Start Up, Throw Up, and Grow Up

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman this week Dana White drops a few surprises when we began this podcast in 2020 Dana had two promising hair salons in Detroit that she named after her grandmother paralite Boyd she had an innovative business model designed specifically for women with thick and curly hair and she was on her way to winning a prestigious business plan competition all of which presented her with a wide array of opportunities to consider would she continue to bootstrap would she franchise would she take on an investor would she open salons on military bases but the pandemic hit her hard struggling to find both employees and customers she eventually decided to close her Detroit locations and open a new one in Dallas where she hoped the greater population density would help her make a fresh start but in this episode Dana tells Jay gos and Laura Xander that she's come to a painful realization paral Boyd is not working even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations brought to you by our principal sponsor the great game of business bullet owners know they are not alone in facing challenges same thing with our daily newsletter the 21 hats Morning Report wi Inc magazine named the best newsletter for business owners and which you can subscribe to for free at 21h hats.com where you can also find transcripts of our podcast episodes and lots of other articles and interviews joining me this week on the podcast our regulars Jay gos CEO of the gos group whose companies in Chicago include a picture frame business artist frame service and a home furnishing store Jason Hol Dana White who is in the process of opening a new hair salon at Fort Liberty which used to be Fort Bragg in fville North Carolina and Laura Xander who is CEO of Jimmy beans wool a digital yarn store based in Reno Nevada and meline TSH a yarn supplier based in Fort Worth Texas the episode is titled start up throw up and grow up welcome Jay Dana and Laura it's great to have you all here especially you Dana we haven't spoken in quite some time how are you doing I'm well Lauren how are you I'm great thank you what's going on uh um let's see I've grown up I didn't know you needed to grow up oh yeah oh yeah if you're breathing you need to grow but I've really grown up I've like Sequoia Redwood grown up a in what way what did what happened well it's different for everybody but for me it's looking around and being very honest about what's working what's not working and why it's not not working in as much as I love peral boy peral boy is not working wow and it's not working because I have three major reasons um and this is you know pulling a page out of Jay's book when you sit there and you have your list right one paraloid isn't working because my market this is not what my market wants my market wants wigs weaves dreads that's what my market wants and it's not something you know you're imagining you can go to a major airport you can go to a major city which I was in you could go anywhere and most of the women that look like me are not wearing their hair like me period is that different than when you started in Michigan yes and no well New York right is where the inspiration came from wasn't it when you were in New York City exactly exactly and it was in 200 10 11 12 yes and no right because these women were coming to these salons in between getting their wigs weaves and braids and as they like to call them protective styles which are not really true that's the first thing second thing is first thing is my market second thing is Staffing I had to look from Staffing as a reflection not as from Dana's perspective but from the mindset of my staff members and Jay and I have had several conversations over the years where he's put that into perspective but I didn't put all those perspectives together really truly understand who I was hiring and one my employee base doesn't fit the vision that I'm trying to make right they come to the interview and they see Dana and they put their best fo forward for Dana right Dana's personable Dana's funny Dana's not the distant aloof owner you really can't talk to her Dana's right there so they're like oh my God I'm inspired I can be like that I'm going to do my best but that's not what they can do right and so they they present themselves very well in an interview because I'm a reflection of them that they don't see very often right and so they're like I'm going to do my best but they're not really capable or willing to say yeah I'm limited right so you're wondering why you get these people that are applying that are qualified but they're not able to do the job and the third thing is me per Boyd was born of a love for women that look like me that were not being serviced in the marketplace however the service that they wanted was not the service of Dana meaning Dana apparently boy is a reflection of how you wear your hair how what you do for yourself not a reflection of what the majority of women do even in the name the name has something to do with me not my market I thought it would resonate with my market being an old southern name but my market and most explain how you got the name it's my grandmother's name and it's an old southern you know and you thought hey that that would resonate but it's not it doesn't because it's it's a tongue twister and so you have to give them things that are bite-size so they don't have to pull their attention from whatever else they're thinking about to patronize your business are you talking about the consumers here are the ones consum consumers and quite honestly your staff right you have to make it bite-size right and Dana isn't bite-size Dana can hear a word oh that's fine right Dana's a little different and again years ago Jay and I had that conversation I just didn't put it all together and I concluded that per Le Boyd was more about me and what I wanted for my market as opposed to to my market and where they are they're not getting their hair done like that they don't want to do their hair like that they want to get it done