Landlords and Real Estate and Banks, Oh My!

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the business Advantage TV podcast which I'm almost certain will once again be the 21 hats podcast I know I've said this before but more about that very soon meanwhile I'm your host Lauren Feldman this week Dana White Laura Xander and Jay gz talk real estate Dana recently decided to close one of her hair salons rather than keep dealing with an overly aggressive landlord Laura fearing her landlord in Texas is going to toss her out has decided to buy a building but she hasn't been able to close on the deal because while she's been to six Banks she has yet to find one that will fund the loan even though she already has SBA approval for the loan and Jay wants to take out a mortgage on a building he owns outright just to have some extra cash on hand but he's on his 10th Bank you can't get discouraged Jay tells Laura to which Laura responds come on what do you mean you can't get discouraged you see my face it's called discouragement we sort it all out plus we've got the return of the morning report news quiz even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will if nothing else let owners know they are not alone in facing these challenges this week's lineup features Jay gz whose companies in Chicago include a picture frame business artist frame service and a home furnishing store Jason home Laura Xander who is CEO of Jimmy beans wool a digital version of a neighborhood yarn shop that is based in Reno Nevada and also has a wholesale supplier mat toos in Fort Worth Texas and Dana White who was CEO of paraly Boyd a chain of hair salons based in Detroit the episode is titled landlords in real estate and Banks oh [Music] my let's get started one problem this crisis has uh created is a standoff between business owners who have no revenue or reduced revenue and landlords who still want to get paid for the rent Dana I think you've told us in the past that you you actually closed one of your locations in part because of your uh struggle with your landlord can can you remind us about that sure so I did I closed the Southfield location in July um in part in large part due to the struggle with the landlord I noticed in that Plaza I wasn't the only business who left during that time um the I I don't think the landlord viewed our relationship as a partnership um I think he viewed it as you work for me um and he has several businesses so you know um it wasn't um a conversation even though a conversation was attempted the conversation was okay so how when are you going to pay me and how much I was in a very very aggressive um and debilitating repayment cycle with him that I could not endure um and keep my business so I chose to shut down that location um and we have been in court back and forth we've been he's still trying to get his money yes and and here's the thing he will get his money but what you're not going to do is harass me and be mean and try to send me to jail that's what you're not going to do my attorney's the the landlord's attorney actually tried to issue a bench warrant for my arrest oh for God's sakes yeah so when I took over the space there was inventory that was there and I signed saying yes it was there um but in order for me to renovate the space his management people came and took all that inventory out well he has over 150 tennis he doesn't know so when um I returned what I had they said well where is the stuff and I said' well that's what I had well no in no uh September of 2012 when you took over this is what we had and I said yes but you all remove that so I could renovate and so he the attorney says judge can we issue a bent word for the arrest of Dana White for the two mirrors and two chairs that are missing and she said sir this is a pandemic we're not even picking up criminals we're not even issuing bench warrants for criminals this was over two mirrors and two chairs no this is just all intimidation he knew he wasn't going to get it he just wants to show what a big bad lawyer he is and he's trying to scare you that's what this is all about the judge eventually dropped it because um it's ridiculous and it's it's a play so we're at the point now where we're going to come to a settlement agreement which I will pay I really don't want anything in the way of some of the opportunities I have coming you know down the line um I just want this done how are things at that other location slow well in terms of your relationship with your landlord wonderful so your revenue is is has to be down there you just said it was slow but you've come to an accommodation with that landlord absolutely they are I mean this landlord every time there's a loan or a grant that needs to be that she feels I qualified for she texts me or emails me that's a partner right she's doing what she feels she have to do to keep this tenant in business because there's not a long line of people waiting to rent these spaces and somebody needs to remind the landlords of that really yeah our guy in Texas he immediately was like their office was sending us hey did you know about the PPP did you know about the eidl did you know about this um let us cut your rent in half for the first couple months and then we'll see how it goes Laura you in you inherited that landlord when you bought uh the yarn supplier meline Tosh there late last year right that's who you're talking about I did yes but it sounds like you developed a pretty good relationship is that right yeah yeah I think so I mean yes he was yeah some being the operative word think she thinks so yes and no I mean there were you know he had actually never been he owns a ton of property um in the Fort Worth area and as it turns out he had never been to this operation before to to this space um and they had been in this space for I don't know eight years 10 years so he didn't know what they had been doing um and didn't know about all of the different changes that they had made to his building you know i' had never gotten approval for any of those changes and so we do have a good relationship he stops by every time I'm in town and we talk a little bit um but