I Think People Are Ready to Get Back to Work

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman is your office fully open is everyone coming back or are you going hybrid are your employees getting vaccinated are you offering them incentives to get vaccinated when do The Masks come off are you having a problem filling jobs have you had to increase what you pay Paul DS tells us that people who really seem to want the job and are enthusiastic about it don't have the skill set and the people with the skill set don't seem to actually care about completing the process so we did hire one guy who started a week ago Monday and he quit 3 hours later in this week's episode the owners compare notes on what they're experiencing as we all search for that new normal even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will let owners know they are not alone in facing challenges same thing with our daily newsletter the 21 hats Morning Report which highlights the most important news of the day for business owners and which you can subscribe to at on hat.com where you can also find transcripts of our podcast episodes and lots of other articles and interviews joining me this week are regulars Paul DS who is founder and CEO of Paul DS cabinet makers which makes custom conference tables outside of Philadelphia Stephanie Stucky who is CEO of stues the snack and roadstop business best known for its PC log roles and William Vander blumen who is CEO of Vander blooman Search Group a recruiting firm based in Houston that works with churches and other faith-based organizations the episode is titled I think people are ready to get back to [Music] work welcome Paul Stephanie William thanks for joining me today let's start with a a quick update on where all of you stand as we uh we seem to be coming out of uh covid and uh this whole past year of pandemic uh first question those of you have who have offices are you back in the William I know you've talked a little bit about this I think you had some push back from your employees what what's the status of things now uh as of Monday we're back how'd that go um well I was out of town Monday through Wednesday so so far great no I mean seriously uh it was one of those things where I I love our staff they've been phenomenal throughout this whole mess um but I I don't know that anyone would have volunteered said why don't we all come back now and it really the longer we dealt with it the more it felt like I'm going to have to be the one to sort of just say hey here it is and and we did a let my leadership team speak into it and of course there are so many bright people with very different opinions about when things ought to start or not start so we had a broad spectrum of opinions there and some people wanted to wait till the fall and and finally I just said okay guys you know I don't micromanage and I I kind kind of called in some chips if you will and just said I don't really swoop in and tell you what to do but but this time I am and I just need yall and they all to a name said okay fine appreciate you being upfront about it and uh so we had breakfast tacos for everybody individually wrapped um on Monday and we had uh chocolate chip cookies individually wrapped on Tuesday and I think we're doing a happy hour outside next week so kind of tried to make it a a fun time to come back is everybody coming in every day or did you go for a hybrid so we came back in September and if you needed time off or you felt uncomfortable you've been exposed or whatever and and we had so many people who were getting exposed or been at a party or a thing that it was getting ridiculous and then when the holidays hit we were everybody was nervous so we were like look we can't do big bonuses this year we and try and predict your holidays so we shut back down we opened back up in an a te B Team sort of way in uh February and now we're all back all the time and did you get push back to that if there is push back I have not heard it that and and I'm not dumb enough to think that they would come tell me you know like what's the old line uh the first day you're the CEO is the last day you hear the truth so uh I'm sure there's some Buzz out there in places but best I can tell it's going pretty well now we're in Texas which has been a little more aggressive in opening than some other places I know it's different across the country but but in our world things have been opening up and the rates are staying down and and so um I I think people are ready to get back to work how about you Stephanie do do you have an office I was renting office space and then when Co hit I did not renew my lease so we have a distribution center we just bought a Manufacturing facility we have two of our key employees in Maryland who have rented office space and then my business partner and I actually each have been working out of our homes we have retail locations that sell our products some of which are franchise so we're often on the road uh and we also have three sales reps who they operate out of their homes and their cars so we really have um a model where for me as the CEO it did not make sense to rent Office Space anymore and now that we own a manufacturing facility I have an office there and I am moving to Rens Georgia in June temporarily I've got a Airbnb for three weeks and I'm going to have a I'll have an office there how far is Rens from Atlanta Stephanie it's two and a half hours so that would be quite a commute yes so I'm going to be handson I'll have an office and you know if you're in manufacturing if you have a distribution facility you really don't have the luxury of being able to work remotely you cannot shell peans electronically you can't make candy without being Hands-On at the factory so we we really have been fully operational we're largely back to normal and most of our team has been fully vaccinated at this point have you encouraged that absolutely and but with any incentives or just um I wish we were to the point where we could do some