and not touch it for weeks at a time you know some do some don't but most don't if you were to walk out right now and go to an airport or go to a large black metropolitan area most women have wigs weaves dreads braids protective styles very few of us are actually wearing our hair very few of us are actually getting blowouts every week or every other week we're just not doing it and so I tried to revolutionize an industry and my dear friend who's also a very successful businesswoman said perly boy is the best idea that none of us want because we don't have your level of hair freedom and I'm want she I'm black woman I don't just jump in a pool Dana does right and doesn't thinking about it Dana cuts her hair I just cut my hair a couple months ago it was it was practically Midway down my back I cut it off that is she goes I'm not saying we don't do that but we don't do that in masks that's not the norm for us and so she said right now I have a weave in my hair my other girlfriend said I have a eight piece in my hair because I just don't want to be bothered with it and that was it so how much of this though was moving from Detroit to Texas because it was working at some point it was or is the market changed or is it both it was both so it was working but it wasn't working as well as it should have been from what I and I'm I'm comparing myself to other salons right meaning you know their monthly Revenue compared to mine it was doing okay we weren't ever making money we weren't making enough money to service the Deb and we weren't making enough money to pay me consistently and comfortably can I just help you with you know I don't think you meant that it should have been making I think you mean to say what you needed to make so paral boy is no more w wow there's a product line and that may go forward in other aspects but as far as the actual you know walking only s day a week air Salon that is not happening at all you're talking about you had the salon in Dallas when we started this podcast you had two in Detroit you moved to Dallas you opened there um all done that's closed all of them done and I assume or not that this wasn't a case of you start a new business that takes a couple years to get momentum you're confident that it just wasn't that it wasn't going to happen exactly and so you know I had hired someone down here and it just kept getting worse and worse and my problem is I wasn't edgy enough to be like okay next move on right I kept accepting the excuses the personal issues the things and so here's what I will say pery Boyd is done but my military locations are not those are going to be a different brand a different name a different service it is just all over different but the good thing about that is that it has all of my knowledge in my Edge I've been broke I've been sad I've been depressed and I'm never going to let that happen again because I've got a different business model not saying there won't be issues but that edge and and excuse me for saying so Lauren but that she's front and center she's still Dana but quicker to fire you because I'm not going to be up worried about money because you can't get pregnant or whatever your issue is today that means you can't come to work then you need okay but next and I'm going to be constantly hiring it's never we're never not hiring we're always hiring there's three stages of business startup throw up you've been in throw up for a lot of years and then grow up and you've gotten to grow up that you realize what you're doing is not working and you're figuring out what you need to do so yeah I got to tell you 20 years ago I started a new thing on the side that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars that I look back and I think what was I thinking but like you know I figured it out eventually so I hope you're not torturing yourself are you torturing yourself I mean torturing I shouldn't have I couldn't have I should have known better I don't know that you could have known any of this a little bit okay I just don't know that you could have known any let her answer well there's been a lot of money put into this right there's been a lot of money and so that's why is it is it a bad idea the in the three things that I've shared with you yes but it's a salon on a military base with captive audience giving the people what they want making it a viable business based on setting the business model up instead of trying to revolutionize the industry go with the industry and make money on a military base and then there's other ones that are slated so there's going to be I don't want to say a renewal but you know the military option is still extremely viable on the phone with them all the time and they're still looking at me another basis so it's still not like oh this one and done because it's taken them forever in a day to open in in Fort Brag or for Liberty but once that gets going and now I have the new business model pulling back and and and meeting my staff where they are what did you tell me Jay years ago Dana when you were their age you were making $150,000 a year yeah you had the big job you proved the you you know the proofs and the pudding you had a big job making a lot of money which says that you have skill sets and a mentality or whatever that's different than someone that makes $20 my problem was I never even had that job so it took me many years to figure out gee everybody doesn't think like I think that took me 25 years to figure out I'm sorry to say and so I'm projecting this business Acumen on those that haven't been in the same business environment that I've been in so now when I'm hiring at Fort Liberty I don't have that same standard because they're not going to meet it and can you blame them like can you do hair can you come to work on time can you not look like you just rolled out of bed great tired well going back to the making $150,000 when you were their age do you ever think about just going back and making $150,000 a year and working 9 to five I was miserable I hated it I hated it I was miserable and you're happy now well I'm happier here's the