We’ll Find Something for Them to Do

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman this week starting with a conversation about crucial hires Dana White and Laura Xander have made recently A salesperson for Laura and operations manager for Dana we found ourselves exploring some of the great unresolved debates of Entrepreneurship which comes first when hiring filling specific needs or finding places for good people with salespeople do you motivate by paying commission or do you build a team by paying salary and in finance do you bootstrap to maintain control or raise Capital to grow faster obviously there's no one right answer to any of these questions but Dana and Laura tell us what's been working for them even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will if nothing else let owners know they are not alone in facing these challenges same thing with the 21 hats Morning Report which you can subscribe to at 21h hats.com this week's 21 hats podcast lineup features Laura Xander who is CEO of Jimmy Bean wool a digital version of a neighborhood yarn shop that's based in Reno Nevada and also has a wholesale supplier mateline TSH in Fort Worth Texas and Dana White who is CEO of paral Boyd a chain of hair salons based in Detroit this episode is titled we'll find something for them to [Music] do Laura the last time you were on we were talking about your uh real estate issues and and the the building that you tried to buy that didn't go through but Al along the way you mentioned that you'd hired a salesperson who was having uh quite a bit of success it sounded like can you tell us a little bit about that what's uh what what led to uh the hiring and and how is it going sure the it's a lot more serendipitous than it sounds I'm not quite as intentional um but I had a rep that would visit me all the time um a guy that I had become friends with and you know we would talk kind of outside of work and he was working for a I'm sorry this is a sales rep that was trying to sell you something yes yes so he worked for one of our so at Jimmy beans he worked for one of the yarn companies that we bought from um a company that was out in New York and he worked for them for I think seven years and so he would come and visit our shop you know tce a year and then you know whenever we had issues we could talk with him blah blah blah um and he was a great salesman really really good really knowledgeable really understood the product blah you know um did a great job and was a real Hustler and he and hi happened to be I I'll call it like self-improvement buddies you know so over the last 10 years now you know we're always like oh what's the you know what's the latest uh he just bought me a book called you know how to think like a monk um so we're always kind of comparing notes and you know on this journey of constant never-ending self-improvement together so he left the yarn company a couple of years ago maybe two years ago and decided he went into real estate and didn't like real estate so then he went and worked for a corporate company and um just was miserable and didn't like it and he missed traveling so at the same time I had been talking to him for about a year because we had purchased that company Namaste which is now Del Q um and we are making Handbags and had been thinking about how to expand our reach with that um and had talked with him kind of loosely you know casually about hey maybe you could go to Australia for us and take our bags and see if you could sell them to some different yarn shops but it never financially made sense you know I mean they're just the market wasn't big enough to support the cost of sending him to Australia or sending him to Canada you know and then the hotels and you know all the expenses that go along with it we didn't think we could get enough Revenue to make it to make it worth it anyway so when we bought this mateline Tosh company this yarn company which is a multi-million dollar business um I was talking to him in January and we you know again Serendipity he needed a full-time job um for his own personal like financial reasons as opposed to being on being just a the sales rep which is usually a strictly commissioned job um you know the Reps in our industry get anywhere from like 8 to 12% on all sales so he needed a full-time job and we couldn't really so we just decided you know what why don't we do this why don't we try it why don't we hire you as an employee and then we'll pay your expenses and you can drive around the country and sell our yarn and our bags now to different shops and it could be a win-win where he gets to go travel all the time we actually bought him a tent that goes on top of his Subaru on top of his car so um you make your salesperson live in a tent wow no he wanted it he was so excited he's like and I mean what a great win-win so it took you know these tents are expensive it was a couple thousand bucks but you know it takes 15 nights of him staying in the tent as opposed to the hotel to pay for the tent and now he's got a tent that he can go camping with you know whenever he wants and he's like me you know we like we would he sleeps in the car sometimes um you know I mean before we got the tent he would just sleep in the car I don't know do you want a salesperson sleeping in the car before they call on an account um I I trust him and I trust his judgment that he's not just going to sleep in the car right before he goes you know to an account that maybe he does that two nights before and then he stays somewhere where he can take a shower but the B the point is that he is fully um just fully