financial compensation but we offered time off from work for folks to get the vaccine and obviously if they had any side effects they they had time off to recuperate we uh found that our people really did respond well to that we said take comp time to get the vaccine if you need yes even if you just don't feel well and I guess the federal government's been pretty friendly to that allowing some tax breaks for non PTO time that employers are giving people for the vaccine so we also gave them $100 so they could go buy dinner out somewhere whenever they're comfortable doing that do you think that made a difference I I hope so that's great information thanks for sharing that um and we do have some employees who are not fully vaccinated at this point so um I might I might use that $100 incentive idea that $100 is a good incentive if you are working a a minimum wage job in a distribu facility or a line worker in a factory so I think and it's worth it to us to make sure that our employees are safe and that the the the entire Workforce is safe because one person as you know can really impact the entire team Paul I know you've been up and running uh all long or for for quite some time anyway um has anything changed for you guys uh we had one employee who was working from home most days mostly because well two factors one she experienced four deaths in the immediate family from Co o and this is in Chile Italy in the United States and so she's scared of it understandably and uh also she has a child uh who you know the school situation made it difficult for her to be in but I got to the point where her not being here was really affecting her performance and so um sort of required that she be here more and we came to a deal where she is working 4 days a week uh 8 to two everybody else has been in pretty much all the time uh some of those with children have had to take a day to set up a day in the week when they're watching and their spouse is working and vice versa so we've had a mixed set of reactions but I would say 90% of the hours now of the office staff are being done in the in the office and 100% of the shop floor hours are being done um just want to comment we we've been encouraging people to get vaccinated and had pretty good compliance the ones who had not set up appointments it turned out didn't know how to do it in my case we've got shop floor workers who uh just weren't Dept with the online tools for finding appointments and they knew they needed to get it but they were kind of at a loss of how to how to make an appointment so I think that if you're trying to get a whole Blue Collar staff vaccinated don't assume they know how to actually get online and and find an appointment Paul I'm so glad to hear you say that we we ran into the identical issue and the and the line we straddled so we have so many people that have worked as pastors in churches on our staff and I'm forever fighting the Battle of good intentions but me having to say hey we're a business not a church quit trying to be their Pastor or their parent you know and and this was a this was a time where I made an exception because there were people that just didn't know any better they hadn't had to work the system or figure out how to go on to Walgreens at midnight because that's when the appointments open or what so I'm glad to hear that's not contained to us I felt like it might have just been an us problem I think it's really easy to assume that because you're a business owner and you're used to dealing with people who are relatively technologically Adept we just don't understand the vast number of people in this country who just aren't equipped with those tools either they don't have the computer or they don't really know how to use the computer or even if they do they don't understand how you do a Google search to find quick vaccine appointment and uh um I I think it's the duty of the employer if you want people to be vaccinated to at least asked the question how can we help you and I ended up making an appointment for one of my guys who had no idea how to do it and it turns out we got him an appointment within an hour three blocks from his house just like boom and he was so astonished that that could be done lovely guy great worker he just doesn't think about those things so um I think it's worth it's worth if you're getting resistance get see whether it's just a mechanical issue of them not knowing how to do it I would uh I'd make a joke about how some business owners aren't technologically Adept either but but Jay's not with us today we can do it in Jay's absence Paul do you know what percentage of your people are vaccinated now it's pretty high I was actually thinking of for our Monday morning meeting just writing all the names down on on our whiteboard and then uh putting two boxes next to each one and then say when we've got all these boxes checks we can throw away the masks and then we'll see what happens happens can you ask that I can I don't know what'll happen no I mean like seriously from a hip-up standpoint what are you guys hearing about whether or not you can ask if your people are vaccinated you know I've uh read numerous stories saying that there is no problem requiring employees to get vaccinated that that's you know been fairly common in other situations you know especially medical places who require people to be vaccinated against the flu in in in past years that's common place so if if if you're allowed to require employees to be vaccinated you must be allowed to ask them if they're vaccinated I believe yeah you know what and and William frankly I don't give a I I'm gonna I want to accomplish something here which is to get everybody vaccinated and I think it's highly unlikely that anybody's going to make a test case out of me if I put their names up on a board and I have asked all of the employees individually whether they were willing to get vaccinated and did not hear a no from anybody so I would just like to to show people where the finish line is