How Do You Handle the Fact That a Lot of People Don't Like You?

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman we recorded this week's conversation early on Friday May 29th shortly before the protests of the horrifying killing of George Floyd erupted and set the entire country on edge I'm sure we will address what happened including the Damage Done to one of J Go's Chicago stores in next week's episode this week our conversation centered on Laura Xander struggle to get control of a texas-based yarn supplier she acquired last year she's had issues with inventory personnel and quality control and then her general manager walked out which has Laura scrambling to figure out what to do next and feeling deflated knowing that she could have handled the situation better that some employees are talking about her and that some just don't like her I really struggle with that she says at one point am I the only one that struggles with stuff like that even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will if nothing else let owners know they are not alone in facing these extraordinary challenges if you know a friend who might benefit from this conversation please share it you can subscribe wherever you get podcasts and if you do please review us and rate US it makes a big difference if you have questions or suggestions you can always email them to me my email address is L Feldman 21h hats.com this week's 21 hats podcast lineup features Jay goz whose businesses in Chicago include a picture frame shop artist frame service and a home furnishing store Jason Hol and Laura Xander co-founder and CEO of Jimmy Bean wool a digital version of of a neighborhood yarn shop that is based in Reno Nevada this episode is called how do you handle the fact that a lot of people don't like [Music] you let's do a quick update Laura last time we talked to you you told us you were about to get on an airplane and fly to Texas did that happen no it did not I am actually going to go this Monday so I delayed it why well I was going to go because we were going to be hiring a new person um and onboarding her and there was some drama around that so I wanted to be there for that um but then we ended up not hiring that person and we decided that without any super significant urgent reason for me to be there that it wasn't worth the risk and that we'd let things play out for a couple more weeks so what I have decided is I'm going to go on Monday and then I'm just going to stay for two weeks there so instead of going there Monday coming back Friday going there Monday coming back Friday um I'm going to go there Monday come back the following Friday and then I'll stay here in Reno for a couple weeks and quarantine in Reno and then I'll go back to Texas for two weeks um and maybe I'll just kind of keep doing it that way for a little while are you feeling comfortable about the travel was that part of the reason you you put it off um I feel comfortable I don't have a problem but Doug was a little nervous about it um so yeah it was more for him you know he thought it would be better if I didn't go you know and that's what you do oh isn't that sweet yeah that's we'll have a whole other discussion about being married to your business partner that's a different show altogether yeah it is it is it just it wasn't necessary quite yet and it actually worked out really well um our the woman that had been our GM that we hired in January to be our GM she ended up walking out last week so um so it worked out better that I was gone because that kind of forced the issue and it forced us to have conversations over zoom and phone and slack and that forced our communication issues to aead um and it it meant that the that the separation happened much faster than it would have if I had been there in person and then you know um it just it made things a little cleaner could you put some color on they walked out does that mean she called you in the morning and said listen I appreciate the opportunity but this isn't right for me I'm quitting did she not call you at all and you just found out through the grap Vine go ahead and scream at some people you're a bunch of losers and I'm out of here did she just not show up one day what what what was the end give us um I got a slack message from our HR manager there that when the HR manager got there that day the general manager had cleaned her desk out that had already been in there that morning um cleaned her desk out came over and just said will you please terminate me you know or I'd like to just go on unemployment um and and leave so I have not heard from her um you know we got into we had a conversation on slack the day before she left and you know I don't think she was happy with that conversation you know again our communication Styles collided uh if you want me to you know anyway Laura let's back up for a second let's just make clear this this is the company in Texas that you bought I think uh around December uh if they Supply yarn they were one of your biggest if not your biggest supplier and now you're running that business and they're uh they've been struggling as you've told us because they Supply yarn to Brick and Mortar yarn shops around the country most of which uh were shut down obviously yeah I mean I would disagree I don't say I don't think I'm running that business I think that b business is running me um but yes yeah did did you accommodate her terminating her did she terminate her yeah and did you have any qualms about that versus no because you felt like you owed it to her to let her go on unemployment um it just seemed easier yeah okay I I don't know that I necessarily owed it to her but yeah I mean I've been in a funk for the last week because I feel like I've failed you know I'm there are a thousand things that I could have done better um wait let me help you with that the fact that she quit that way tells you it was okay because if she was the grown-up that you wanted to run that business that you're not there she would have called you like a grown-up and said listen I've been thinking about our conversation this doesn't seem like the right fit for me and I appreciate the opportunity and I'm I I don't