Lessons from the Field - Communicating Ownership

Welcome back to another episode of Owners at Work. I'm Mike Palmeri, project coordinator at the Ohio Employee Ownership Center. This week, we have another episode that deals with communicating your ESOP as well as building an ownership culture. If you recall, we ran a similar episode a few weeks back where we interviewed Deanna Columbo from Butler Till. And in this episode, we're going to be speaking with Via Smith, who is an HR generalist and chairs the communication committee at Palmer Donovan, which is a 100% employee owned company based in Ohio, but which has locations in several other states. So Bean has been with the company for about 14 years, and over the course of that time has built up a great deal of experience. And I can say wisdom regarding how to build an ownership culture. It's wisdom that, as always, Bina generously shares on this episode. The discussion with Via includes a bunch of different topic areas, but some of the highlights is how to build an ownership culture at a company with multiple locations and which has a complex production process. Another is general principles for approaching communication around your ESOP. Success and failures uh that Bina's experienced around doing different ESOP events or communication strategies, and then finally, practical ideas that can be used at other employee owned companies. While this episode is one of our shorter ones, it's absolutely full of useful information for anyone thinking about building an ownership culture, whether your company be a mature ESOP or one that was just formed. OK. Let's hop into our interview with Dea Smith, HR generalist and communication Committee chair at Palmer Donovan. All right, well, welcome to the podcast, Mina. Thank you for having me here. I'm really honored to be here. Yeah, great. We're really uh glad to have you, uh, you know, folks who attend some of our events and uh online stuff as well. uh Bea's, uh, uh, a go to person, uh, in a lot of those things when we have conversations about culture. So I thought that there's nothing better than, than to get you on the podcast and talk to you a little bit, so we really, uh, you know, appreciate you coming out. Absolutely. Happy to share. All right. So, before we get started, I wanna, you know, uh, we've been talking with you for years, but, uh, you know, I wanted to kinda get a sense of, so your formal title is HR generalist. So what the heck is an HR generalist? Can you tell us a little bit about that? Absolutely, yeah, it can mean different things in different places, you know, depending on uh how big an HR team is or how big a company is, but uh for me here at PD um I handle general HR stuff, so policies, employee questions, I manage all of our benefits. Programs from insurance 401k as well as our ESOP. OK, great, great, thanks. You know, as someone who's not a, who's a, who's a consummate generalist uh in the world of employee ownership, it's always interesting to see how other folks term it what a generalist does. Um, so tell us a little bit about how you became an HR generalist, how you came to work at, at uh Palmer Donovan and And how you came to be so actively involved in the education and training aspects of your ESOP. Absolutely. I actually graduated with a degree in English from Ohio Dominican University and uh had the privilege of meeting our former CEO, um, Ron Calhoun, at my college job. I worked at a golf course, um, so I, I met Ron and got, uh, connected to Palmer Donovan and started here in, uh, November of 2008. I actually just celebrated my 4 year anniversary. I didn't get into HR until 2013, uh, when there was an opportunity to move into that, but I had gotten involved with the ESOP committee prior to that. Probably in 2009 or 2010, uh, there was another person on our communications committee who wanted to roll off, and if you want to roll off, you had to find a replacement. Uh, so, I was young and, you know, eager to do things and Uh, wanting, you know, to learn and grow. And so I, you know, jumped at the opportunity to get involved because I got really excited by the whole ESOP idea. I had never heard of that before coming to Palmer Donovan, and I just really liked, uh, how it felt and feeling like you're, you're part of something bigger and what you do matters. So, I, I, you know, jumped in to join the, the ESOP committee and Then, uh, eventually, I made too many suggestions about how I thought my boss, Sean should run the committee and got myself the chair spot um in 2014. So, so have you ever looked back at that, how it started and said, you know, maybe I should have uh not volunteered so much or not had so much to say. Sometimes I do, yeah. When it gets a little overwhelming, I'm like, why did I do that? But I'm just one where whether you asked for my opinion or not, you're probably gonna get it. So, uh that is uh that's how I got there. So it's kind of interesting that you have that model where if you want to roll off the committee, you got to find a replacement. Is that still kind of how you do things now and is that kind of method created any issues or is it generally worked well for you? Um, it And create some issues. I'm a little more selective, I guess now that I