he you know he got very involved I mean he started coming in every other day he would come in early in the morning he'd come in not you know when I was not there um you know checking in on the staff and you know really checking in on his building because it had been changed a lot you know and so all of a sudden um he wanted to make sure that his building was okay so we are going to leave there I mean the lease ends at the end of December and he was really good he said you know we'll give you half off of rent for I think it was April and May um but and the lease originally was supposed to end at the end of J I think at the 1 of August he's like we'll give you half off but only if you extend the lease until December 31st and I'm like okay I mean that seemed fair and that made sense you know for him not to try to look for new tenants at the end of the year but I don't think he's going to renew our lease at the end of December so we're kind of scrambling right now but that's unrelated to you know the pandemic or anything else well yes and no I mean because of the pandemic he's going to have a harder time finding a new tenant so it's not totally unrelated uh I don't know about that um we ended up letting the space they had been leasing four different units and so we gave up we gave one of the units back to him in June because we just didn't need that space um and he had somebody interested I mean he's already filled it you know he filled it last month um and he already the reason he started coming to us is because he had somebody who was interested in the space that we're in now which now expires at the end of December so he's got people lined up okay good for him yeah I know good for him so one question this raises is how great would it be if you owned your own location Jay you've been in that position for quite some time how did that come to be um 23 years ago I was a tenant and the neighborhood was getting hotter and hotter and the block was getting hotter and hotter and when I moved in in 1978 it was basically in an abandoned factory district um I was paying a dollar a square foot for rent I was paying 200 bucks for you know 2,000 ft or something so um over the next 20 years the neighborhood became it was turning into a hot block so I recognized I was going to get pushed off the block so a building came up for sale next door and I decided I needed to buy it as a placeholder just for when that happened so I got an SBA loan which is one of the greatest things the government does and I put down 10% and I bought the building and then luckily the building next door came up for sale two years later and I bought that building again an SBA loan and it is clearly one of the critical pieces to my survival and um into my net worth and I can't tell you I was smart enough or had someone whispering in my ear hey Jay you better buy some buildings I did it out of necessity but now I tell people probably there certainly are exceptions to this you are probably better off buying a building especially if you're in retail where people are coming to if you're in an office that doesn't matter where you're at maybe not as important but it's a critical piece to my stability at this point um I own uh three buildings and uh and a parking lot and it gives me a lot more stability as things go bad how hard was it for you to afford it I came up with 10% of uh I don't remember what it was 500 it wasn't that much money the part that did sweat was I the building was I bought it for land value the building was just falling down this roof was was was caving in there was no heating no it was it was a warehouse I figured I'd put a couple $1,000 in to fix it up which of course turned into 600,000 and I was totally stretched out and totally stressed out and uh was clearly one of the most difficult periods in my business it was extremely painful but it made a it it was a game changer how long was it painful I mean are you talking like you know 12-hour labor painful or are you talking this was 2 years I would say a couple it was painful for a year or two until I finally there's multiple layers of pain there's also the Jay's nuts and got into a business he knew nothing about oh we used to sell plants there's no home there's no plant stores around here so I opened up a store a sell it was called Jason Home and Garden we opened up a store to sell plants and my home store was still the next it was across the street and like the only problem was I knew nothing about plants so I opened up this store I hired people that I thought knew what they were doing and uh it was uh it was a couple years of pain this is what I've done for 42 years I get in the stuff over my head I choke on it and I do figure it out eventually it takes me a year or two but I I did figure it out but I'm not saying this is the way to do business it's just the way is there like a moment where you're just like okay the pain is over like you know I mean Marathon at least you know where the finish line is well this is exactly a moment I had I the woman that runs the store's father is an architect and I had a relationship with them you know he always comes to our openings and stuff and I walked up to him during our opening for the home for the garden store and I was absolutely at the end of my rope and I said to him I'm completely freaked out I spent four $500,000 more than thought um I you know and I went through the whole thing and he started laughing and I walked away and I said Caroline what's with that she goes Jay you don't understand you're from a different culture than my father's not used to people being that honest and he just didn't know what to say if it was my uncle Irving he would have put his hand around my AR my shoulder and said Jay it always costs more when you build these buildings don't worry about it you're going to be really glad you bought it in the long term so I am your Uncle Jay and I'm telling you it's okay Laura tell us where do you stand you you're you have to leave your current location what are you doing um well we're trying to buy a building uh so we put an offer in oh June July I think we found a place um oh it must have been