thing Laura I thought about it I really did think about it but the point is that that required a lot of travel that was you know over 10 15 years ago I'm married now I can't just you know hop a flight to Pakistan to be gone for two weeks yeah you know what I mean like my lifestyle is different so it's worth it it's worth it to make less so that you have a more flexible lifestyle well no no no she's not necessarily saying she's going to make less I it took back a little bit Laura when you just asked that because I just never think that way like I'm an entrepreneur this is what I do in her case she thinks she's going to make more money long term and I think she can so this isn't a matter of throwing the tow to in five years or three years she could be making more than 1 15 grand and pull it off so yeah but she could also not I mean I think that there's well she for you that's an option for me that just never has been in my head at least yeah I would have let the military location go too if I didn't think there was any viable way of doing it I think it's an interesting you know we think about it all the time we're like how much easier would life have been if we had just stayed as software engineers and you know made good money and you know but there's a reason why we left and i' went through my old journals and I know why I left well there you go love that which is why it was a good question no no right absolutely we three very I didn't say it wasn't a good question I'm just suggesting we have three very different perspectives like that has never cross my mind in 45 years like well you've probably also never thought about just marrying somebody Rich so that you don't have to deal with it as well like I mean or have you no but I'm thinking about it now that you put it in my head yeah that would have been easier I know I'm telling you once a week at least I'm like I should have married better Dana I want to I want to ask you a little bit about your uh original business model and and what's different about the new one that you're going to use at the military base going back to the original business model as I understood it when we first started doing this podcast before the pandemic uh when you had two locations in Detroit you had a model it was based on the concept of moving your customers in and out as quickly as possible and you want uh a lot of money at a business plan competition because of that model at the time did you think you were trying to revolutionize this market and convince people to do something they hadn't been doing or did you think you were responding to a need in the market that was established and that people were ready for both I was going after a need in the market the the the talent of that that I didn't realize is that people weren't ready for it I thought oh I'll get them ready right and so I knew I was revolutionizing a market because I knew there wasn't hair freedom I knew that when black women go on vacation they get their what do you mean by what's hair Freedom black women go through things in regards to their hair as far as prep getting it ready doing this when they go on vacation a lot of them especially going to hot destinations they've got to go get it braided anything not to touch their hair right in case it gets wet um in case there gets sand in it whereas some of us don't go through that because we we just go we don't think about that I've never had a Weg I've never wore a wig and so my girlfriend who does all the time she said you have a hair Freedom that I don't hear you touch your hair I don't I don't want to be bothered with it every day I'll go get a weave so I don't I'll wrap it at night and be done with it it's just different for me I don't wrap my hair at night so Dana here's here's what I want to know looking back whatever three years ago do you think you were delusional or do you think I think I was hopeful okay I was goingon to say there's a thin line between optimistic and delusional and I'm here to tell you since I was talking to you a lot about it I don't think you were delusional what you said made sense who knew I've done stuff like that I've done stuff that I've lost tons of money on that made perfect sense that it took me a long time to figure out wasn't going to work and and in my case I realized I read a book about it I'm hypomanic I got into it and I thought I was going to pull it off and I let it go for way too long and lost lots of money that I didn't need to lose which is why I cringe when I hear people say never never never quit they leave out the second half which is unless in good judgment I should have thrown in the towel and moved on I'm happy and proud of the fact you're thrown in the tow on that but you get another plan that makes sense again and I'm here to tell welcome to entrepreneurship I've been long the tooth about this just thinking about you know Dana what were you thinking were you delusional and I would have been delusional if I had kept putting money into a business that just two people a day there was a boom there was a time when there was you know good you know Revenue it's just the market needed to get ready and my girlfriends have told me the Market's not going to be ready until black women and mass just feel differently about their hair and so the new business the one on the military basis is basically give the people what they want and the good thing about me is I know exactly what they want I just wanted them to feel about themselves way I feel about them and the way I feel about myself and that's not always the case right give the people what they want so this Salon full service I mean we're not doing nails or lashes but we are cutting coloring uh sew in take out weave and my my stylists are independent contractors the split is 7030 30 to them 70 to the house why because I'm paying for marketing is that competitive out is that what's out there because that doesn't sound too competitive it is so most salons that are doing well are 7030 the ones that are struggling are 6040 wow what what were you in Dallas and Detroit I was hourly so people