lead it, um, I've, you know, had some people roll off and their replacement is not really the ideal person to be on the committee. So I usually, if I know someone is ready to roll off because we don't have actual like terms when you're on it, you just, you join and you kind of stay as long as you want. We've got people who have been on the committee since it started in, you know, 2007. Um, but then you've got, you know, newer people coming on and off depending on what their interests are. But when they express that, uh, desire to, to roll off the committee, then I will usually talk to, um, a manager at their location. We have, uh, representatives for every one of our Facilities on the communications committee so that everybody gets represented. So I'll usually reach out to a manager and say, like, do you have anyone on your team who is good at communicating, who, you know, wants more, because I want this to be an opportunity for these ambassadors, we call them, to learn and grow and develop themselves. And we've actually had a lot of people who were on the committee who've gotten promoted. Um, and so I see this as an opportunity to develop leadership skills because they're really in charge of the ESOP communications for their location. So they, you know, they're asked to connect with all of our new hires. They're asked to communicate activities that we have going on. So they're, they're the point. Context. So it's an opportunity to lead without a title, um, and hopefully is that good training ground for them, you know, to grow. So, I kind of want to be more selective and, and talk to managers, who do they see on their team that maybe this could be good for, but also someone who's going to be um involved and participate and, you know, really run with it. Yeah, and that's a great idea so often folks who get asked or get offered the opportunity to be on a committee, it's, it's presented in a way, yeah, it's kind of a drag, you know, but I think kind of putting it out there as an opportunity for them to as part of their kind of job description and opportunities to grow within that job and hopefully grow up in the organization. Um, I think that's a really interesting and, and great way to do it, right? So it makes being on that committee, you know, a little bit perhaps more enticing. Have you found it to, to have that kind of effect, uh, with people that, that joined the committee? Yes, I think so. I mean, we've been working on sort of reframing it for, for a year or two now, um, because I, I would, I would get those people who are like, you know, this is just, um, you know, they're kind of stuck doing it. They got voluntold or, you know, to be on the committee. And, um, you know, I don't want it to be perceived that way. So, I've worked with our training and development specialists and, you know, even our CEO and, and our VP of HR to talk to, come and actually to a meeting, talk to the committee about how important their role is. It's more than just like organizing events. It's really leading that, like, ownership culture at the company, and that that is a vital role for them, um, and to also take advantage of that opportunity to grow and develop personally as well. I've also started reaching out to anyone who manages an ESOP ambassador, uh, prior to performance reviews, and let them know like, you should be including this when you're evaluating their performance for the last year. You know, this is something outside of their job description that they are doing, um, and please reach out to me if you'd like to talk in more detail about how they're doing and, you know, on the committee and what my feedback would be about, uh, their performance on, on the committee. Yeah, all fantastic ideas. So, so as you've kind of been a part of the committee and become the leader of the committee, what are, what have been some of your biggest challenges or maybe frustrations, uh, with both developing a structure for how to do the work of the committee but also in getting your fellow employee owners to think and act like owners? Yeah, we've definitely had our challenges, as I'm sure everyone does. Um, I would say one of the biggest is just the size and complexity of our business. Uh, so we have 8 facilities in 4 states. We have salespeople in even more states. We have truck drivers on the road every day. We've got, you know, production and warehousing, you know, you've got people. Computers, people who work remotely from home. So, that was even prior to the pandemic. So trying to be able to connect to all of those people and provide them education and resources and that culture, um, has been a really big challenge for us. Also, just the format of whatever we're doing, you know, how You do that. So, we try to have an activity every month, even if it's just a minor like this month, we're doing a thankful for ESOP potluck. Now, that doesn't necessarily include people who work remotely or people who are, you know, in sales or or driving a truck. So we try to do a variety of things and find ways for everyone to get involved, you know, as we can. Um, but, you know, when we're doing educational activities, that's difficult too, you know, we can put together a video, which works great for people who sit at a