the beginning of July um spent about two months working with the bank that we always use the bank you always use in Nevada yeah well it's US Bank so it's a US B but yeah Big Bank um so got down to the point got down to August 14th and we were supposed to I think we were supposed to close at this point like at the end of August no early September so we're about 30 days we're just a couple days away from the due diligence period closing and the loan officer sends a note and says sorry you know if this went I think I just reread it and he said this went like four levels above what it normally needs to go for approval and with Co and with your industry being retail and e-commerce we're putting in you know new standards and you don't meet the new standards mine TSH is not a retail business you mean you you sell to retailers is that the the issue um it's got It's a part I mean 30% of the business is retail oh is that right no let me cut to the chase they all lie they don't want to deal with small business end of the story US Bank doesn't need you they don't need me they don't need small business they got big business to deal with and you started at the wrong bank and a smaller Bank needs our business and it's that's I've been through this 10 times these big Banks always tell you no problem we want to do this we're excited they come out with their loan officers you think you're doing and then and then all of a sudden out of the clear blue somebody somewhere back in Ohio or Toledo somewhere decides that in my case I was with the big bank and they literally the day before I was supposed to close told me they couldn't give me the money and I I I one of my friends luckily had a credit line he lent me money till I could change Banks I asked the banker a year later what was he called me because he had already changed Banks he said well you know how it goes I go no tell me he said the new guy didn't like retail that was the entire explanation the new guy didn't like retail that was the whole explanation so I'm telling you the big Banks don't need you Dana you're listening to all this I'm wondering as you think about one day opening uh another location are you thinking you want to or you thinking you want to deal with another landlord I'm thinking I want to deal with another landlord um eventually by but you know own the buildings put pely boids in those buildings um but you know everything is so different now you know this conversation eight months ago or a year ago it everything is just so different and I think because of Co yes yes because of covid um and so buying it's just not on my radar right now but to be fair to what you're doing you might need a hight trffic downt to downtown is location and that kind of real estate in a smaller thing might not exist so for you if you want to be on a busy street in a bigger building that's not the kind of building you can buy so for you it might not make any sense to buy a building yeah for me it I don't I don't believe it does eventually maybe but you know I'd like to take all that I've learned in dealing with landlords and put that to use and then maybe eventually become one for per Le boy be the best landlord I've ever had right it's myself plus there's economic gains to being your own landlord you know how you pay yourself and you know how you leverage that uh a big part of it for us is um I had a an agent who broke it down for me in the leasing versus buying because now we have two very in some ways very different kinds of businesses the business in Texas is manufacturing so we need to change the SP you know we need to put a hundred to $200,000 into the space so that we can use it to manufacture right so we've got to get Vents and you know plumbing and this and that whereas the other business is distribution we just need pallet racks um and so you know we can really be anywhere so the other one is a little more dependent we need to put more investment in um Doug you know feels really strongly and I agree you know After experiencing the landlord nice guy um but you know being in the building all the time he threatened to kick us out one day because you know somebody didn't they had the fans turned the wrong way or something um and it was just a light threat but kind of being under that umbrella of being constantly threatened uh if we can be our own masters I think that that is really appealing plus if we need to invest 100 or 200 Grand to make this space into something that's usable like why do that in somebody else's building if possible that said we may not be able to get a loan I mean I'm on Bank six and I've had it's been one large bank and then five small Banks what are they telling you uh it's just a slow slow process so I've got the One bank that I'm really that I've invested a lot of energy in it's a local Texas Bank um and I'm supposed to find out today it's at the it's at oh what do they call it um convergence no concurrence so it's the last two guys you know so are you trying to get an SBA loan do they do do they do a lot of SBA Loans yes and the SBA this the SBA um agent is who recommended this Bank um and the SBA has already given us approval so we have approval from the SBA so I've got one Bank in Nevada who said you know we would love to do it but because it's in Texas we can't after we spent you know after I spent two weeks kind of giving all the documentation going through I can't tell you how many times I've been through stuff with them where they string you along for a month or two and then all of a sudden they tell you something that my kid went for a mortgage at the same big bank I said you're wasting your time he does development he he finally after five weeks they said yeah we can't give you the mortgage because you make your money on capital gains and it's like why couldn't you told me that five weeks they didn't know that when he started I mean it's unbelievable so this is what I've learned they're salespeople that's what they are they're salese and they go back to the underwriters who are in some room somewhere with no windows figuring out whatever they do with their spreadsheets and then they bury you and and