Man, If I Win...

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman this has not been an easy year for Dana White who has had to close one of her two hair salons and who has struggled amid the pandemic to keep the other one staffed but this week she reveals to Karen Clark Co and Paul DS that she's a finalist for a potentially game-changing pitch competition a $200,000 investment from quick and Loans is a huge validator when you're looking to grow says Dana when you have first money in from Dan Gilbert it bodess well for your company Dana also tells Karen and Paul that she's just made her most important hire ever a new operations manager who had a compelling reason for wanting to join Dana plus we've got another edition of the morning report news quiz you can subscribe to the morning report at 21h hats.com we scour the web every day for the most important stories for business owners so that you don't have to even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly podcast conversations will if nothing else let owners know they are not alone in facing challenges this week's lineup features Karen Clark Cole who is CEO of blink a user experienced research and design firm in Seattle Paul DS who is founder and CEO of Paul Down's cabin makers which is based outside of Philadelphia and makes custom conference tables and Dana White who is CEO of paraly Boyd a chain of hair salons based in Detroit this episode is titled man if I [Music] win first of all I have a quick 21 hats update for you if you listen to our podcast podcast two weeks ago you know that I have taken ownership of 21 hats which means I own the 21 hats podcast plus what will soon be the 21 hats morning report a daily email newsletter but I have no salary no employees and uh no Revenue that however did not stop me this week from giving myself a promotion I am now officially the founder and editorinchief of 21 hats media nice thank you thank you thank you very much congratulations you don't want to be the CEO Lauren see you right I thought about it um I might add that title at some point decide that's an overrated title Dana I believe you have some interesting news as well I do I am proud to share with your listening audience that I am a Detroit demo day finalist in the build category which is um a $200,000 award uh to the winner um which will be announced uh Tuesday we're recording on Friday the 16th we'll publish this on the following Tuesday so you mean this you're GNA find out Tuesday evening absolutely and the Detroit demo day tell us whose organization that is so Detroit demo day is sponsored by quick and Loans which um is owned by Dan Gilbert um it is their way of investing in local businesses that they feel have the ability to build and scale so this year because of covid it's not a live event it would normally be live on October 20th or thereabouts but this year it had to be done similar to a television show so what you guys will see when you watch it it'll be on YouTube I think through the Detroit demod day.org website um what you'll see is this Shark Tank type beautiful space long red carpet um you'll see me pitching um to a panel of Judges about per Le Boyd and and what I could do with the money who we are what we've done and and how the money will help and then after that the judges announce who won and and that's it so Dana well no were you there live then you're there live and no one else is is that right or not that was so we recorded Detroit demo day back in September you don't have to tell us but you you already know whether you want or not right I do I do I do I do okay and so what happens is that after the winner is announced then it goes into people's choice and so um you know you guys here on the panel and your listeners can go to Detroit demod day.org um you can go to my social media at perly boy on Instagram and vote for The People's Choice if I am able to win I receive an extra $25,000 so that'll be great where do we go to watch your pitch on Tuesday I believe it's Detroit demod day.com they haven't announced it's I'm on it right now okay yep there it is do Detroit demo.com and you'll be able to watch the Pitch live find out who the winner is and vote for People's Choice and what is this going to mean for your business man if I win $200,000 investment from quickin loans is a huge validator when you're looking to grow um so even even just being a finalist I've been approached by um people that are interested in you know investing in minority women-led businesses I was on a panel earlier uh this week speaking about the lack of BC dollars to minority women businesses and the need for that and even from that panel through the milkin Institute people have reached out to me via LinkedIn and said you know what I've reviewed your business model I've looked you up on line let's talk so that validator from quick and Loans if I were to win is um his his money is first money in um and when you have first money in from Dan Gilbert that's that's a that's a a bod well for your company so there's if I were to win I have plans um for what I'd like to do with the money um and how to scale does he get a percentage of the company really good question so you have two options um once you know the winner is announced I'm I'm assuming they sit you down and they say hey it can either be an interest free loan or a convertible note so you know I have to decide convertible note means it starts as a loan but could become Equity yes it converts over a specific amount of time oh so it automatically it will become Equity I believe so yes I believe and if it's a loan is there do you know if there's a term on the loan all I know is that it's interest fre and I don't know how long I don't know they have they have all of