desk, um, but that's harder to provide to people who are working in our, on our production floor, or truck drivers who are, you know, driving a truck every day. So, You know, in-person meetings tend to be more engaging, because that's the other downside of the video. You're just sort of spewing information as opposed to, you know, getting questions or really engaging the employee in the information. But again, in person is, is a challenge too, with how spread out we are, and, um, so we try to do A lot of different things. So really just spread it around and connect it to things we already do. So, um, you know, we have a quality meeting for our production floor once a week. So our ESOP ambassador at that location will, will talk about what's going on. From the ESOP perspective, um, or what activities we have going on. Um, you know, we have a monthly newsletter, uh, we have video screens at every location that will pop up messaging with a QR code so they can scan it and look for more information. We still print out old school flyers and post those up by the water fountain and the, you know, the bathroom and things like that. So really just trying all the tactics to try to reach people where they are and how they like to consume information. Uh, we also rolled out a, a texting platform this year, um, to be able to mostly just quick messages to employees, um, you know, for example, open enrollments coming up, you know, don't miss it. Uh, but I've also taken advantage of that to text out our ESOP newsletter. So we're doing that once a month, they get it by their email, but, you know, again, some of those frontline employees um aren't checking it all the time. So, send a quick text message on the first of the month, you know, your ESOP newsletters in your inbox, or you can click here and, and review it. So, just trying to reach people where they are and how they want to consume information. Yeah, I think that's, that's a great advice too. People often ask me, you know, should I do this or should I do that? And my response is usually yes, right? So it's, it's really is a, a shotgun approach in a sense, right? You don't wanna be, you wanna be kind of thoughtful about how you do that, right? You don't wanna just throw stuff out, right, for the sake of throwing it out, but don't expect that any single or even a small number of avenues are gonna be, you know, enough. You know, especially when you have a complex business like yours. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I guess I'm gonna maybe kind of put you on the spot a little bit if you're willing to share maybe one thing that you did as a committee that was just an utter and complete flop that, you know, man, we're never gonna do that again. Um, well, during our employee ownership month, uh, just, uh, here this year, we have a platform called Yammer, although I think Microsoft is rebranding it Viva Engage, um, but it's an online, it's kind of like Facebook for Business, so people can post things. And we try to utilize that since it's online and it's similar to something, you know, people are used to and it's a way to just have a little more fun. Uh, so, you know, part of what we put out for the month was, you know, share your favorite thing about being an employee owner and, you know, hashtaglove employee ownership or something like that. We got none, no one posted. Um, so we've really struggled to get people to utilize that. It's, it's this funny like conundrum because people don't want to get on it during work because then they don't want to be perceived as like not working, but it's also important because it helps just build that, that camaraderie and that culture and Um, you know, and sharing things. And so, um, it was unfortunate, but yeah, not, I don't think we had a single person post, and shame on me, I should have posted, not that I think anyone would do it just because I did. But, you know, I was really hoping, you know, we'd get some interesting things that people would share about either what they're doing to make the ESOP, uh, better, you know, in their own job or what they love about employee ownership. Um, but that, that did not work out for us. Yeah, but I'm sorry if, you know, if I did put you on the spot by that question, but one of the things I, I always try to impress on folks, it's OK to try something and have it fail. You shouldn't put too much weight or emphasis on that, just try to learn from it, right? From Yeah, actually you had, you had kind of asked, you know, in preparation if I had any advice, and that's one of the things I was gonna say is, you know, don't be afraid to try things, you know, take Risks, try new things, evaluate it, see how it went, you know, decide if you're gonna do that going forward, and we try to work that into our monthly, uh, communications committee meetings. We'll evaluate what we did last month, get some feedback, how did it go, you know, what did people think? Is this something we should do again or not? And what's funny is sometimes it's a huge hit at one location and a flop at another. You know, we did like a school drive in August collecting school supplies. Uh, for local schools, and my one location where they participate in nothing, they're just like, they don't even do potlucks, like, they're just this, they don't care, which is fine, you know, I've accepted that, um, but they got really into it and took a whole box of stuff to, uh, one of our employees, his wife is a teacher. And I was just shocked that they loved it. And so we're definitely gonna do it again next year, but there were other locations where they weren't as Excited about it, but that's OK. Um, you know, different people respond to different things. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So in, in your time on the committee and, and kind of run on the committee, what are, what have been some of the biggest successes that you want to kind of toot your horn? Yeah, this really worked well for us. Um, I have to say our ESOP newsletter, maybe I'm biased because it's kind of my baby and I've always, um, you know, really enjoyed putting that together and coming up with things that You know, I think would be beneficial for employees to learn. Um, but we had done it quarterly for a very long time, and now we've switched, we started last year doing that on a monthly basis, and part of that was because, well, because of COVID and being even more spread out, more people working from home, but wanting to connect with our employees on a more regular basis, you know, every month we're, we're communicating what's going on. We, you know, send it out by email, like I said, by text message and Our communication TVs. Another item is, is our employee owner of the Year award. That's one thing I really love. We've been doing that for about 7 or 8 years, and so we open it up to every employee to vote, um, so, and nominate. So they will nominate someone that they think, you know, really lives our core values. Uh, lives, you know, our company principles, that sort of thing, and, and write up why they think this person should be recognized. Um, and then we post that for all employees to see, um, with a little blurb about them, and then every employee in the company has the opportunity to vote and we recognize a winner, um, at our annual shareholders meeting. Um, each year, and it's just really special. I love, that's one of my favorite things, is reading all of the entries about, you know, people recognizing their co-workers for the things that they do every day. And, you know, this year, we had, you know, a frontline warehouse employee win, and I love that too, because people see that, you know, it's not, we're not talking about managers or, or anything like that. It's, you know, the people just doing the Work every day. One other thing on that is during that annual shareholders meeting, that's one of my other big wins that I'm, um, pretty proud of is that we used to do that at like 5:30 on, you know, a Thursday night or something, and it would just be broadcast, like audio, and no one would participate. You know, we've got 500 and some employees and we'd have like 10 log in to listen, because the timing wasn't great. Um, you know, we're in a couple different time zones and, you know, people have stuff going on after work. So I finally convinced the management team to move that to noon, uh, and we had lunch and we had our, you know, board of directors there so people could meet them, and we, you know, still, still being separated, we had to broadcast it, but we broadcast video live to all of our locations, you know, put it up in the conference room, had food for every location and uh we're able to include them so that I feel like shareholders should be able to participate in that, like, make it a big deal and make sure that they can be there. Uh, so that was a big success this year. I'm really, really proud of. Yeah, so, so this year was the first time you did that? Yes. Yeah, so, so what's the COVID experience of kind of getting comfortable with kind of that broadcasting that Uh, video call type thing being, you know, having the both the technology, uh, being comfortable with the technology kind of did that jumpstart that idea. I've been asking for several years. We did uh get a new CEO a couple of years ago and um so I've been kind of working on it and uh also just, you know, we have to make that decision. Like a year in advance because the board meetings because it corresponds with the board meeting, uh, so those meetings get set really far in advance. So, you know, having to move it from the evening time to earlier in the day, you gotta get that planned out ahead. So it just took me some time, but, but we did it and it was a success, um, I think it went really well. And was that something where you provided the, the meals at all, all the different locations, they just had their own set up kind of thing. Yep, yep, we catered luncheon for every location. And we got gift cards for, sorry, for the truck drivers since they couldn't be there. They're out delivering our products. So we got, you know, like a Subway gift card or something like that so that they could still have lunch and then we recorded it so they could watch it when they got back. Has there ever been a challenge with getting uh leadership to, to OK all of the expenditures and even moving the time of the meeting. during the work day, so you're taking people off their day to day tasks, right, to attend this thing. Has there ever been a