yeah but now I'm on a timeline because our lease is up December 31st and I've gotta you know we can't just move I mean we need to build it's going to take us probably a month um your landlord can't throw you out overnight if you to go back to him and say listen sorry but we can't move till March 1st he's going to have to go along with you cuz what is the options for him go get a court US yeah so I've already I've already planted that seed and I'm like we may need another month we may need another month um so it's not even just with buying property though it's it's even like I have a girlfriend who's trying to open a second location she's been trying to get a loan and they you know they told her to put her house up they've told her to do all of these things all of these hoops and this has been going on for over a year wow and again there's nothing you know oh well Dana you may not know this or you know there's some things we don't know no it's this guy sitting in an office who doesn't like retail big bank so no it's a cdfi it's a non-traditional lender and the reason why they're more cautious than they were when I initially went through them is because some of the businesses that went through them prior to her but after me didn't do well with their money meaning they would submit money submit their final budget submit to get a draw and then use that money for something else other than what they told other than the invoice they presented what kind of money is she looking for I think $100,000 two two y two to 300,000 and did she borrow against her house no I don't think so okay I I'm just telling you I'm here to say from my perspective only I've always borrowed against my house like I it's not the bank's responsibility to be my partner like I've always been Allin and I use the equity in my house and the fact of the matter is to be fair to Banks they make a tiny little percentage on these loans they can't afford for 10% of the loans to go bad they go out of business so I understand that they need security but that's what's making me crazy Jay is that we have enough equity in the homes we have enough cash in the bank like we have enough for it we just we get alone it's also a property it's four acres you know so we're being told that the land wow good God is this exhausting yeah Jay have you been in a situation like Laura where you had approval from the SBA but couldn't get a bank to make the loan no that's never happened I've hit three SBA Loans and they all went through and everybody says oh it's so much it really wasn't bad it was fine can you explain it why is Laura having a problem with it there's more behind this story there's something going on at the bank and God knows what and they all they're never honest um they they I here I'm in the middle of trying to get a mortgage for my building with no mortgage on it and I'm on my 10th bank and I believe I've got the bank ready to do it and I think I will but it's like dating you got to date 10 girls or boys before you find the right boyfriend or girlfriend to marry they're these Banks don't want to take risk a lot of them yeah and I was going to say the other thing the other factor that we've got going here is that in the last two years we've you know acquired three brands um and so we've invested and we did a bunch of investment in technology so our books for the last two years don't look great there you go that doesn't surprise me neither I've done the same thing so that's the answer they're doing all these ADB backs they can't all they want to do is and in my case I have this is a zero risk loan I have more than enough assets to cover these loans I have enough life insurance to cover these loans and all they do is they want to check the one box do they have the cash flow to pay for this loan that's all I don't care if you're worth a $100 million it's shocking all they want to know is you have the cash flow so it doesn't surprise me that your books don't look great for the last couple years because this is the same issue I'm having they they want they just want to see nothing but but you know profits Galore so here's my question at what point do you throw in the towel at what point do you decide this is not meant to be yeah I don't believe in that meant to be thing I absolutely do not buy a meant to be there is a bank that is looking for business right now that would love to do your loan and you have to find that bank Laura do you have the right location are you excited about what you found well I am but I guess where we got scared or I start to wonder um you know if I needed Just Surrender and maybe this isn't meant to be is because then we got thrown into a phase 2 Environmental so the due diligence period has actually taken two months now instead of just a month we've had to push it back twice okay been through that and I can tell you part of real estate phase two part of real estate no big deal they find it they find an oil tank that was down there they get a bulldozzer they take the oil tank out they fill it in not a big deal um I'm telling you I've been through the I've been through my my um the parking lot I bought um there was something in it and my lawyer said who is my brother-in-law you can't buy it it would have put me out of business I called my friend and real estate go please there's stuff in all the dirt in Chicago you're not putting a well on there's not a problem I'm this is just real estate stuff face are normal business don't maybe it's meant to be because it is pushing it forward so that we can get the loan that we need I mean that's stop what this meant to be you're in control of your destiny you are in control of your destiny Laura you mentioned the equity in your home um so you've obviously made the decision that you're you're willing to to borrow against your home was that a tough decision um you know to be honest I don't think they asked us that they just I mean we have to give all of our personal financial information so we gave them all of that stuffs um but you're signed personally you're gonna be signing personally we okay yeah I think um we must have made that decision I mean that's I honestly