committed and invested and like we got to cut costs and we're trying to figure out how to build up inventory and you know he's not going out to like super fancy dinners um so he's a real team player you know he's he's really I don't know he's given it as all and he's accounting for probably 50% of our Revenue right now wow whoa oh yeah it's ridiculous what had you been doing before had you ever had a salesperson like this no so the TSH business this yarn business in Texas they had a group of sales reps so I think six of them um and those reps would go from store to store they were paid strictly on commission but they also had other accounts and other companies that they reped for so while they contributed a fair amount you know this wasn't their full-time job and this wasn't the only company that they were repping so we thought that by having one full-time guy who was 100% devoted to us um you know that we can make a big difference that way so before buying mateline Tosh you'd never really had the need to have a full-time person like this correct I know a lot of business owners struggle with hiring that first salesperson um they you know their concerns about whether they know what they're selling as well as the owner does there's also the issue of you know how you pay somebody is it do you do it on salary or Commission were you concerned about any of those issues um a little bit I wasn't concerned about him knowing the brand and knowing the line as well as I did or as well as any of us did because this is what he does I mean he's really good at knowing it and learning it um so he knows the product way better than I do granted I've only been there a year uh so it's not like I was the founder of the company right so I'm sure he doesn't know it as well as the founder that said I mean this is what he does and this is what he's good at um and in terms of kind of the pay structure you know that's where I'd like to say that this was super intentional um and I guess at some level it was because you know we talked about the different ways that we could approach it you know do we just do a commission thing do we do a salary plus commission but you know when it came right down to it we just ended up in a very unique situation where we came up with a win-win you know a win-win scenario for both of us um and we both had to give a little and we both had to trust a little how are you paying him is it what percentage is the salary what percentage commission no commission just full salary yeah oh wow yeah that's really interesting H you know I've had a lot of great conversations Through The Years a lot of very smart business owners who have uh told me that they think it's a great idea not to pay commission that you want employees to feel like you're uh that they're on the team and part of the organization and not just lone wolves out there for themselves uh but then when I rais this with with other business owners they think that idea is completely insane how did you decide to just do salary um again this was very situational I mean he needed you know he needed the constant income and so we gave him you know we gave him a salary that would be the equivalent of what he would make in commission if he were to sell X number of for the year um which is where we feel comfortable but we knew and he knew that he wouldn't be able to sell that amount for at least a year or 18 months because you know they don't get commission until the customer actually pays and the way our industry works and the way our business works is he could put an order in but the customer is not going to receive the product for four months so then he's not going to get his commission for four months and he wasn't in a position personally to be able to wait for those four months so again what we just decided is look we'll pay you this salary and then you know once you surpass that amount of sales that you know once you start to exceed that then maybe we can talk about bonuses we can talk about whatever but that's not going to be for a year or a year and a half that said in our kind of Loosey Goosey Arrangement where we're at is we bought him a tent you know a couple thousand tent for his thing um you know we're being really flexible were like okay what part of the world do you want to go visit once things open up of course does he know that he's accounting for 50% of your sales oh yeah absolutely yeah I mean and he comes to Texas and everybody like hugs him and you know the whole team is so grateful because he's providing jobs for so many people I'm not sure you're supposed to be doing that right now yeah what do you mean the hugging oh no okay I they're not actually hugging him but they're virtually a great Point um okay yes no they're not actually hugging and uh but they're all like thank you gracias uh anyway so you know I think part of the give and take is hey how does Australia sound does that sound fun or do you want to go to New Zealand or has this been an international business before is that what you bought or is that something that you're initiating um it has some International sales but we could it it could grow 500% easily um nobody's you know they haven't done a lot of work to encourage the international sales so like you know as soon as Canada opens up he'll go to Canada um so we're doing that and then like his dream in life is to have a van you know a sprinter van that's got the bed in it you know and the and all that stuff so that's what we're looking at we're looking at buying him a sprinter van um and then he can drive that around instead of using his own car and then he can