think this is going to work for either of us and I'm going to by the end of the day that's what grown-up professionals do and the fact that she didn't do that tells you she really wasn't up to the task for the amount of money you were paying her debt with grown-ups do yeah no I know and that's the bottom line is the job was too big for her you know it just was um it was a different you know she had kind of run or managed the business years ago but it was a much different business it was a reactive business as opposed to a proactive business and I you know it sounds like she had done a fantastic job before um but you know we're running things differently I'd had that conversation with her multiple times I'm like I'd given her the opportunity to go out with Grace and just say look if this doesn't work it's okay like we can totally talk about this I'll help you find something else um okay good for you then you professional and you did try to do it in the most civilized nice manner so good for you and you know uh you'll be more deliberate next time you hire for that position and I will tell you something that wait you didn't hire this person did you Laura no I did H her back you inherited her right no I hired her back he hired she hired her back she used to work there she had worked there and then was gone for a couple of years um and then I brought her back when I was your age or a couple years younger perhaps I literally not exaggerating literally went through 10 production managers in my production facility framing pictures and every time I I hire a person I would dig in oh this the last one was wrong but this guy he's the guy and then I would dig in for a month or two or three and then it would crap out whether I fired them or they quit and then I brought a consultant guy in who sent me the most poignant letter and all it matters is one sentence he said Jay I figured out the problem maybe two sentences you keep hiring production managers and you think you're hiring CEOs I got it what that meant was I was 30 some years old old and I thought that when you when you hired somebody and that was older than you and put them in a production thing that you've never done that they'll just be able to run the business and what I realized was he was saying to me you needed to manage them more now in hindsight I realized something he didn't even know which is I was hiring burnouts I was hiring people that for the kind of money I was paying made no sense so the next guy I hired 24 years ago was 20 27 years old and the amount of money I was paying was a great opportunity for him and that guy is still working for me it was all about the hiring I didn't know what I was doing with the hiring well so tell me as you're letting these people go you're going through the 10 what's the what's the um ripple effect on your other employees like are they scared all the time because they no no no not at all this is the way it worked I had I don't know uh 20 people working in roduction and it was just like with the substitute teacher in school this is exactly what would happen every time I'd hire this new person introduce them and I I almost walked away I'm telling you I I had enough going on I figured oh this guy knows more than I do I'll just leave so then okay Bob um you need to get um 87 pictures framed every day okay so the first day he'd get 87 P oh my God I got the right guy the next day 88 the third day 84 the fourth or fifth day 51 hey what happened well it was just it was a bad day I uh there were some problems with the it was just like at school they would get a feel for the guy and then as soon as they figured it out boom they slammed him I mean you know like kids in high school like oh he's really nice okay and and um it it kept happening time and time again and um and what I realized in hindsight like I said I was hiring burnouts that were never good at what they did and embarrassed to say this at this point but looking back I had a framing Factory on a third floor walkup LOF with no air conditioning what kind of winner that's 53 years old is G to take that job I had a guy that was working at Coca-Cola honest to God Coca-Cola he was working at what kind of manager that worked at coca colola is Gonna Leave coca colola to work for Jay Gold's framing pictures and his so what happened with him he just went to lunch and didn't come back so Laura tell us about your situation are do you know who you want to hire or do you know what you want to do no and I don't even know I mean here's the sad part um so she left and as it turns out like nothing has slipped through the cracks yet you know and it's it's not been a tremendous increase in work for anybody else you know so I went to everybody and I'm like okay how is this going to affect you and they're like well not it's not really you know I mean where I thought it would affect us most is that now I don't have a point person but I actually do have a point person because I was actually talking to to a couple of the other people there a couple of the other managers more than her anyway because it was just easier to have conversations and get straight answers um so that's part of me going there um next week and spending the next two weeks is I would like to learn the production side of it you know I'd like to learn what's happening are you thinking you might not have to replace her I don't know if I'm going to you needer you need a manager there you're not there which means either you need to bring someone in or maybe one of your existing manager is going to be proponent to that but like this is like animal farm this is not just going to run itself and everyone's going to be happy it you're G to have issues you're gonna have people that need that need to be managed you're gonna have people not coming in on time there needs to be a manager Jay I want to go back to something you you asked Laura about uh terminating this person versus uh having her quit in which case she wouldn't have been able to collect unemployment what what were you thinking What's um I would I would want to know more I'd want to know more things like did you take her out of another job um did she was she working hard the