they discuss all of that with the winner um once it's announc so I don't know um I just know that if you win you have two options interest free loan or convertible note that's it so I don't know be careful you don't give too much away say again be careful you don't give too much away if youn and you go that route Dan Gilbert uh who built quick and L owns and and owns the Cleveland Cavaliers has been for maybe 10 years now working on building the entrepreneurial community in Detroit does does that Network mean anything to you does that help you absolutely again it's it's tied to you know you winning it so um if I win it's not just the money it's the access to the resources in the network that's been made very clear that the winner will get access to all of that um um they said um that they want people The Winner Circle or the winners once they're announced to come to them and talk about their Pie in the Sky for their business and they really help you using their Network and and his reach to to help the winner make that happen so fingers crossed right because that would be amazing but even being a finalist your business grows and so it's thanks to this podcast and and the conversations I've had and listen to on this podcast that I made the jump and hired my first salaried you know make substantially more money than I make employee um and even in the weeks that she's been there she has you know just gone through and turned so much around um and it's because of demo day being a finalist and the way they're setting it up it's going of kind of be a commercial you know because it's going to be this huge production even the camera crew Woodward origin that came and did the interviews with us and did the production on the day of of taping man it's a big event so I'm getting ready for the volume of people that are going to come and I'm going to be closed actually I'm going to close my business probably October 19th um and then stay closed till November 2nd because of Staffing and covid um we are finding that the federal government thought it was a good idea to pay people to stay home and so stylists who work in close proximity to people even though my salaries are above what they're offering have decided to stay home um and so staffing has been a challenge so we're doing a big hiring Drive the young lady I hired her background is recruitment she used to be the district manager for large hair salon chains um her largest territory was five states covering over 238 um 238 stylists so she is now working at per Boyd because she doesn't have to do the travel with two little kids and she's putting together a hiring drive so that we can get the staff get them trained and be ready to open our doors I was under the impression that the 600 bucks a week was over but I haven't been following it cuz none of my people are on unemployment it is over it is over over it's not completely over reduced well I guess the 600 bucks ended uh the president had another initiative which I don't think applied everywhere but I I think it resulted in an extra $300 in in many areas yep Michigan is one of those areas so in addition to the Michigan State unemployment they're getting they're getting another $300 a week from the federal government is it a problem do you think that you'll be closed at the time uh you're a finalist for this award uh are you missing an opportunity with that we are I mean ideally it would be best if we were open but open with limited staff would you know turn people away if the service isn't up to par if we're if we can only if we have one stylist or two or three stylists and they can only work two days a week because they're part-time you know it it doesn't make sense so you know my operations manager and I we sat down and said okay what are you willing to do and I'm not willing I'd rather you wait a week I'm not willing to compromise the brand so what are you going to do differently how are given the problems you've had Staffing how are you going to change things so that you find people who are willing to to show up what led us to this point is that leadership at my business checked out because after covid because they had a lot of things going on in their personal life um and so that took a front seat Carly boy took a back seat and that was not necessarily communicated to me what was communicated to me was everything's fine everything is going to be okay um Dana everything's fine but no everything wasn't fine um I did not have the professional in place and when we spoke about this on the podcast before you guys said to me you get what you pay for and and and no true words were spoken so what's going to be different now is that I have brought in an experienced leader of stylus and Salon I brought in someone who is is a recruiter and in that in that interview process and I had somebody else with me during that interview process to kind of make sure that I was vetting the right person because this hire was so critical and she just nailed it like Simone biles with every question like she just and it wasn't just you know what I wanted to hear she actually had experience examples of and and she was able to answer the how of how she gets this done um in recruiting for her is a big thing so right now I just need her to give her the time and the space to recruit I do have a question about this new hire the basic question with anybody who's good is why are they looking for a job exactly and and you said it was because she doesn't want to travel anymore yeah she was traveling 21 out of 30 days a month she has two eight-year-old daughters and she was starting to see the effects of her traveling on her kids and her and her partner sat down and said okay what are we going to do and she chose to to