sleep in that instead of sleeping in a hotel most of of the time it'll have its own shower I was going to ask I think the shower might be key yeah um then he can take yarn with him and sell yarn like Cash and Carry and you know so we're just being really flexible with each other and okay you know here's a van that could potentially cost $100,000 how does how do we make that make sense from a financial standpoint but then also give him a really cool lifestyle um so I you know again like I said it's kind of a unique situation yeah it is cuz you had the the person first it's not like you decided you needed to hire someone and then search the world for exactly the right person um do you think you've learned anything doing this I has it changed your thinking about how you want to sell going forward would you hire more salespeople it has changed the way we've think thought about things a lot actually uh and what Adam and I and Adam is the salesman he's really trying to get involved you know with the development side of the business as well not just the sales part but you know we talk a lot about do we need sales reps you know we love our sales reps and we're not going to let them go but at some point like when one of them drops off or one of them you know is going to do something else do we need to replace them or could we have Adam literally just go to all 50 states and drive around and then we build an inside sales team just to support him and do followup that way um you know do we have more like you said said more people on salary and less people on commission and we're just kind of exploring it and testing it out um so we but you're right about uh the fact that we had the person first and I mention that because that's how we've approached a lot of the business is you know people are like let's go hire for blah blah blah and I'm like well I don't want to hire for them I want the person to come to us you know I I you know like the woman that we just hired from Denver we just hired two people from Denver and they came to us and we found positions for them you know we didn't and we created positions for them we weren't really looking for them but when somebody good shows up then we we figure it out and then what has happened historically is then we grow the business grows to support them as a result of having them so maybe we end up kind of hiring a little earlier than we would have because we're constantly keeping our eyes open for good people interesting do you know what I mean like we never had to get to we haven't had to get to a point where we're like we need a Salesman because we ended up filling that position before we realized we needed it so Dana you have told us in recent uh conversations as about a big hire as well you hired a uh an operations manager that you were very excited about last time uh we spoke how's that working out it's working out really well um it's working out really fast um she hit the ground running and it's going really really really fast she's excited um about the work that she's doing she's excited about the business and i' I've been happy to have the conversation with her you know what are you seeing you know my view is very different I'm the owner and you know sometimes to me all I see is Doom and Gloom right but then you've got somebody who you know was the director of operations for a national chain was a you know general manager national chain of hair salons yes national chain of hair salons and so their perspective is very valuable she is had she's been with me over a month now and we talk all the time but her assessment on Peril Boyd was wow this is a plug-and-play business um the manager that she hired and who's also you know has experiened managing several salons is I've never seen anything like this and again I've set up you know relationship with them even though it's short I I'm not into flattery you know if if don't butter me up that's the worst thing to do because I see right through it um but I like the fact that their personalities aren't that way anyway there are you know straight straight Shooters so listening to their feedback on what they think with their vast experience about what perly boy is um and they still stand true with the fact that there was nothing wrong with your your business you just needed good leadership and you need volume and good people I think the last time you were on you talked about shutting down the business uh for maybe a week or two to staff up you had been struggling to to keep people uh working and I think she was leading that process of Staffing up how did that go it went amazing fully staffed wow we have one more position but we decided to add that after so our goal for reopening was met and exceeded with a weight list of stylist what did she do different wh why was she able to to get you staffed up like that so quickly she hired for the person not for the position because she said your systems and processes are strong enough we can train anybody as long as they have a license and she said we'll train anybody and she said that's what I mean your business isn't as bad as you know I thought it was she said please I walked in here on the day of my interview and my job is to look at what's going on that the owner isn't talking about so missing light bulbs and anything that was a concern we didn't have retail on the shelves but you had a plan for that but you needed leadership to help you execute so all I saw from day one interview one she said was you need leadership and I came in and now look at your business so we've are numbers have gone up we had a couple of slow