challenge here for you? that that can be a challenge, not so much the money. I've been pretty blessed with leadership, just, you know, I just do what I'm gonna do and I, I guess I ask for forgiveness instead of permission. Figure if they don't like it, they'll tell me, um. But, uh, as far as like the time of taking them off the floor, I definitely got some, you know, pushback on that. Um, but I think it's really just reminding them that these are employee owners and we need to treat them like owners. They deserve, you know, to know, and it's like an hour. So, you know, let them have this time and learn more about what's going on with their company and, you know, all of that. So, I don't let it faze me. Yeah, but you know, but that was a good point that you just made. It's 1 hour once a year almost, right? And, and that's, and, and I think one of those things and and it it kind of leads into your employee owner of the year. I think being willing to kind of provide not just the food but, uh, you know, doing it on company time kind of thing. I think it shows a certain measure of respect for your people as employee owners right? but also I think. Uh, we're all human beings and we, you know, with the employee owner of the year thing we like to know that people respect what it is we do, right? It's, it's a very human emotion. It makes, makes us all feel good, right? We all like that recognition, you know, is that been a kind of a fundamental kind of motivating kind of thing when you've designed these things is how can we. You know, kind of show ownership that they do have ownership. I don't know if we've like consciously made that decision or, or put that in, in play. I mean, I just in general want to communicate and make sure people understand uh their company and help them recognize that, um. And, and I feel like we try to do that in everything that we do. We've got some year-end meetings coming up uh here uh later this month and next month, and, you know, trying to make sure that we, that theme is throughout. You know, these are our strategic initiatives, but what does that actually mean for you? You. So, you know, these are things that are gonna make our company better, um, which in turn makes our EA more successful, which benefits each and every one of us. So just trying to bring that through, that theme through everything that we do. Yeah, and I, and I think that's another great uh tip, and I know that we've talked about it in various venues over the years is, is you figure out ways to tie everything kind of that you're doing. Back into the, the ownership aspect, right? You're, you know, we're doing this, that or the other thing because we're employee owners, you know, we respect you and all of those kind of things it just all kind of reinforces the the idea of ownership. Absolutely, yeah, I, I try to tag ESOP to everything. I mean, even stuff that's already going on like, oh, we've had a company picnic for years. We're gonna call it the ESOP picnic because I want that word associated with everything and just have it in front of mind more often. Um, to keep it, yeah, uh, in front of mind. Yeah, and that kind of brings up a question for me that I sometimes ask, do you use employee owner, employee ownership, or do you use EAP, or are the two, have you been able to make the two interchangeable in a sense? I, I probably use them interchangeably if we're talking about people, they're probably employee owners, but, you know, from a bigger picture, we use the term ESO a lot. OK. So, we had talked a couple of minutes ago, you had mentioned one of your, uh, you know, when we were putting this together, I, I asked if you had best practices or words of advice and you had mentioned earlier that the willingness to, you know, experiment and try things and, and accept that sometimes they don't work. I don't know if you have anything else you wanna add to that particular one, but maybe if there's any other uh ones that you've identified like uh this is what's worked for us, maybe you might wanna try it where you're at. Yeah, um, I would say my other pieces of advice were just don't expect to win everyone over. You know, you're, you're always gonna have people who aren't interested, who don't care. They just want to clock in and clock out. And that's OK. Uh, there's, there's a place for those folks, and that's fine. I would say, don't let that like kill your spirit, um, focus on the people who, who care, um, and who want it because it's so rewarding for them. Um, and I think you get a lot more traction out of engaging those people who care, uh, than, than trying and failing to engage with people who are never gonna care. Uh, so don't let those sorts of things stop you from doing stuff, you know, whatever it happens to be, and that's. Why, you know, I've accepted, you know, we've got the one branch that doesn't like to do much, but every once in a while, they surprise me and they, they do something. So you just have to keep, keep going, keep the momentum, you know, and we've chosen to do one thing per month just so that it's happening often. Um, and we can talk to employees often, but like I said, it can be as simple as a potluck, or, you know, and always in February we pass out candy for Valentine's Day, and