come off the road no that's a story that makes sense to me there's there's a a limited number of stories that make sense to me and uh dealing with family responsibilities is one of them I can tell you the candid reason what she gave when we asked her I asked her why per Le like I'm looking at her resume like we're one salon now we're go to two she did give us what she had seen and what she believes that this company can do but she said on a personal level um she goes I am the mother of two black girls I am white my daughters are black they're 8 years old and they're starting to believe the what the world is telling them and I'm not there to counter it I need to be home to counter it and she teared up and she looked at me and I said okay I get it right she's like there's start I need to be home for my girls there she they're starting to believe what the world is telling them and I said oh okay and that was that's the real reason that's a good reason that's that was a story she teared up a little bit and she looked away but she trusted me with it and even though that was emotional I refocused on her experience and I you know again a lot of the interview candidates you know gave me you know cursory I what I can do but she was one of the few that was able to go in the weeds and say how she can do it and give examples of how she's done it before and how it's turned a business around and then give references that I could call that can validate what she told well and hopefully part of her reason is she wants to show her daughters that she's working for a black woman that's it too she said I want my daughters to see me work for you I said okay I didn't know how I felt about that though at first I was like okay but you know she explained it to me there's one thing she's not she's very communicative which I love um so we're going to turn turn this around that sounds great I think there's there's one thing to watch out for when people come from a bigger company is that they tend to have a list of things that were done for them because they're from a bigger company so they could call HR you know like whatever somebody to fix the printer and you have to be very cognizant that you don't have that same set of things available and uh just make sure that you're clear that okay you you if if the printer needs to be fixed you may need to be the one to do it or I'm the one to call but just make sure that she understands she's in a different world and set up the the road map for how to solve those kinds of problems that she's not used to dealing with and that was a question I asked of her during the interview I asked her this is a a much smaller company than Great Clips how are you are you are you a solutions-based manager meaning when marketing needs to go out marketing is Dana when you have a a filter that needs to be changed it's not called the maintenance company for this company it's you know call the landlord are you able to operate without a network of resources behind you and leaning on me and US leaning on each other and you being Solutions based in order to get some of the smaller smaller um to-do items done and she talked to me about when she worked at a small Salon how you know she she she did it sounds great Paul I suspect most people who answer that question uh know the right answer to give have you learned anything about how to figure out whether somebody is sincere in that the answer no fair enough I tend to not hire um from big companies although I have on occasion uh it's a it's a red flag I've more heard about from other business owners and in particular my vistage leader says it's a huge one if you're hiring leadership uh if someone comes out of a large corporation they're just used to just used to a whole different world than in a small company in my own company uh the problems we run into tend to be of the fix the printer or change the filter type and fortunately Woodworkers are are really wired to just handle stuff like that um but what what my employee are weak at is thinking about systems as a solution to problems and it's very easy in a small company to just solve problems with fixes as opposed to systems so uh if you have the resources to take the next step up Beyond a problem fix and then think about how do we Implement a system and uh and and so that this never happens again but that requires a a lot of communication I want to switch to directions a little bit here I want to get to uh to a slightly different topic uh as you might imagine I've been giving a lot of thought uh lately to where entrepreneurs and business owners get their information uh what they read where they go for answers when they have questions uh I want to ask you guys about your uh reading habits and where you go when you have a question and I want to draw one important distinction which is there's news you need to know just to be informed citizen know what's going on in the world and then there's information that actually helps you run the business both are important and I'm I'm curious where you get both but I'm especially interested in where you get information that helps you uh run your business uh Karen could I start with you I look at it as it's my job to identify problems in the various conversations that I have all week long and the different meetings that I'm in um you know looking I'm always looking for ways to improve or things that aren't quite working right that a lot of people can't see because they're in the weeds and so I have the um advantage of having a higher view you know just sort of like floating above it all and I can see where something that we've been doing for a while it's just not efficient anymore it's not the right um way to do it anymore there's got to be a better