got paid just for being there and being there I just want to see how far your stretching can Lauren and I go get our hair cut at this place probably not it's going to be women well and it's on a military base um but we won't be doing barbering but we'll still have the base peral boy services but I'm hiring stylists that know how to cut hair that are coming with a book of work that will be able to service the clients that I'm going to be marketing that we get that can do twist outs right that can do certain braiding styles um that can do a sew in and then let the decision stand if people want to come Multicultural that would be great but I can't fight that hair is segregated I can't fight that when white women see three black women doing hair they're say oh that salon's not for me that's them I can't fight that all I can do is say yes and then the few that do trust us to do it which I don't know why they wouldn't they just come and we're projected to do very well and that's just on the numbers that just the inquiries alone the people that are waiting for me to open we're projected to do very well but guess what even if we don't 70% of the revenue comes to me and I'm not paying triple net rent is based on a percentage of my Revenue that's it 8% of my revenue and that's includes water electricity all that stuff so everything that's 70% is going to go to marketing and my subscription services and putting money back into the business and then I'll talk to Jay and say Jay you know this is what I'm working with how much of this should I pay myself that's it it's a different business model wow when do you open probably prob November we're looking at I'm just yeah in a couple weeks yeah in a I'm headed back down there next week and then we're taking all the stuff off the windows got an electrician coming in and putting up the transformer for the chandelier like we're opening so what do you do about all the debt or you mention debt um on peral Le Boyd do you just kind of roll that over is that like I hope so like that my PL that's why I'm even going forward it's to pay the debt it's to pay down it's it's you know not to escape it at all but it's to pay it down and you have to have a a a financial model in your business that is conducive for that and so if you're all your overhead is if your big two expenses rent and payroll is all under 35 40% you have room for that I think let me tell you what you had that is unusual for most of us you have all these people with big names throwing you money giving you Awards telling you how wonderful you are how could you not buy some of that I certainly never had that Laura did you have that no I mean you're really in an interesting situation where all these big names some of I mean these are like gold wasn't it Goldman Sachs or something young you had these named people going oh my God like how could you not start to believe your own press I mean it made sense and I i' you know I tell you what I think there was nothing you were doing that that I I it made sense you let's just review we thought the solution was you weren't charging enough you were in the wrong markets okay that made sense but I didn't know that hairstyles were different or that I mean and you obviously didn't know it either so oops okay you figured that out so I can't say that anything you're talking about now doesn't make sense you're going to a place where the rent thing is great with there a percentage and they need your services and I believe you're going to pull that off so I was super nervous in telling you Jay you know what you are not whining you're not licking your wounds you figured some stuff out you're forging on had off to you like I said I was your age 20 year 21 years ago I went ahead and decided I was going to change the framing industry by doing a marketing campaign to get you know 500 frame shops to Market together and advertise together and for a minimal amount of money and it made perfect sense to me I just forgot that I don't most picture fers don't think like I do I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars but the point is I let it go on for three four years till I lost a zillion dollars when I should have figured out uh after a year it wasn't going to work so that's a great point is like P the the skill is learning to pull the plug faster absolutely and not feeling bad about it like oops it's not about quitting it's about moving on well just to be clear I mean Dana I'm assuming you did complain and you did feel sad and you did well but you have to go through that process I mean now you're on the other side of it and that's you know Jay and I always talk about Rocky like you're going to get the crap beat out of you it's whether you're going to get back up no nope that's not what happened at all I have not in I have not felt bad at all only thing I felt is what you guys have mentioned is what the hell took so long but as far and my one friend said oh my God don't you aren't you grieving it's a loss no because it wasn't serving me it was about the franchising stuff like what are you doing with that no there's no business to franchise it wasn't servicing now that part I will say you purposely didn't tell me about that that one I didn't think was a great move like those people just take your money and promise you the moon okay that one I I can't say good job on that one but the rest of it you were trying a new thing that seemed to make sense at the time a lot of people like my girlfriend's like oh my God I'm so sorry this is that and the other and I think that goes a part of it I didn't you know believe my hype right so that would be a part of that gaving this is who I was supposed to be and now I'm not that wasn't on the table it was no longer serving me so I had no problem saying you know what done now let's move on to something that will serve me and move on in life Dana back to your new business model I'm guessing you're not going to be able to turn over your customers as quickly I'm wondering if there's a an impact on your pricing now that you're on a military base versus um in a city how are