days um but she's really really eager I think Jay or Paul brought up a good point in the previous episode about having a leader that's used to in a corporate environment where things move very quickly things move quickly at purely boy because there's not a lot of layers but I have you know I have a social media person who has our calendar planned out for what the posts are going to be so sometimes I'll get a text message dinga we should post about this today and it goes oh okay I don't think she realizes how deliberate our branding is um they created a site for us to hire on Facebook a Facebook page and I said oh take that down it was not branded at all didn't have our logo wasn't our colors and it was another paraloid Facebook page so they were very anxious but I said guys similarly to a corporate environment that has to be approved and that has to be designed so it fits the brand um and that was just the manager who was used to running smaller salons it didn't come from my operations manager who knew that so they working very quickly and I think they're very excited but we meant and exceeded our hiring goals to the point where we have weight list um about three or four stylist we also were able to start a um earn tolearn program because the problem in Michigan is you have young ladies who and men who want to be cosmetologist and get their license but the time requirement doesn't allow them to work as well and support their children or their families well Ashley has started an earnto learn program where you can get your basic amount of hours for cosmetology school while working at P Le Boyd and then because she's an instructor she can transer the hours to finish your cosmetology license at a a full school if you choose so they can just work here make money get their hours we'll train them and then they can decide if they want to complete at a cosmetology school we have two people already in the program um and that's it it's working out really really well I just have to what's the word or the phrase I guess get ready um and make sure I'm the leader ready for this type of employee are you having trouble letting go at all not at all um and I guess I I guess I struggle a little bit with the the phrase letting go because I'm like I don't have any problem letting go I have problem letting go I guess if somebody doesn't know what they're doing you know but if I find somebody that I I trust or you know they are competent blah blah blah but okay so you are you have any control issues like noticing you're not huh no my issue because I did a lot of work on the front end and I was very you know clear about what I wanted and how I wanted it done the only time I'll take back that control is if I walk in my salon and see something else what I think we're going through right now is the establishment of trust and the understanding that yes I understand that you have you know a many years in Salon experience but this is a different salon and I think she gets that it's a different salon so she defers to Dana so you know this is different I know it would have worked at Great Clips or Lady Jane but let me make sure it works here Dana in the third person do you refer to yourself in the third person when you talk no I was saying her I he says that I don't say that but she defers to Dana because she's like I let me make sure that got it yeah this is such a what she said this is a very precise business she says I've never seen anything like it and it wasn't until we were busy one day and she looked and says oh my goodness it's a machine she just kind of stood there and watched everything just kind of fall into place so um and it made her role clear as to what she needs to do to make sure that everything just keeps running like a machine I love that she's hiring for people not for position I think that's you just articulated what I was trying to say is that that's been our approach the whole time I think just intuitively and man some people do not like it like they get they're like they get really frustrated internally because they're like you know this is exactly the skill set that we need I'm like we're not a factory you know we're not looking for we're looking for people and if we find somebody who fits like that skill set 50% but they have 50% of other skills that we didn't even know we were looking for and they're a good fit for the business then we'll figure it out like that's the beauty of being flexible she she basically hired based on who I am and what I need is she literally hiring people who have no experience doing this no no no no so cosmetology you have to have a license or so many hours so it's not you know like retail okay you're running the cash register or you're managing the floor for putting apparel out no it we have a industry standard and she meets that but what we were doing differently in the past were checking the boxes and hiring people who were out for self hiring people who didn't quite grasp the vision and what we're trying to do couldn't quite let go of the fact that this is not a traditional salon and we're trying to perform traditionally in this salon so they weren't making it what I think and what I believe I've seen her do she's hiring for do you understand who we are and what we're doing if you can grasp that how this Salon is different what is it that they don't grasp generally what what do they not understand about your salons they wanted to be walking only seven days a week but I want to take my time I want to talk I want to promote myself I want to have my cell phone on the floor I I want to talk to this person in my chair as if