because I think we're pretty close and uh and encourage everybody do this for the team so so instead of offering $100 you're offering mask removal yes well call me passive aggressive but I personally wrote the part of our policy that says if you are not still vaccinated we would encourage you to wear a mask so if 9/10 of our office is walking around without masks and you're wearing one guess what you know that's pretty strong incentive I agree I know of one employee who has said he does not want to take you know have the vaccine and I've actually got a meeting scheduled with him next week and I've got on the agenda I want to talk about how to manage this issue because I I was frankly taken a back when I I just asked him he didn't refuse to answer but I you know it was a it was a team meeting I said assume everyone's gotten the vaccine at this point and this one person said no just flat out no I don't want to get the vaccine and so I have flagged that to follow up it's obviously a concern at what point do the masks come off Paul are you are you thinking it has to be 100% before you do that or I think 100% is is uh defensible and we've recently implemented Access Control into our shop for the first time in many many years so that we can now no longer hopefully have strangers just wandering around in the shop like we used to so I think that if we can assure the staff that everybody's had their vaccination and that you're in a bubble more or less now the reality is that most of the time most of my workers are not anywhere near somebody else there's 20 30 ft away but a couple of the like the two Engineers sit next to each other and uh I think everybody would just like to be done with the masks and and uh so that's the incentive so what's the argument against removing the masks even if you only have a couple of people well we allow people to remove the mask if you're not near anybody like I'm sitting in my office right now I don't have a mask on and um if we if I go out of the office I put a mask on um but what's the argument I don't know Common Sense well I mean if you if you only have a couple of people who aren't vaccinated and they and you've determine that they are holdouts they don't want to get vaccinated is there an argument to be made that well then that's on them and they're the ones at risk um sure everybody else can take their masks off that's an argument Lauren that's that's why we wrote our policy exactly like we wrote it I could have said it this way once you're fully vaccinated take your mask off instead we just said if you're not then we would encourage you to keep so it kind of puts the onus on the because we do have uh people whether it's Health concern for whatever reason that is some religious concern or whatever that are not going to get vaccinated and we've kind of put it on them like you keep your mask on if you're not going to get everybody else you know it's it's Unwritten but clear well it's also important where they are you know if you're not around other people I think that's that's different than on our Factory floor where we're in the food production business everyone has a mask and a hairnet and gloves so we are fully protecting uh the product that we are you know packaging and and and selling so uh I think it definitely depends on what the job function is and you whether you're in contact with food and in close proximity to others I'd agree with that also just what is the physical plant like on our shop floor we have giant fans blowing air in and air out all the time the the entire air volume turns over every hour and so uh I'm just not as concerned out there if I had everybody in a tiny little cubicle you know shoulder toosh shoulder that would be a different situation sure the other issue that I'm reading about almost every day is the shortage of workers they convenience stores that are paying signing bonuses any of you having uh experiences with that yes yeah okay Stephanie you first what's your situation well the here's I'll start with the good news and that is we are seasonal where our Peak is during pean season because we are we're based on a commodity and so August through the end of February is when our peam processing shelling plant is in high gear and offseason we just have a a a skeleton crew that maintains the machinery and makes you know Keeps the Lights On so to speak so we we have until August to address this but it's a challenge and our candy plant is year round operational and we're already seeing the orders increase dramatically so we we're going to have to skip up so how we're dealing with it a couple ways one is we have hired a professional HR consultant who has extensive experience with Factory workers in the South and so he's helping us put together ideas for how we're going to be effective in recruiting and putting together compensation package so we're looking at potentially raising what we pay and also giving a pathway to mobility within the company that if you are diligent you're a hard worker there there really is a a way that you can advance in the company and we're looking at our benefits package so not just the the hourly pay but what benefits can we offer and we're looking at culture and morale boosting and we really have to figure this out soon because we've got Amazon looming on the horizon 27 miles from our facility Amazon is building a distribution center that will be opening in a year and they'll start recruiting people soon so we need to figure out what's a differentiator working for stues in Ren Georgia and we're also fortunate we're outside of Augusta so we do have a economic Center that has significant population um and the last point I'll raise this a suggestion I got on this show Lauren was hiring persons with disability uh people on the autism spectrum who are particularly adapt at monotonous task so some of the line work could uh be adaptable for them we just are working through some of the the safety issues we need to make sure that if we you know everyone is safe oh