know your approach to things is. <br> You know overly critical or all these things might be touch points for them or decision-making touch points for them to be thinking about how do I want to really work for these people. <br> <br> [26:30] And the same thing goes on the other side if the candidates not authentic. <br> Then do you really want them as part of your organization so as we think about this. <br> I think it's important then to now as we start thinking about that they are the right person we're getting we're getting closer to wrapping up, the whole upper after opportunity well it's intriguing but to go with cost me greatly so what percentage of the show would I be taking. <br> So here we go here's the question about compensation and really the advice here is as you think about making the offer this, I have a lot of interview time with people and. <br> I know that there's a this kind of like comes comes for me you feel your way through it some people, they're going to ask you like right off the rip like hey what's this thing going to what are you guys even paying is it even in the I don't know waste your time and you don't waste my time so so the advice here is get compensation off the table early. <br> <br> [27:35] And sometimes that's difficult because you don't know who you're interviewing you know you can just have this discovery process, it says he really got to get to know you a little bit to make sure that your right candidate but you certainly want I think just to give hey the this is the level of salary or compensation if it includes bonuses, that were thinking this is the range that were thinking. <br> And so just get that on the open this case he's like hey tell me I'm going to if I'm coming aboard I want to I want a piece of the action right I want something and so. <br> <br> [28:08] As we go through. <br> The Next Step here it's going to be working through the actual negotiation of compensation which will let that happen here now. <br> Fair enough you'd want a piece of all the action I'll give you. <br> <br> [28:24] Music. <br> <br> [28:45] So here they just, settled on 10% and awesome awesome awesome so they he ends up going with PT Barnum and basically, takes the job so so that's a whole lyrical storyline of making an offer from ins and outs and it helped us kind of guide our way through the making an offer a compelling offer and what are the key components of that, to get to now there's a whole other discussion about, onboarding and things like that they're going to be really important as far as not just recruiting talent but you know getting them in place making sure they fit in your organization correctly but we'll leave that for another day so one thing one final thought I have for this is some things that we're trying to do and think about and I think other people are. <br> Is how do you use your technology technology more like how to use your website more how do you how do you do those things better and so we're doing like videos and different ways but there's one idea here just to kind of finish up, is that you know creating a video like a day in the life video of somebody that's in your in your company. <br> <br> [29:52] That could be professionally made but that's really helpful for people to be imagining visually what it looks like and that's why, you know you can use all of the things that we talked about but also my advice here is to use technology as a really great tool, to continue to tell the story but it's not going to replace at least in my generation I'm thinking that the the one on one conversations over lunch or breakfast or coffee. <br> When it comes to getting to know people and all the things we just talked about it's not going to replace that because there's there's things there that just have to be done. <br> So hopefully that was helpful like I said if you. <br> Do you find Value in this podcast Please Subscribe and share it with a friend if you think that would be helpful to them so again thank you so much and we look forward to our next step on this journey to an ESOP. </p>
About Journey to an ESOP & Beyond
ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Phillip Hayes explains the process of the ESOP transaction and addresses ESOPs from a business owner’s perspective. The "ESOP Guy" illuminates the simplicity of ESOPs as he debunks common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated.
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