I leave that to Doug because he's so much smarter financially than I am um but I think that when we were originally going to do the loan to buy the business we were going to have to do the same thing yeah so banks are not Venture capitalists they don't Venture capitalists make a zillion dollars when the deals go well Banks make a little tiny percentage they're not they're not in the business of sharing risk with you so I get it I just wish they'd be upfront when you show up you say yeah you know what don't waste your time with us we're not going to do it no they drag you through four weeks and and then then then they tell you it's i' like I said I've been through this more than once it's ridiculous all right you're getting the loan today that's my prediction and I say that not because of some Spirit out there you got sent to this bank by the SBA people that's an excellent reference I believe they're gonna give you the loan because yeah no I mean I've gone I've met the presidents um the one of the presidents came and picked me up at the airport wow you know oh yeah no I mean I'm you know me I mean I took my best I took my only nice outfit and wore it and you know show up and meet everybody there and tell them my story they all watched my TED Talk apparently they are all like in love and um so okay you're probably getting the loan that's my answer and if not Jay's on 10 Banks you're only on six laori right exactly and every time you go through this you get a little smarter so now when I interview the banks I know the right questions they ask and I'm brutal to them I say so what's the story like for instance here's something I didn't know so I've got this new bank who my kid uses for his real estate stuff and they're largely a real estate lending bank and he told me in this in talking to him listen we really would like to get this loan because since it's owner occupied we can put it on the books as a business loan we get criticized for being too real estate heavy in our Landing so this is good for them and that was good to know I would have never I I would have never known that I would have never figured that out so this is good for them and they're looking forward to doing this loan because it'll help their portfolio balance so um I do believe I'm going to get it from them and I got two others that are interested so it's just you can't get this discouraged it's about and of the yeah come on what do you mean you can't get discouraged like you've never gotten discouraged I say never watch this see my face it's called discouragement no stop discouragement entrepreneurs can't have discouragement we we dig in and we forge on and we get the job done that's what you're gonna do and no more meant to be routine that's for that's not for entrepreneurs there's no meant to be no that's that's like saying I'm sorry but that's like saying that you can't be scared I can be discouraged you got save the podcast that we have on psychology we'll save it for that one but I'm telling you if this one doesn't work you go back to the SBA people and you say okay give me a different one and they'll find well I got three other ones that are there you go there you go all right we're going to stay on top of this Laura we're going to keep track of this we we'll come back to this topic but guess what back by unpopular demand I have a Morning Report quiz for you guys today as you may recall these are questions taken from our daily email newsletter which brings together all the news a business owner needs to read first thing every morning you can subscribe at 21h hats.com you guys ready for the first question I'll take that as a yes early this week we highlighted a news item about a special travel adventure for those getting restless during the pandemic oh the flights to Nowhere Laura you jumping the gun too quickly yes come on I got things to do look at what a winner you are she's just a winner let's go let's go well let me finish the question next time and just to finish this one so our listeners can know what you're talking about nipon Airways sold 300 tickets for a special Hawaiian resort themed flight and a Taiwanese Airline sold 309 tickets for a special Hello Kitty themed flight the question was supposed to be where did these flights go Laura the answer was nowhere they took off and returned to the same airport yeah sorry that's okay uh question number two as usual we had a few items this week that mentioned a Amazon no one noted that Amazon has been limiting the ability of rival companies companies with products that rival Amazon products uh with uh to to advertise on amazon.com in other words the Rival products don't get positioned as well on uh amazon.com as Amazon products here's the question what percent of all product searches occur on amazon.com 42% not a bad guess 70% Dana says 70 Laura yeah I'd go 82 actually it's 50% um I actually thought it would be higher too uh but still a lot number three John Mackey the founder and CEO of Whole Foods likes to promote what he calls conscious capitalism his stated goal is to get businesses to elevate Humanity by recognizing that there are more important things than profits here's the question remind me again which practitioner of conscious capitalism did John Mackey sell Whole Foods toos ding Jeff Bezos that's right ding ding ding yeah no shame profit is not important to the people who profit the most just exact doesn't matter number four Instagram is now 10 years old our item this week noted that the social network was the first platform to understand that for all of us our most important relationship is with a Jeff Bezos B our landlord or C our phone this is an easy one for Jay see our phone I don't even know what you're saying what's Instagram you have a terrific Instagram feed for Jason home you should pay attention to it yes yes you should check it out sometime um the telegraph is the answer finally last question we had item this week about the decline and fall of magic leap a startup that raised $3.5 billion and a lot of hype to create an augmented reality headset in 2012 some of that hype was generated by a Ted X talk that was titled the synthesis