I come up with something corny about, you know, we love our ESOP, you know, or something like that, you know, stick a sticker on a piece of candy, pass it out. But, you know, other times we're doing videos or, or training materials or things like that. Definitely wanna keep that involved, but, um, Really just keep doing it. Uh, you know, you never know when you're getting people and there's new employees starting all the time too, so you wanna make sure you're reaching everyone. Um, and then I would say the last piece of advice, um I had was just surround yourself with a great team. Uh, you know, find those people who are natural leaders, um, who are already doing things. Um, I had a previous boss tell me, people who do more, do more. Um, so even if they seem busy. You know, they're the ones who are gonna get it done. And so, you know, find those people who, who do that and, and get them on your team and find people who are willing to, you know, be honest and share, you know, even the, the bad feedback. This didn't work, you know, no one like this. Like, I want someone to tell me that, um, you know, I don't want people just to say yes, so, um. I have a great team of ESOP ambassadors, um, and, uh, they're, they're all, you know, willing to, to give those ideas and share that feedback and, and really own it at their locations as well. Yeah, I think you know that's part of being an employee owner is owning it, right? And if you can find people that take that to heart and and kind of live it and act like it, right? Um, I think that makes things easier. A couple of minutes ago you mentioned the accept that there's gonna be a certain number of people that just aren't gonna buy it for whatever reason, and I find a lot of uh communication uh committees and the people that are on those committees they. They, they kind of fixate on those people because they, they look at it as a challenge, right? And they, they wanna get that, you know, they want to convert, uh, that person, and I try to tell them that I'm not sure that's the, the best use of your time, you know, exactly, yeah, that's what I was alluding to is, you know, you're just gonna waste time and energy on those people. It's much more beneficial to put that time and energy into the people who care. Yeah, so that's, that's great stuff. So this has been fantastic discussion. It's great to have you on and I really appreciate all your willingness in the in our broader community whenever you know we have you at one of our uh virtual round tables or that kind of thing, always willing to kind of follow up with people and share what what it is you're doing, share resources and so it's really appreciative. So this is the moment in the podcast when I say, is there anything else that you wanna, any last words you wanna add in. Uh, before we let you go, words of wisdom that maybe we didn't, uh, hit. Yeah, I think just, you know, on that, um, you know, the ESOP community itself has always just been so giving, and I think that's one thing, you know, when I went to my first ESOP conference and, you know, this community of people is just great. Everyone's willing to share ideas. And I love it. And so I think, you know, that has helped me, um, also, you know, share whatever I can with, with anyone in this community, because it's just such a great, great group of people who, you know, aren't just focused on their own company, but they want to help others. And, uh, I'm just really privileged to be part of that. Yeah, I, I, uh, second that it's a really great community to be a part of and it's great pleasure I take when talking to employee owners. It's something that I'll never get tired of experiencing, you know, seeing, uh, these folks kind of live out this thing called employee ownership and see how it impacts lives and see how great the community is. I could talk forever, so I'll, I'll stop there, but, uh, I, uh, second that emotion, so to speak, so. I really wanna thank you, Bina, for coming out and, and speaking with us. This has been fantastic. I really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. All right, great. Well, that's it for another episode of Owners at Work podcast. Hope you enjoyed the show. As always, contact information for our guest is in the show notes. To get episodes of our podcast, owners at work automatically delivered to your device, please hit the subscribe button in your podcast app. If you're already subscribed, leave a rating or review. It really helps others find the show. But of course, what really helps others to find the show is telling people about the podcast and share. During the episode with friends, family, and colleagues. Expanding employee ownership starts with people knowing what it is and how it can change lives, and that requires us to tell those stories. So with that being said, don't forget we are always looking to tell those stories of employee ownership. If you would like to tell your story or talk about work that you're doing around employee ownership, we would love to have you on the podcast. Just send us an email to OEOC@kent.edu and as always, we will include that email in our show notes as well. OK. Well, until next time, stay safe, take care, and of course, happy holidays and happy New Year.