whole time was it your fault that you know this didn't work out um um and now at this point are you even going to get charged for the unemployment because now I'm not even sure it's going to cost you anything because some of the states aren't charging B you don't want to be I'm not being vindictive against somebody I mean explain how that works Jay how how do you how does in in normal times how does a business get charged quick version is this is in Illinois my guess is the same everywhere whatever they end up getting for unemploy Loy mment you end up paying for plus about 30% except you don't get a bill from the state of Thea going hey that guy that you fired here's your here's your $114,000 bill no what happens is it goes into your rate and your rate goes from 4.2 to 4.4 that rate meaning you pay that percentage of payroll to cover unemployment yes on every employee up to like 13,000 so you are paying for it it's just split up and then it's over three years so instead of getting a bill for 14 Grand you end up paying another you know $1,000 a quarter for the next three years I mean you are paying for it though so you do want to control your unemployment expense so Laura does this change your thinking about what you should do in this situation no not at all because I'm aware of this um and knew that's exactly what was happening but I'm also kind of hoping a little bit that with covid and everything else that the unemployment laws are a little laxer right now sounds like it was the right decision I mean it like she shouldn't have been put in that job and and that's fine and she didn't just not show up one day you know she at least showed up and asked I had someone who this just happened I just had the receptionist she just stopped showing up and that is what happened here no no no she no this woman came into the HR person and said will you terminate me my receptionist just didn't show up to work so my HR person sends her an email saying are you resigning doesn't respond to her she goes for unemployment unemployment sends a thing to us and says she's looking for unemployment and I and and the woman said in the letter she said that she uh she wanted to torture us so she wasn't going to just quit so I said back to her I said to the receptionist who who came to me I said maybe this isn't the right job for you if you can't come to work on time which I know has been a problem I'd be happy to work with you just tell the manager that you're going to be looking for a job and we we'll work with you as soon as I told unemployment that she goes thank you perfect she denied the unemployment so how do you handle the fact Jay that you know a lot of people people don't like you you know and that this woman probably goes home at night and is like Jay this and Jay that and he's so unfair and it's just that and blah blah blah and if he was smarter they would be doing this and they would be doing that like I really struggle with that am I the only one that struggles with stuff like that I would say that everyone struggles with it until they finally realize hey you're the boss it goes with the territory and I got to tell you whatever Laura tell us a little bit more about that what are you hearing are you feeling well I just you know every time somebody doesn't work out especially if it's somebody that I've worked directly with um I go in this and I'm exaggerating a little bit but and I'm I'm much better at it than I was five years ago um but and maybe that's the growth of my outer shell but you know I go into this little to kind of a deep depression of I suck and I you know if I was a better manager this would have worked out and if I had been more clear and if I had done a better job at this and you know and I can visualize all the things that they're saying to when they go home at night about how I failed at this and wait are you are you imagining these conversations or are you actually hearing them it doesn't really matter either way no I get it yeah I mean I'm imagining but I know they're happening as well I'm not they're absolutely happening and when they're not true they're fine but I know that I'm not perfect and I know that I make mistakes and I know know that there are areas that I need to be better in um and so those are the things that haunt me is the you know and in this example with this manager you know we had a conversation last week or the week before where I was just like I'm really you know I'm sorry like I know I need to do better in this and I really appreciate you giving me the feedback that you're having a hard time talking to me about x y and z um I'm going to work on that like I really am and uh and so I'm usually really open about my weaknesses but then to know that your weaknesses are being used against you and that you're not kind of getting that back um I don't know I mean that's just when somebody leaves and I recognize that you know I'm complicit in that you know if I was a more if I was Jay it may not have turned out this way except Jay's 20 years older than you and when I was your age I was having the exact same issues so what I'm telling you is you've got a God complex and you think that you're supposed to be perfect and do everything right and the fact of matter is you didn't kill her you didn't have her sent to prison um like you know what you gave her an opportunity it didn't work out she'll go find another job and you're just going to have to to learn to like you're on a good and Noble cause you think about all those wonderful employees that are with you on this mission to do nothing more than take care of customers and provide for their families and provide for a return on your investment and you got to give the rest of this up because it doesn't matter you've got 30 other people for 4 other people that you are a wonderful boss with that they thank you and they feel good and you've got hundreds or thousands of customers and you need to live in that world and give up this other stuff because that's like a baseball player going home thinking oh my God I struck out today right when they needed me what am I oh my God I can't believe it we lost leave it on the field all right okay you don't sound