you thinking about those things yep great questions and so for certain Services you are going to be able to turn them over as quickly my concern and when I'm interviewing is asking them how long does it take um and because we're expected to get bookings keeping people waiting that's something I talk about with people I interview this is not what we're going to do let me know the a lotted time so we could put it in our system and then that's what you have to operate in so it's going to be very collaborative with the stylist but if it's 5 hours for something that should take three then that's a conversation um and then you know that's a conversation with the manager that's a conversation with the stylist saying okay what's going on I don't think that'll be a problem why because these girls aren Booth rent Booth rent as long as they turn their money in every week they're fine no these women and maybe some men they get 30% for every head they do so doing one head that takes 5S and you're only here for six you're not you're cutting into your money so they want to get people in and out or they want to get those higher tickets of wigs and weeks you know sew inss or whatever they're going to or braids or whatever because those are going to take longer but it's a higher ticket price um so as long as the money and the time match then we'll be fine what's the name going to be I'm gonna withhold that until I open maybe it's going to be called Dana unplugged no not at all is there anything keeping you from opening at this point just Staffing and again you know it's so frustration frustrated with the military you know yep I'll have an email for you tomorrow two weeks goes by and so you're following up with them um hey so right now they were adamant for the whole time I've been in talks with them no cameras in your salon told me yesterday oh yeah you can have cameras in your salon I pulled up all the emails No cameras do security 80c airboard division No cameras and so she's like well I'll just email you what the compatibility has to be um the other hiccup is finding internet internet in a St like fville is not easy to come by um and so when it is it's really it's really poor so really bad internet so to speak so it's just it's these little itty bitty things right now if I had a stylist she could be in there doing hair right now she won't have internet um but everything it's built out I'm trying to picture this you're on a military base and internet is a problem that seems surprising problem it no internet is problem you're in kind of a shopping mall on the base right exactly exactly and everybody has a different internet provider and they all complain the only person in that mall that doesn't have an internet provider is Starbucks and Starbucks provides its own internet it's a mess are you concerned about the impact of dealing with the military going forward on your operations and I've talked to them I was but a lot of this has is hyperlocal a lot of this is the teen at that base um because I said here are the challenges I've running into here are the other bases that you want me to go to how many of these challenges are are you know systemwide and they said none of them and I said okay we'll see um but if they are I know I know so much more now that's why I said I've grown up Dana I think you said before that that you've been broke and it sounds like you haven't had a salon up and running for a while now have have you been doing anything else to to support yourself I have I have so um in March we lost a family member um she passed away March 13th and uh she had only pursued her retirement dream for one year she'd only been retired for one year and so I knew that there were some things that I wanted to do after I retired from owning this business right I didn't know if I was going to sell it I didn't know what I was going to do but I said you know what once that's here I'm going to do this well in March of this year it occurred to me that well you know what you may only get six7 8 nine 10 you may I have 15 years in retirement um and so I decided to pursue that what I wanted to do and I have become a flight attendant for major Mainline um Airline boom wow boom major Mar Airline yeah and it's it's the best kept employment secret I can't believe what they throw at their employees as far as tell us money and benefits and so okay I don't feel good because I caught a cold in Paris my husband and I just got back from Paris the other day okay is there an age limit for that job what did you have to do to get job right right who do you know no I mean it was a grueling training let's let's let's be very honest it was very tough um the FAA does not play I can travel in the United States the what is considered the domestic Continental that's Hawaii Alaska certain parts of Mexico Canada for free no money just hey Lauren you want to have lunch all right well I can be there tomorrow by 2 o'clock hey Jay you want me to go let's go to lunch yeah but you do have to work too right you do but it's not what you think I don't work more than what 80 hours a month what's a typical week you fly where and how long does it take so I have preferenced that all of my layovers be in Dallas I can come home so I fly to base I get a layover in Dallas I come home and I'm being paid this entire time then I go back to the airport I go out to another city come back to Dallas lay over at home then go out to another city and then go up to base and fly home done or I go to Amsterdam I've been to Amsterdam I've been to Paris I've been to Lisbon I've been to munic I'm going to London and Milan and I choose these trips I pick them up just all go here boom and you just put it on your schedule wow and you can fly as little or as much as you want with a guarantee of 11 days off a month guaranteed and your thinking is that this is something that you might want to pursue after your entrepreneurial career I thought so until she died she died and I said yeah no I'm doing it now and so I'm managing very well so like next week I don't bulk up on my flights when I need to be in North