of imagination the question is that talk consisted entirely of the CEO a using a magic leap headset to guide him while making repairs to a car engine using a magic leap headset to guide him while performing surgery or the CEO wordlessly danced around in a space suit alongside several people in furry monster outfits Laura do you know the answer to this one I don't a b or c I don't want to know the answer to this one say b or c car engines a performing surgery B dancing with people in monster outfits C it was of course see wait you got you said it was three and half billion dollars that's right okay buy a building we can't get alone to go by some buildings to employ people and help Commerce and make people happy but this guy got3 half billion dollars to dance around for an idea for extra credit tell me which publication that I used to work for wrote a cover story about this company that included this paragraph magic leaps Innovation isn't just a high Tech display It's A disruption machine this technology could affect every business that uses screens or computers and many that don't can you hear my eye roll the the whole goal of this quiz is to get you to groan Jay I'm I think I'm almost there you're there I can I can hear your mission accomplished let me finish I don't want you to finish Inc magazine Jay I'm finishing it's my podcast H for the moment it is there's the gro I got it it could kill the $120 billion market for flat panel displays and sh take the1 trillion Global consumer electronics business to its core the applications are profound throw out your PC your laptop and your mobile phone because the computing power you need will be in your glasses oh my gosh well that's definitely not the New York Times correct ink magazine no Forbes it was Forbes you got it Dana Forbes wow that was four years ago have any of you thrown out your laptops or mobile phones yet not at all not yet wow but see this is what's so discouraged in I know you don't like the word but here you've got Laura you've got Jay even myself then you have companies that get on stage in a little outfit and jump around and can raise billions of dollars you've got a woman who cannot even have the box to draw blood at home it's just a really good idea and she can have you know billions of dollars and former General you're talking about Theos and and she is going on trial soon I think they're good storytellers and good salesmen but it's the media who are writing all I mean sorry Lauren but yeah um you have to have people who are willing to be sold to and so these are these great romantic exciting stories that hype everybody up well let me just say you're you're right the media did fall for that but only after a whole slew of investors fell for it so it's not just the media no you're totally right but I just I think through like ink magazine covers over the last 10 years years she was one of them has anybody done a study to see how many of the people on the covers are still in business hey when I was at magazine we put Jay goz on the cover so I'm still in business I'm the one that's still in business exactly there you go Evergreen businesses when you have an investor why are they investing in businesses they don't know work no I can tell you the answer this is the simple answer and I believe this is still true only one out of seven Venture Capital deals work but when they work they really work and they make gazillion dollars six times out of seven they don't work but the the characteristics you have to have to be that one business it seems to when you've got a a business like Jimmy Bean wool it works it's been working it's it's a proven it's it's it's like a car you turn it on there you go right it's not it's not gonna be it's not gonna turn into a billion dollar company that's the problem it's not going to make an investor Rich right right so so it gets back to this isn't the world we live in that's the other world and it's just it is what it is number one rule of Entrepreneurship it is what it is and that's what that is so all we can do be will make somebody Rich because the Market's too small and it's a well it's G to make its owners Rich even if it's an international market no you need a new you need a disruptive new technology that the million there's that because she's almost in the same business what percent you what though we have two players in our industry that both raised 60 million bucks one of them got bought for I don't know 250 million and the other one and then that got shut down you know is still out it's not hundreds of millions or billions the point is she's in the same business I'm in it's very small percentage of people actually go into a custom picture frame shop and very few people knit their own stuff it's not a mass Market kind of thing and as a result the Market's limited all we can do is go check out other Banks and get the damn loan so we own a building so in 20 years your son can say to me hey Uncle Jay thank you so much because of you look at the new Porsche convertible I bought that's what we're talking about buying the building and in 20 years your kids's going to be rich boom guys we've done it again we've completed our 34th straight podcast without a workplace injury nice you don't know that you don't know that unless you count the injury to Jay's psyche no I'm actually good I'm good because I feel like even though Laura pretends like she's not listening to me she's listening to me stop being discouraged go get the job done I can be discouraged and get the job done my thanks to Jay goz Dana White and Laura Xander thanks for listening everybody this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions remember we started the 21 hats podcast to help business owners feel a little less isolated to let them know they aren't the only ones fighting these battles if you got something out of this conversation please help us reach more people tell a friend Subs subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter at 21h hats and let me know if you have a question or a comment or a topic you'd like us to cover my email address is L Feldman 21h hats.com see you next time [Music]