enthusiastic with Laura are you feeling some battle fatigue this has been a lot lately yeah yeah yeah for sure um I am but I'm also I I think uh I was okay like two days ago but then yesterday there's an issue down in Texas and so you know I'm trying to figure out how to hold people accountable from three states away during a pandemic where somebody there just we just found out somebody might have been exposed and you know the quality is not there and the quality of the yarn that they're producing yes yes so we're having some quality issues um you just you just answer my thing which is you need a manager there I mean that's the problem I mean no you're totally right I mean way to bring it back yeah that's the point like there it's not a matter of holding accountable it's just called management 101 so and when you say hold them accountable did they do it on purpose did they just yeah I mean they need some management it's just it is what it is and well and that's exactly so I mean okay great I need a manager but I can't get a manager today so I still have to deal with these problems today why um well logistically because it is 9:27 I'm on the west coast so it's 11:27 there even if I were to like go through Linkedin or whatever I don't know if I'll even be able to schedule an interview until this afternoon I don't know if I can get them to show up by 5 so I'll ask you the question I know the answer you did you write a really good ad and put it out of course not that's what I'm talking about go write a really as soon as we're done here go write a really good compelling ad talking about it's going to be like running your own business report directly to the boss who's three states away I need someone who who relishes to build a corporate culture to get the job done and write something that someone who's existing working somewhere else is gonna go oh my God this is that dream job I've been looking for my whole life and then they send you this golden resume and you look at it and You Weep and while you're weeping you're dialing the phone and you hire them and you hug and life is grand Jay it sounds like you're trying to get that person from Coca-Cola to apply for the job no I'm trying to 27y Old this is exactly what I got no I'm talking about the 27 year old guy I hired that was working at a crappy company that didn't care about quality that didn't care about their employees that saw this as a great opportunity and I love this guy I'm telling you he's been with he's my corporate soul to the company I I he he understands our whole thing he treats the employees right he both knows when that he's got to hold them he when he when he's got to take the hard line he knows when they need a hug and I have that guy there are people like that out there in the world they're one out of aund no they're one out of a hundred Laura do you need somebody who's in the industry I don't think so absolutely not no absolutely not no I just need Dana that's what I need so the answer is when you put the Zi recruiter add out you're going to get 150 resumés and you're going to look through them and think oh my God this guy is a truck driver why is he applying and this woman is a manicure yes you're gonna get 150 resumés and in there there's going to be three really interesting ones and then there's GNA be one of them that's your person but you gotta buy a ticket to win the lottery okay buy the ticket well I was just kind of on the fence because I'm like I mean if the team there feels like they can do it themselves do we need a manager um answered your question you just had a problem with you need to put someone in charge maybe there's someone there that is my that that's your person I'm not saying that that's not possible maybe there's someone that works there that has the competency the ambition and the the the nerves and the ability to all of a sudden go from being their coworker to being their manager you can find that out in a conversation yeah I think I might so maybe offline we'll chat about that because I may have somebody at that I think that could be a good fit for I've had I got to tell you something I can think of half a dozen people that we've taken from working on the line that had no self-confidence that we just that we turned into managers and there was no greater greater satisfaction reward to life and I've had people tell Dale my manager Dale one of them left she moved down South for some reason goes Dale I have to thank you when I came here I was just doing stuff and you made me a manager and you know what she moved down south and she got a job as a manager nothing is a greater success than taking someone who doesn't have confidence but has ability and giving him confidence in training and turning him to the manager that they have latent in there and there's a good chance that person works at the company well that's and actually it's funny that you say that because that's what the issue is is I feel like there's so much talent in this organization and there's so much potential but it's never been developed um and it it's never been a culture of trying to develop and pull out Talent from the people that are there um as and you know why I know why you told me enough about it to tell you why wasn't a h wife running it yeah yeah well when a husband wife runs it nothing against you when a husband wife's running it they can kind of run the whole place and never have to really delegate because one of them will cover everything so the organization never gets developed properly because one of the two of them is going to run the place and nobody needs to really take whereas in my case I was by myself I had no choice wait a second we we we got to let Laura respond to that Laura your your main operation you built your business with your husband is Jay right about that that yeah I think that's a great yeah it's very observant um absolutely and it wasn't until have you figured it out yeah yes I think I mean yes I think so well but here's the key she got it bigger that's how I know she figured out and I'm not saying husband wives are bad I'm saying some of them never grow past a certain point because they can just run the thing by themsel and keep it