they're my customer versus perly Boyd's customer so we had an example of a young lady who came in and she didn't realize who she was talking to you have no idea that that's the chief of staff for such and such but you're just running your mouth right because in your mind this is a traditional salon and this is my customer no this isn't your customer this is a customer of purely boy we had another customer who felt that he was giving a client a a compliment because her hair looked nice and he said you know what you gonna make a baby tonight and she burst out in tears and she said I really hope so not realizing that her and her husband have been trying for a very long time you don't know who's in your chair so she hired people who would have no problem carrying out the customer service level and the mindfulness level of perly Boyd and she said these people came to us these people started following us on Instagram these are people who sent their resume not necessarily through indeed but was referred to us who wanted to you know a change so they kind of already knew that they wanted something different and I said well what was that something different for them and I'll tell you guys seriously they wanted to work in a salon owned by a black woman or a black person I'm glad you mentioned that Dana because one of the things I wanted to ask you is you you've expressed concern that in the past when you had a even a a white receptionist that some of your customers wondered if the salon was still blackowned I believe your operations manager you told us is white I'm wondering if the same issue has come up absolutely absolutely I've had people text me do you still own it I've had people lean over and whisper to me you still own purely void right I say yeah why girl we saw two white girls in there I said so why don't you think I own it and then they get caught and so what I guess annoys me even more is you know how impressed they are the fact that I could have two white people working for me now they're super impressed and they respond to the business differently but they don't they're not surprised when it's the inverse when you see two black people working in an all-white business you don't think that the business is black owned it's just one of those obvious things I know I know it's not the same thing but in a similar vein that's what I experienced for the first probably 10 years because of my age you know so all the women that worked for us were 20 years older than me and so you know people would come in and they'd say can I talk to the owner and you know or whatever they just always assumed I was a high school help and you know would go to the other woman that was working there and just assume um so again I know it's different but it is it is similar in some ways uh what the preconceived notions are and then when they find out it's me they're like whoa I mean and actually that still kind of happens when I go to trade shows and stuff they're like wow I was exp actually you know I was expecting this old white guy yeah you know named James get I get I get age color and marriage actually because they'll look down at my hand and see there's no ring I've gotten that before Oh weird so yeah and then it's funny because I'm standing next to teron they defer to him as the owner and he said I'm here to change a light bulb you might want to talk to her like it's not me it's her you know and so it's it's a couple different things but with with my team um that has definitely been especially over the first couple of weeks that's been oh is this still on even though there's a gigantic picture of me that you can see from across the street they still wonder if I'm the so what do you say to your team about that like how do you address that with your team I don't really I kind of laugh about it with them you know both of my manager and my operations manager have told me you have one of the most loyal customer bases they've ever seen they want you to do well they they're just waiting for you to just take off they want you to do well so and communication with them is key but communication by phone my guests are not email people for some reason they're not people they're not social media people so they have been making a lot of phone calls calling people and talking to them checking in with them so Danny you've told us two things you've told us some of your customers are concerned that you might not be blackowned anymore but you've also told us that some of your customers are impressed that you have uh White employees is this a net positive for the business or or a problem that you think you have to deal with I think it's a net positive and I don't think they're two different categories they're both the first response is is this black oned yes it is they work for me oh interesting that positive for the business so the other thread that we've been talking to about Dana is you're winning Detroit demo day and a $200,000 uh infusion that you have to decide whether you want to take as a loan or as a convertible note and you have to decide how you're going to spend it and uh and also the possibility that that could lead to other investors taking interest in in what you're doing where does all that stand I have an a BC that is interested actually I've had a few approach me since winning um I have a VC that I've spoken with that I'm actually very interested in working with um and so I haven't touched the money yet I have a call with the uh the team next week to talk about new developments and this new development is you know the next step in pursuing um VC dollars so we are