Carolina which is where Fort Liberty is which used to be called Fort Brag so how much do you expect to keep doing this once your salon is up and running and you're thinking about opening another on another military base yeah I'm going to I'm going to go down to the minimum hours of flighting that we need for flight and Healthcare benefits because the healthcare benefits are ridiculously stupid like I can't believe they pay you to take have benefits care for my dog when we go fly is paid for parking at the at the airport is free okay I can understand the free parking at the airport but it surprises me they're going to pay to babysit your dog they pay to take care of your dog and any parents or children you have living in your home so you fly they remove every obstacle for getting to work so this is why my flight prices are so freaking high right now huh y well it just goes back I'm going back to the why am I dealing with all this stress when I could just go be a flight attendant and yeah okay I'm not thinking that at all I'm just thinking wow who knew I'm Scrappy I'm Scrappy I'll do whatever I have to do I'm even during covid I delivered for Amazon I'm Scrappy I'm not proud I don't believe my hype you know what I mean like I'm I'll do whatever I did Amazon Flex for months during covid in my G6 delivering packages to people's door but the priority is getting open and getting these people on this base to do what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it D did you pause it all on this did if another job did it feel like quitting to you did it make you think that you might not have the energy to put into the business you're trying to build not at all and I would have felt that way if the job if the salon needed me to be there with the new business model it doesn't the barber shop owners live in Hawaii they're never there now will I be there twice a month sure and that's separate than me flying for a Mainline but I have a career at this Mainline that allows for that I don't have to report I could take a whole month off if I wanted to and like when we bought the Tosh business in Texas I mean I had basically planned to be there three out of four weeks for the first three months at least you know to get things running to make you know just to be there um do you kind of have the same thought process yeah but carefully though I got to be very careful because when they meet the owner they get a little crazy I'm going to be there but again these are independent contractors I'm pretty much they going to be there to make sure you don't look crazy and that you're doing good here you're GNA hire one manager one salaried person to run the whole thing though yes but not right away that's why I'm going to be there more oh got it yeah yeah yeah that makes sense once I'm very clear on what the manager is going to do and I hate to say it in Jay you might think I'm I'm wrong for this but as soon as I hire her I'm prepared to fire her just that simple like I'm just going to be I'm not going to hire her and be like oh this is my manager forever no probably fire you in six months if you don't prove me wrong okay now why would you think I would disagree with that I would think you should keep someone around that can't do the job no no no just because I didn't want you to think I wasn't being optimistic no I listen you never know when you get hiring you do the best you can and hopefully you get good at it and 80% of the time it works out but 20% of the time it doesn't but Jay I was so here's why I was nervous about telling you not because I felt you were going to be like Dana what are you thinking you're dumb this dumb it was just that you know this is a this is a switch a growth moment that I hope our you know Mentor mentee relationship can ride through when I was peral boy riding High you hear for everybody and when you're paraloid you know okay this has got to stop a lot of their identity to me was based on that and I know it was ours wasn't because we've talked about so many other things but when you're making a big life change you're growing up and you respect Laura and Lauren I mean don't get me wrong you guys I was nervous about telling you too I was I was like just not as nervous yeah Laura you know I thought Laura might be oh she's not in this with me anymore she doesn't know D I thought Lauren with me you know she doesn't really have any more added valuable content for the for the podcast anymore don't really need to talk to her these are all the things that went through my mind and that I accepted and same thing with Jay I was like you know Jay might be like you know what that you know she's not not perly boyed anymore I knew you guys are going to be proud of the transition but what I hope you'll find is that as I grow up and you continue to watch me grow up watch the military locations un you know unroll and you watch maybe the product line on these bases go then you'll see okay great that's it all right well we are out of time on that note my thanks to Jay goz Dana White and Laura Xander and to our sponsor the great game game of business which helps businesses use an open book management system to build healthier companies you can learn more at Great game.com Dana thanks for sharing all this with us obviously uh we do want to keep talking to you and we want to hear how it's going uh except when you're in Paris you don't want to hear any more about that yeah I don't want to know thanks everybody wait wait don't leave yet if you have a question or a comment that you'd like the 21 hat owners to address send it to me by replying to your Morning Report or by email at Lauren 21h hats.com that's L ren at21 hats.com do it now before you forget and don't be afraid to tell Jay what you really think he can take it and if you got something out of this conversation help us reach more business owners tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter subscribe to the morning report at 21h hats.com this episode was PR produced by Jess Theron founder of blank word Productions okay now you can leave thanks for listening everyone [Music]