down to the I there's a number it actually works I think the number you told me they were doing yeah you can do a few million bucks four five but you can't get the 10 15 20 million running it like that and they didn't whereas Laura has been successful at it so yeah no they you know went big and then ended up dropping in half kind of thing but it's because they didn't develop anybody um and that's you know there are a few people that have moved up in the ranks but for the most part no so they didn't figure out how to scale it and we didn't for quite a while I mean it took me a long time to figure out how to let things go um and how to have other people do things and me not to me not having to know every single zero and one and every single sentence that was written no you and 80% of entrepreneurs that's why most companies get don't get past a certain point they just can't let it go Jay let's talk a little bit about your business you keep talking about trying to find opportunities in this crisis have you seen any of late so I've just been sitting back waiting and boom there at Blossom I got a call from my sales manager that goes did you hear soand so's closing really large frame shop that's been around for many many years oh my God our biggest competitor just closed too last week yeah so I go online I see there's a whole page he wrote on his website talking about it and then first thing this morning this is all part of the story at 7:30 I got a text from a rep that you know I'm tight with it she was servicing him and she knew this was coming and she said did you see it and I talked to her she goes well he told me I said you should call Jay maybe well I don't know if I want to so I saidhe him call me so he immediately called me we had a lovely conversation and I think I'm be able to put together something to take the thing over by the building from him and everybody wins but he needed the push to do it and um I think this is going to work out for all parties Laura you said uh you had a competitor that that just closed too do you see an opportunity in that oh it's huge yes I actually have an interview with one of with kind of the right-hand man of the CEO um this afternoon um so not only does this open up a bunch of Staffing um opportunities you know for people who are now out of a job a manager maybe no not a manager but the volume that they're doing um now is going to trickle down I mean a big part of it will trickle down to us I'm sure and it's interesting you know they this company was one that was you know it was founded by a guy who had worked for eBay and um it was very startup VC funded they had raised I don't know hundred million or something ridiculous um so they were operating at a loss for years and years and really took a chunk out of our business um a big chunk and you know then they got bought out they got bought out by NBC Universal so um then of course I mean you know this is the trajectory that you all that you watch um then NBC just shut it down last week so um it's just coming full circle so now we'll get back some of the market share that we lost to them I'm assuming we will I mean we're firing much better than we were 5 years ago um and eight years ago when they started so we're in much better shape and much more solid so it gives us a huge opportunity like on a couple different levels Jay let me ask you um you're talking about possibly buying a building I don't know if that means buying the business as well yeah no it goes with it obviously it's an an investment are you at all concerned about making that kind of invest at an uncertain time like this I we we still have a pandemic underway um you know nothing's back up uh to normal the the economy is you know obviously going through some difficulties H how are you processing that um I pull out my old Playbook I did this eight years ago I bought a big building you you told us about that but same story now I'll simply tell the guy he's got no mortgage on it I'll go look um we'll put together a sales contract I'll buy it in two years it's a solid real estate bu if I can't get the mortgage now I'll just get he'll get rent for the next two years everybody wins no I'm not worried about it and and I can't say this enough listening to all the news reports this is not the Great Depression I'm so tired of hearing that we had a pandemic it's shut things down yeah it's been brutal for a lot of people got it the world will get back on its access really it will get back on its access we will be okay it just will it be next month maybe not but I'm so tired of the of these these reports unemployment's higher than during the the Great Depression Did anyone mention that we've been shut down so we laid some PE I mean it's just where do you draw the line between trying to maintain optimism and and buing your head in the sand easy this isn't being optimistic and this isn't Burying my head of the sand it's looking a reality we had the strongest economy we've ever had unemployment was at a record low why in the world would we not get back to normal in 6 months why this is being optimistic you were just talking about businesses that are closing and not opening back up there are lot of those yeah it's not going to get back to normal but it doesn't mean that the new normal won't be healthy how about that I mean no I don't think it's gonna be back the exact same page there will be some there will be some businesses that won't open so my question to you is Will those be the best businesses or will they be the ones that did like my friend's daughter works in a pet shop they went in there they're not wearing masks she put herself out of business done over and out do I think there will be some businesses closing absolutely they already have yeah will it be me no so now the market reopens and there's less competition out there how is that going to be bad for me why should I not be forget the word optimistic why shouldn't I presume that these customers that were going to these other businesses that no longer exist why shouldn't some of them come to me so this isn't about optimism this is about simple math despite my challenge you guys have just shown why you're both successful