way and I and I don't know what the answer is necessarily so I so but I but I'm but I see it as my job to identify the problem and so then what I'll do is start talking to individuals then I may have um conversation with a group of people who I think are the right group of people and start talking about the problem and see what kind of solutions they come up with um and start doing the research in that way so I try to avoid having my own solution until I've Heard lots and lots of input I think what I'm hearing from you Karen is that you don't really have a lot of confidence that you would find help for problems that you have running your business in the media at large there aren't we sites or Publications that you would go to for for that kind of help I I never have because you know somebody else's advice is best passed on to somebody else because it's never of used to yourself there's a quote something like that um because um my business is unique so how could I possibly get that out of a book I think you know there are there are some big sort of Concepts that I use from other places but but when I'm that's when I'm trying to solve a specific problem so that the answer to that problem is always within our own company because we're very um you know every company is unique and so how could anyone else who's not on the inside possibly tell me how to do it it's it's impossible um and so but where I go to you know broaden my thinking is the Harvard Business review and I and I really that's my Bible and I carry you know I probably have three Publications in my bag at a time and um and when I even when I get I'll just pick it up in the middle and read whatever I open it up to and it's always like ah wow I never thought about that and it's so well written and it's so relevant Paul how about you is there a place you go to for to to get inspiration or answer questions or help with running a business uh just the Morning Report Lauren I don't read anything else that's it your check is in the mail Paul okay um I tend to not look for books uh business books I just have not had a great experience with and you wrote One Paul I did because I didn't like all the other ones I I I tend to look for solutions from from other business owners particularly in my in my business group um and I keep a an eye open for the general Trends just through reading the news um but I I've you know maybe this has been a huge mistake but I just don't read a ton of business books I would never I think I've glanced at the hbr but uh it always felt like it was for companies that were just way larger and had more resources than mine and so um I when I was writing for the times I was concentrating on a set of issues that uh it seemed by the response of the readers that there is a sweet spot where uh there's things that need to be talked about that don't get aired in the ordinary media and I do agree that it's tough to to look at the problems within your own walls as a business owner and and then look around and see that everything out there in is too General and doesn't really address the specific of of my business but I do think there's also a set of problems that all businesses share um so that if it was an accounting or bookkeeping issue it's not really all that unique to Paul D's cabinet makers and often uh issues of how to deal with different types of employee situations are not all that unique you may think they're unique but as soon as you start asking around you realize a lot of people share the same issues have you found a place that uh that sheds a light on those issues I think you might have mentioned on this podcast that you uh you use Reddit I do use Reddit but the business parts of Reddit don't really pertain you know like we're a little too big to be to be in the in the tiny scram world and uh and but we're a little too small to be in the harbard business review world and I think that um i' I found the most information from my business group now we do get speakers who have written books and so we get kind of a digested version of whatever stick they're selling and that's useful um but I Reddit is interesting mostly because it's it's such a window into a wider range of people than you would get in uh ordinary media and uh so it's a it's a real rabbit hole though and can be addictive I would be careful if you you never looked at it to not get caught up in it are are you talking about Beyond business issues yeah they they have various forums and it's just it's all over the world and it's everybody and uh that's all is eye opening I find it very intimidating I don't even know how to get started on it well then just don't but the the the main feature of the of the business press or any press is to is to figure out what the middle of the road is and stay there so there's always a lot left out and uh and so Reddit is is a way to explore every kind of subgenre of Human Experience you can imagine and you just realize it's a big world out there and uh and it's a forum where people can explain their own situation and people who can do it well they're writing goes to the top and you get a chance to see it so I found it to be very useful for just getting a sense of the range of people who work for me you know like well what is it like to grow up with in a very very different background than the one I grew up in or what is it like to live in a very different situation than the one I'm in now because I've grew up relatively privileged and I still live relatively privileged but the people who work for me are from a much wider range of places and I just like to hear more about what it's like to be them so I can have a better you know better build a culture using a wide range of people and you find it's easier to to