and I do have one more point we are looking at upgrading some of our machinery and frankly some of this Machinery will enable us to have a few less uh people on the on the shelling floor so we think can we can um avoid having to hire a few extra people if we get this upgraded shelling Machinery that we're it's called a cracker I've got a question is your shop floor air conditioned not to my knowledge do that it's heavily V ventilated I I don't know I have been in there in peak season because we bought the plant January 29th but obviously we were doing our due diligence and we were touring the facility before we purchased it and I was there during hot months and the temperature was really nice uh the facility dates to 1934 it's had some upgrades obviously along the way there's a there's a couple of rooms that are like the loading docks that I I I think would be very expensive to air condition because there's so much in andout movement with the trucking side of the business so I don't know if all of the rooms are a conditioned but I do think that um certainly some of the rooms that are contained and the candy side is air conditioned I know that it's it's important our shop floor we used to have these giant industrial air conditioners when I moved in the shop was fully air conditioned and the air conditioners are so old that in the 20 years I've been there they've just stopped working so now we've spent Summers without air conditioning and it is brutal um and I would say that it's highly unlikely Amazon's ever going to air condition its Warehouse it might not be as expensive as you think and an excellent way to distinguish yourself from some of these other jobs that are competing for your workers well that's that is a great point I will definitely follow up on that with the plant manager today and find out you know what's the employee Comfort that's one of the reasons why I want to spend a month on site at the facility not only because I I want to get a good understanding of the business side but I want to get a good understanding of the worker side and I do plan on you know all my friends are joking that I'm going to be like Lucy and eth on the candy floor and we actually do have the line where the chocolate goes down and you have to make sure you're putting the toppings on part of what I want to do is actually work and understand what the different jobs are like and and there's there's nothing like actual boots on the ground experience yeah do it do it for a whole day every time I go out and work on the shop floor I walk away with with an enormous level of respect for my guys who just do it all the time yeah it's hard work I happened to run one of our machines for 3 hours uh two days ago and I ended up walking three and a half miles in the course of that wow and yeah just walking back and forth doing the things that that are required to operate and this is a job we're hiring for so it was good insight into you know what why we might want to pay someone plenty of money to do this thing and our HR consultant has been doing that too he's actually rolling up his sleeves and working the line jobs to have a real in-depth understanding of what types of positions we need filled do you know how many positions you're talking about Stephanie during the pecan season we hire in the range of 50 and unfortunately every season we have to hire up a new batch so part of what we're looking to is can we get some of these seasonal workers full-time and transition them over to the candy side so about in the range of 50 during the season and then the management level positions i' I'd have to check the chart our FTE is 34 so let let me ask you about the you you referred to the pay packages uh I think you were talking about the factory workers with Amazon coming I assume they'll be paying $15 an hour how big an impact do you think that's going to have on you well we it will because some of our entry level positions are eight an hour Yik so that's not competitive and now that's probationary period so I'm talking about the absolute like very Rock Bottom get your foot in the door and then you advance beyond the probationary period within a period of weeks and then you start earning slightly more but no we're not we're not competitive with a $15 an hour pay scale at the present time do you think you can be we're running the numbers you you've talked to us about changing your business model you're increasing your prices and aiming for uh to to to sell your product in upscale venues does that that's got to help absolutely but everyone's experiencing this no matter what your industry is the cost of our Goods is increasing the price of sugar is going up I've mentioned that in previous episodes the price of packaging is going up just across the board we're seeing letter after letter from the various vendors that we use for our products our ingredients give us notice that they're having a price increase so we're we're feeling the pressure not only from the ingredients but also from you know trying to be competitive in the marketplace with the salary structure that we put in place who else is looking to hire I am and how's it going uh I would say poorly um I'm hiring for a CNC operator which in our shop has been a highly skilled position our previous operator had a family issue and decided to move to Seattle so he had been getting paid 20 8 bucks an hour with all the overtime he wanted full benefits and he was very good at it and so he leaves and we've been running ads getting responses I would say the rate of responses that are qualified is about 30% of the people I invite to interview we've had something like 65% simply not show up after a scheduled interview wow and uh the people who really seem to want the job and are enthusiastic about it don't have the skill set and the people with the skill set don't seem to actually care about completing the process so we did hire one guy who started a week ago Monday and he quit three hours later why he said you know what this