entrepreneurs well it'll it's going to be fine it's going fine now let me give you a practical answer to that though because it's a fair question if you phrase it a little bit different Jay are you concerned that this is going to last another here's the key I'm gonna cut a deal with this guy Pro 50-50 let's assume that I Forge ahead this isn't going to be in a week it's going to be over months like if things are going down the toilet in three months I'll probably get out of it and he'll have to go sell his building to someone else so that that's the answer I was looking for you are assessing the risks you aware that there are a range of possibilities and you're protecting yourself I'm not no I'm not betting the ranch on it um um I'm buying some real estate and I'll put it in a contract but by the time that deal goes through it's going to be two three months from now I'll have a better feel for things okay so we're going to try something different this week I have a surprise quiz for the two of you I've got four questions all taken from this week's 21 hats morning report and we're going to see how you guys do is there a prize is there a prize yeah you get to come back next week oh God I want something tangible hey something material what's more tangible than hanging out with us Laura oh that's a good point yeah he's got you there okay question number one an employee-owned company in Vermont first realized something was up in early March when it saw its grocery store orders increase 600% what does this company sell flower King Arthur Flower wait wait let me give you the the options Laura ay recycled toilet paper remember this is a Vermont company a new flavor of ice cream called stay-at-home strawberry baking flour or hydroxy chloroquin made from hemp Laura your answer is baking flour Jay yeah that's a good answer yeah and and you're right that is the right company and the CEO said are those numbers a mistake can you show can you run those again and then she was in shock when she saw that they had increased 600% they had really been struggling with getting the Millennials who were Pro gluten-free and now they're all baking you're warm in my heart Laura all right question number two and this relates to you uh Laura as well during the first two months of the year the average domestic flight in the US was carrying between 85 and 100 passengers how many are flights carrying today I thought it was was at 34 Jay I'm gonna go with whatever Laura thinks she's obviously paying more attention than I am 39 ah so there have been a lot of pictures on social media of full flights uh those are the exceptions still all right this week small business lending expert this is your third question small business lending expert Ami casar noted that the application for PPP loan forgiveness is quite complicated and if you can manage to complete it you probably need some help completing it your lender then has two months to review it before submitting it to the SBA and then the SBA has 3 months to review it before approving or disapproving forgiveness so that's a total of 5 months in review after you managed to get the thing submitted when is your first payment due after how many months four months Jay whatever Laura says Jay that would be less than the time it takes to get it approved so you would have to start exactly you would have to start paying before you know whether the loan's been forgiven or not fortunately that's not the case Laura it's actually 7 months but if you don't get your act together and get that application filed you could wind up in a situation where even if you qualify for forgiveness you got to start paying back the loan got it you don't want that to happen last question you may remember an entrepreneur named Parker Conrad who started an automated HR business called zenefits its customers were small businesses and it quickly became a Silicon Valley Tech darling valued at billions of dollars then it all fell apart and Conrad had a resign in disgrace in part because they were breaking compliance rules about selling health insurance so what did Conrad do he almost immediately started another HR startup called ripling that does exactly the same stuff zenitz did in fact he hired the engineer who built zenitz for him to to build ripling Forbes recently predicted that Rippling will be valued at billions of dollars as well my question for you guys is when Conrad who got lots of venture capital to build zenefits went back to the Venture capitalists in Silicon Valley to raise money for his new startup after zenefits had fallen apart how much money was he able to raise a are you kidding me zero nothing NADA B $10 million C $100 million or d a billion dollars Laura oh I didn't read this one but I would guess a 100 million I would have guessed there too but it's probably a billion because you want to finish the show making us both want to vomit exactly 100 million doesn't make you want to vomit that does too it makes me kind of sick the other one I want to vomit while I'm jumping out the window okay you you could just feel sick it was a hundred million okay to do the same thing all over again I've accepted the fact that none of that stuff makes any sense and to the Laura world to the J World I've accepted that and I don't pay much attention to it because it is what it is yep guys we are out of time my thanks to Jay goz and Laura Xander as always thank you for sharing here in such a transparent way thank you for putting up with my questions where I try to get under your skin especially you Jay did it work do you think it works yes occasionally it works and on that note thank you both thanks for listening everybody this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions remember we started the 21 hats podcast to help business owners feel a little less isolated to let them know they aren't the only ones fighting these battles if you got something out of this conversation please help us reach more people tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter at 2core hats and let me know if you have a question or a comment or a topic you'd like us to cover my email address is L Feldman at21 hats.com see you next time [Music]