learn to get those answers on Reddit than talking to the people who actually work with you in some cases yes because Reddit will explore subjects that I would not bring up to a uh an employee and um you know there's certain things you really just can't can't put your arm around somebody's shoulder and say hey tell me about your personal life in this aspect or that aspect you just just can't do that and but you wonder and uh and I don't think that it's it's a it's a guarantee that reading something on Reddit gives you insight into any particular person but it does give you a wider a sense of The Wider Human Experience in the same way that much of what I read is just fiction because I like reading stories about people who are different than me and I think that there's something to be said for hearing people talk about what they've gone through and uh that gives me a sense of of a better sense of empathy uh when I'm trying to deal with the people in my world Dana is there a place that you go for uh information about running a business I do during covid I think the city of Detroit did a really good job of um posting up to the minute policy changes up to the minute Grant and loan applications PPP information tpe information so I go to this Facebook group um for Detroit small business owners um I also go to my Goldman Sachs um Network through their app and through their Facebook group Facebook group for the local Detroit isn't very active but um the Facebook group for that isn't active but the the larger app that it covers everybody is is very active so I go there do you go there to ask questions or to read what other people have posted or how do you use it both um especially people who've experienced similar things that I have um I go there to ask questions um and then I'll search while I'm waiting for an answer I'll search um you know through previous news feed and see what if anybody's ever brought it up I also Google I Google you know hey how to or not so much how to but just to check the law um make sure I'm doing it right um the state of Michigan has a the cosmetology board standards you know I'll check with them I'll read what they have there's a couple uh books that I like to I've read and reread to kind of get you know an idea of my compass where to go or how I'm doing or whatever but my main source of you know information is talking to people just having conversations with people who've been there um and or other perspectives from people who haven't been there pretty much just talking to people like on this podcast for instance yep and the people on this podcast have been great and um just people I've met I'll be speaking on a panel somewhere virtually and people will reach out to me via LinkedIn and that will start conversations um especially if they're in the the marketing Arena but pretty much Facebook has been good for local stuff um and my network has been good for you know looking out and Forbes has been good for kind of understanding you know the landscape around business and small business can any of you give me an example is there something that has stuck with you here's an Insight I got from somewhere that really made a difference for me in my business well yeah um the comments I got when I was writing for the times were were gamechanging um in terms of a an external article I'm having a hard time thinking of one but I do remember being someone suggesting that I have more meetings with my people because for the first 2 six seven years of my boss life I I rarely had a meeting of any kind and I remember thinking when I first started using PowerPoint it's like oh I got through 30 years without ever having to do a PowerPoint how good for me and uh now you know I don't necessarily love PowerPoint but the concept of of going that long without ever regularly sitting down with your people was just such a huge mistake and I couldn't see it until someone just said you should do this now having that venue was was not something that's available to most people so uh I just like interactive venues uh talking to people is great um Googling isn't bad but anything that allows you to ask a question listen to an answer follow up actually have a conversation in one way or another that could be written or it could be face to face but I think those are the best the best ways to get information so I've got one for you Lauren it's actually Jim Collins so our age-old business friend um and I I think about it all the time and I say it all the time which is the idea of um firing bullets and then shooting your Cannon and so the concept is uh prototype everything and so really you calibrate calibrate calibrate on an idea and you get feedback and you refine it and you get feedback and you try this and you try that when and this is in response to solving a problem with so with your Solutions you think of them as bullets so you try try it on a small scale try it with a few people try it with a few more try it with a few customers um and then when you get some feedback and you refine it and you get it to a point where you're really happy with it then once you've got it to to the point where it's working then you release it to the whole company you release it to all of your customers or you know that's when you fire your Canon you put all of your resources behind it and you really believe it's going to work and then you you just you go with it did you learn that lesson the hard way had you was there a time when you fired the cannon first oh yeah all the time I mean big cannons everywhere um and so you know it's just the idea of you know for us it's rolling A A A New Concept out that you know that I've worked on with group of people to a small group of people or a few individuals first and then