that's where we are um you have know after I had this initial conversation it was hey don't spend your money hold on and so okay let's hang on um I've done my vetting you know talk to people that know who these people are what they're about and everything's been glowing and positive have you talked to other entrepreneurs that this uh VC firm has invested in no I've talked to other entrepreneurs who are in the VC world that know who they are um it's it's it's I don't want to say it's a club but it's you know hey who will take you on and most of the people that I've talked to who are in this VC world really are interested in this company um and this firm taking them on and they've gone on to tell me why so they just have a really great reputation for um taking care of the businesses that they work with they're not they are definitely not a traditional DC and and that was part of the conversation if if you're going to work with perly Boyd similarly to a tech startup where you're expecting you know so much of a return in a year this is not the company for you and and they agreed they said no we we are of the same mindset it sounds like you're clear in your mind that you are willing to sell some Equity to bring in Venture Capital uh we've all heard you know horror stories about that are you sure this is something you want to do it is because it it's it's not VC in general it's just it's the Unicorn VC and we've talked about that before to make sure that it's unicorn meaning not that they're looking to invest in unicorns that grow really quickly but unicorn meaning they're a different kind of venture capital firm exactly similarly to you know Laura hiring and myself hiring or even taking on a VC it's all about fit who works who doesn't the end game might be great but if it's not the right fit it's going to be ugly in the end for me you have to in in trying to figure out one is VC the way to go I believe so you know you have to reverse engineer your vision and say okay what's the way the best way you feel you could get there and then I did that and say I think VC is the way to go but you want to make sure you want people who don't want you to have 10% ownership because then it just you know through the next series of rounds it doesn't look good um if Dana only owns 10% so you know working with people who understand that Dana needs to have a sizable investment is important and not every BC firm is like that some BC firms are you know we want you know half upfront you're like whoa you want 51% of my company for how much right I'm curious what Laura thinks you have any thoughts no I'm just excited to watch how this plays out and you know talk to Dana in two years and see like you know what the experience was like um I think you know you have such a different model and experience than we do because you want to open other locations so in my mind I mean you do need a lot of capital right and you need somebody who can help make that happen I mean that's a totally different situation than we're in so it's exciting I'm a little nervous I'm a little nervous because you know we've all heard the horror stories and I I'm just like Miss cely in The Color Purple I'm just waiting to see what color the wall is going to turn next you know Dana the other thing that's interesting about it is there we've all read countless stories in in recent years about how it's almost impossible for women to get Venture Capital the the percentage is Tiny it's almost it's even harder almost impossible for minorities uh to get venture capital and it's really hard for non-tech companies to get Venture Capital uh so you got to effecta here I know how do you explain that I think it's the the VC firm and what they're looking for I don't think they're looking for tech companies you know this is a company based you know in the midwest they're heavily involved in the midwest um they're not in Silicone Valley or a silicone alley they're looking for businesses like mine you know they're looking for minority women businesses to take on that are or aren't in Tech so and you look at their you know portfolio especially of the list of I have about five to six potential VCS that I'm like this they look they seem like they would be a fit um and they are all they all have a business development component they all come with a a vast Network um literally a phone call away to help get you what you need to grow they're very invested in making sure you grow not so much for the short return but again they want to set you up to succeed so they can get bought out and you can move forward so yeah it is a it's a it's kind of a weird Trifecta but I think Co brought that on too I think Co required VCS and you know all these other companies to look at viable what are viable companies differently when thrown you know something like an international pandemic some of the ones you thought were going to just Skyrocket and take off didn't they closed um so that I think the one I think businesses or VCS or people who are invest are looking at companies a little differently um based on the new information from the pandemic and what we've learned about the resilience of companies we're almost out of time um I'm not sure this question makes sense for you Dana but I'd like to ask Laura uh the question that I asked uh William Jay and Paul last week which is about the what what this year has done to all of you in in some sense and and and to your businesses uh I'm curious one do you think your business is worth more or less today than it was when this year began back in January and I I'd also like to ask you if somebody were to