job is going to make me I'm going to need to learn stuff and I just don't feel like learning stuff so see you later that was astonishing so I have three interviews in the next in the next two days and we'll see what do you think's happening with the ones who have the skills and make appointments but aren't showing up do they they have other opportunities I think they're finding another job or one guy yesterday who didn't show up said to me you know I really just wanted my current boss to treat me better and so I I used your interview as a threat and he canceled a half an hour before he supposed to show up and uh I think that I think that one of the things that's going on uh contrasting to maybe 30 years ago is that there's so much more information about how to be a a good boss and run a decent company that it's that people just don't want to jump ship as much that one of the best things for hiring is when the average company in your industry is really poorly run then people will are willing to take the chance but now we have things like this podcast that teach us to be better bosses so my employees aren't going anywhere unless they have a a serious reason like this one guy who quit and I think that's true for most people in most companies they now feel valued and they're not dying to go take a chance on a new job do you think it's the podcast or do you think it's sites like glass door that let everybody know when somebody's got a real problem all of that all of that it's not a it's not a buyer market like it used to be and there is a shortage of skills there's a shortage of people who have the basic skill set of showing up and working and in general I would say that in in given the unemployment situation the last I don't know 9 10 Years everybody who wants a good job has one and they're not ready to jump so easily to something else that they don't they don't know with that position you're talking about Paul obviously you're paying a lot more than minimum wage for a skilled position are you thinking you may have to increase the pay beyond what you've been paying in the past I would be willing to um I mean this is this is something if somebody has the the same skill set as the guy who did it they're starting at 28 bucks an hour with full benefits and that usually works out to when we add in the overtime the equivalent of about $34 $35 an hour that they're in the shop and so you would think that that's enough money to get people uh we'll see William what's going on with you well I I don't know that I have a congruent experience with Paul or Stephanie because we're not doing manufacturing jobs we don't have a warehouse that sort of thing um I know looking and and we are hiring um but we we move at the speed of cash and I'm very hesitant to overextend right now and and then another thing that happened over the the pandemic Lauren is a lot of the things that we do we learned to do more efficiently so I don't know like I know what a case load should be for one of our Consultants or a researcher but but we have to use an overused phrase we have a new normal we can get more done with fewer people so I'm not in a rush to hire but I'm watching it because we're very very busy right now and and again may sound a little contrary to Paul but it yes it's an employees Market but there is an enormous amount of turnover going on right now people are leaving their jobs for a myriad of reasons that we've gone over on the podcast before that I kind of I don't know predicted I guess might be too strong a word would happen and they are happening at least in the sectors we serve so um that means we're busier and busier and that means we're hiring but we're doing it slowly um I think we had three or four new people start in the last week and um we'll probably hold firm for a little bit and see how things develop this month before we make any more moves William would you say that the the basic pipeline that prepares people to go into your industry if you want to call call the call churches an industry is that healthy no I mean are there schools are there people want to go in it are they being prepared because in manufacturing it's really unhealthy um well 15 answers jump into my mind at once um it it has been an aging Workforce so Seminary or Divinity School whatever you want to call it the professional the equivalent to law school for lawyers or med school for doctors that that school the median age for entering students continues to go up on the other hand some of our more Innovative clients are getting people right out of college and kind of opening a a trade school with in their church and so you've got a a young Workforce for more entrylevel jobs that's very well trained the senior level jobs are not so well trained and and maybe more important than anything and I think this is true across every job sector uh there's a crunch right now about to happen we call it the double humped camel so it's basically a a look at how many workers are available by age sector right just pure numbers of Supply demand and as the Baby Boomers continue to retire and they will continue to for a little while there's this giant hump of a camel like there's so many available and they're going away uh a little farther behind them Millennials and genz which are I would say the dominant part of our Workforce Now another big hump in the camel really lots and lots and lots of them people my age 35 to 55 it's where the the valley between the two humps happens so 30 to 55 there's there's frankly just a shortage of births that happened back then and there are a lot of U so so why do I say this as the senior level jobs which is what we tend to help people fill we don't really work a whole lot with entry level or middle management as those senior level jobs open up with Boomers retiring are you really going to hand the keys to a large complex organization over to somebody who's 30 well the answer is no so you're left with looking at well how am I going to find someone who's 43 or four me