it's working well with them you gather feedback refine it a little bit and then you roll it out to a slightly bigger group and bigger group and then we make the big Company announcement everyone's like well aren't we already doing that and the answer is yep you are and that's the beautiful thing because along the way you've also uh been doing some change management and so people are on board because they've been able to participate they've been able to give feedback they feel like it's partly their idea uh which is what you want if you really want this thing to be successful same with customers all right well appropriately enough I have a morning report news quiz for the three of you uh which will test whether you're actually reading the morning report in part but also whether you're paying attention to business news so if you're all ready the first question is we all know that if you play by the rules it's easy to get your PPP loan forgiven but as we noted this week in the Morning Report there's a catch do any of you know what the catch is the the that the expenses you spent uh may not be tax deductible that's correct Paul if the loan is forgiven you this is as the rules currently are in and you cannot deduct the expense now there's some speculation that may change and it's one reason why some people are saying you should not apply yet for your um for for forgiveness um but it it means that uh if the if you can't deduct the expense your income is going to be greater than you expected and some businesses are going to have a surprise tax bill as a result of that question number two as we recently noted in the morning report an Oregon based company called wild wld is on track to do $65 million in Revenue this year and expects to double that next year by selling a high-end candy made of fruit and something else any of you know what the something else is cocaine cannabis yes cannabis uh Wild's director of sales said uh that the shutdowns earlier this year resulted in real hysteria people were buying Edibles like they were buying toilet paper I'm curious what would you read something or hear something like that a business that just explodes uh in that particular area what does it make you think good for them yeah good for them good for them but it's you know you also wonder well let me see the business and you say oh it's cannabis well that's different it's cannabis is going to sell if just why yeah I'm not surprised I guess the other reaction I have is that look look for two years from now some articles about how brilliant the CEO was you know no matter what kakami theory this person espouses and uh that's my my observation is that if you stumble on the Fountain of cash it doesn't matter what you do you look smart because the business will grow and then people take way too much or put way too much weight on whatever uh set of of procedures led to them not just being destroyed by it and we we get overweighting of the wisdom of the founder question number three in Silicon Valley a big debate was recently ignited by the CEO of a company called coinbase who wrote a blog post that took a stand for being apolitical for focusing on profits and not on politics or social activism he even offered Severance packages to employees who decided to leave because of this new policy the question my question is when this started coin coinbase had roughly 1,200 employees how many chose to take that severance package and leave guesses uh less than 100 say about 100 uh you guessed a little high 60 or 5% okay my follow-up bonus question is can any of you explain what coinbase does it's got something to do with Bitcoin it's a digital currency exchange and I'm not going to go any further than that yeah good for them speaking of Fountain of cash well maybe some guy whose theory may not make any sense but it's a lot of publicity there you go there's an example all right last question Netflix recent recently announced a new policy it will automatically cancel the subscription of any customer who does something in particular what is that something doesn't use the service that's right any subscriber who fails to watch anything for a year if you're not using the service they don't want your money does that surprise any of you that's good for them that's awesome yeah that's great why is it great being responsible yeah we're not gonna take your money if you're not using the service it probably won't cost them much and the the the value of the pr they got for making that move is pretty high and we just contributed y guys thank you very much Lauren I had I just got an email saying that the voting for People's Choice starts October 20 20th and it ends October 25th at Detroit demod day.com and that they can vote one time time per device like I just read that one time per device so iPhone iPad and MacBook you said the 20th that's Tuesday right so when when people hear this podcast they will be able to vote from all of their devices what's the mailin option um there probably isn't one it's too susceptible to fraud Paul yeah that's right yeah well I happen to own 142,000 devices so day that's great Karen Clark call Paul downs and Dana White once again thank you very much thanks for listening everybody this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions remember we started the 21 hats podcast to help business owners feel a little less isolated to let them know they aren't the only ones fighting these battles if you got something out of this conversation please help us reach more people tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter at 21h hats and let me know if you have a question or a comment or a topic you'd like us to cover my email address is L Feldman 21h hats.com see you next time [Music]