come along and offer you twice what you think the business is worth would you consider selling it now um great question uh do I think the business is worth more or less than it was yeah um I don't know I guess it's probably worth more um but part of that a big part of that is because we bought a company that was about to go bankrupt and turned it around yeah and we've turned it around so our Revenue has grown 50% you know or 80% or something this year um versus last year but that's because we bought another company you know I mean it's um we're not comparing Apples to Apples if you hadn't bought the company you Jimmy be will still would have probably had a pretty good year right people people have been knitting yes yep knitting I mean we're really lucky that we're in an industry that has um really benefited from people staying at home um and needing something to do to reduce stress so yeah so we've had a good year um would I would I walk away if somebody offered twice what it's worth today probably not only because in the next three years we're going to be worth twice as much you know I mean we're still this year is still a year of huge investment you know we're we got a new facility that's going to be custom built we've invested you know we've tripled our inventory um and on the Texas side of things um you know we've invested in new computer system blah blah blah so um it's not worth as much as it might be was that a deliberate decision to to triple inventory yes so when we bought it there was almost zero inventory oh I see I mean there was like literally zero inventory so we've had to go in and so it's three times nothing I mean there was some but it wasn't even the right inventory that's a great question like I guess who wouldn't walk away or you know who wouldn't take an offer that's two time you know if somebody offers you two times for your house I mean of course you would move wouldn't you like why wouldn't you well you know it depends on your your situation and you just gave us a good reason not to cuz you think it's going to be worth even more soon and that's kind of the answer that that William gave us U Paul said the same thing you just said why wouldn't I do that yeah I mean for me for me it's really fun you know so I enjoy I mean this has been the most stressful year and that's what Jay said J Jay's you know Jay is further along than any of you yeah he's old we'll find out if he's listening yeah exactly but uh but he likes going to work and he doesn't have any hobbies and he doesn't want to move to Florida so he's not but if somebody offered him three times I think he would really start thinking about it sure I'm eight years in so this mon could be eight years for purely boy my answer is absolutely not well you're at a point where exciting things are happening it really wouldn't make sense for you to walk away at this point I love the possibility of the vision way too much offer me four or five times that means means you know that it'll probably do 10 times you're offering me double you probably know it's double that so no um I want to see what the end of the story looks like and I want to be um I don't necessarily need to be in the front seat but I definitely want to be in the cockpit um when I see what what happens so for me um and I think the the value of my company has definitely increased this year and I'm so surprised by it um our numbers it's hard to say because I Clos a location so in our Midtown location yeah numbers have gone up because we don't have the Southfield location but um we're there so you know we'll see I I think we're much better situated um now than we were last year last question I I I hate to do this but we are having this conversation at a time when uh covid cases are just exploding across the country I'm curious how concerned both of you are by that uh and what impact you think it might have on your businesses Dana I'm very concerned but do what we have to do to keep my staff and my customer safe so we need to close down we need to close down I hope we have a plan in place I know I've got my product line will be here by Black Friday so there'll be things that people can buy online but we're just trying to see you know if we have to close down we will keep the staff stfe but I just hope the government is prepared to help small businesses like they were before Laura you were going to open your your one brick and mortar retail location last time we we spoke did that actually happen it did yeah it's open um just a little bit I mean we don't have a ton of traffic so um yeah I mean I think I think we're just open on Saturday and Sunday so just for a little while um but am concerned um mine I I think I'm I'm with Dana you know we're all many of us have grown accustomed to this as The New Normal and the new way of life so whatever needs to happen is what needs to happen for the greater good and we'll just adapt on the back end so I'm not concerned because I know we can adapt because we've got we've had practice Dana White and Laura Xander thank you as always thanks for listening everybody this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions remember we started the 21 hats podcasts to help business owners feel a little less isolated to let them know they aren't the only ones fighting these battles if you got something out of this conversation please help us reach more people tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter at 21 uncore hats and let me know if you have a question or a comment or a topic you'd like us to cover my email address is L Feldman 21h hats.com see you next time [Music]