like if I had a dollar for every client that wants me to find them a new senior pastor who's 43 years old and acts like Jesus but got married and drives a minivan and quit drinking wine like I would be a millionaire just for getting a dollar for every one of those clients do you have a conversation with them about about what you just said in terms of it being utterly illegal to say I want a 43y old I mean I presume it is that that's my understanding of it um well that's part of why people will hire a search consultant you can you can be a little bit more delicate with things than not you can't interview somebody and say how old are you but you can tell me hey in a perfect world if you had to predict who's going to work best what does that look like and I ask the questions um so yeah and and we do have the conversation about I mean I hate to talk about people like this but but just the pure Supply demand of there's a need for experience leaders to take over from retiring senior leaders and there aren't that many experienced leaders out there we're having a similar issue with some of the experience and we've got a pean grader in his 80s and it's a dying skill set so how do we find someone out of college you with a degree in agriculture AGR business who understands grading can it's a really critical skill set what what are you paying in case somebody's listening Stephanie to be determined we're working on on the pay scale right now he comes it's seasonal so it's it's a you know 1099 comes in for a couple months and grades the peans but he's in his 80s and we had to beg him to come back for one more season sounds like a technological fix because the same thing happens with Lumber grading and the computers comess process images so fast now that I think people are building AI systems for this kind of thing wow that's fascinating where you could you could look yeah you should look into it because you know you could have a whole table of peons and the computer could identify every single one and grade them all in a second it's amazing what some of the stuff I've seen yeah we work closely with Georgia pecan grower so I think trade and Industry associations can really be important in trying to find these skilled jobs and that that's just been a great resource 4 Future Farmers of America you know all of these organizations that are do help to create somewhat of a pipeline so we're just about out of time anybody got anything they've learned recently anything you want to share I did learn how to operate this machine that I'm trying to hire someone to uh to run is that why you did it yeah well we're so short-handed there's there's a lot of things that happen at this machine it's from extremely complex tricky operations to one that's really simple which is cutting the cardboard for the boxes we use and I talked to my shop manager I said I know you've said that box cutting is really for idiots so I can do that and uh and it's my first time ever running this this complicated machine and it was really I found it very interesting particularly realizing that I was just at the bottom level of understanding how to use this thing uh but now I can claim I've actually run every single machine in the shop after 36 years well enough to do it for real uh I can cut a cardboard box so I have a learning related to our product launch we have a marketing professional complete amazing whiz at this on our board and I got his advice on how we should do our product launch our new product launch and we're not doing a new Coke where we're changing up our formula or our recipes but we are getting better ingredients and we are taking out High fructus corn syrup a lot of the preservatives and and really having a a better quality better tasting product and and new packaging and so this is kind of our launch coming up with the the National Association confectioners annual candy and snack Expo and we're thinking through we want to do for the product launch and I was thinking of just doing the typical press release and our uh marketing guy had a really good suggestion that make it personal we're a personal brand we we're going for an emotional connection and building Community around the sense of road trips and Nostalgia and so instead of doing your typical press release to the industry trades and you know to just just blanket you know 100 or 200 press releases to all these different media outlets and Hope one to three% of them actually run it we're going to do something a little more personal we're still working on what that looks like but we're going to have something really nicely curated sending some samples and sending a personal letter who are you sending this to well we're working on the list so we want to be really careful so we've got a variety we've got certain media Outlets that really make sense for our product uh we've got some folks who really like on our wish list like I would do backflips of gardening would be interested or Southern Living actually Southern Living has written about stues completely unsolicited from us so they're a target a route magazine uh Road Trippers which runs a website so there's we've got a list of high touch have you thought about podcasters Stephanie podcasters absolutely my thanks to Paul down Stephanie Stucky and William Vander bluman as always thanks for sharing guys wait wait don't leave yet if you have a question or a comment that you'd like the 21 hats owners to address send it to me by replying to your Morning Report or by email at Lauren 21h hats.com that's L RN at 21h hats.com do it now before you forget and don't be afraid to tell Jay what you really think you can take it and if you got something out of this conversation help us reach more business owners tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get get your podcast follow us on Twitter subscribe to the morning report at 21h hats.com this episode was produced by just thubron founder of blank word Productions okay now you can leave thanks for listening everyone [Music]