‘What Doesn’t Keep Me Up at Night?’

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman this week we did something different we recorded the session in Chicago at our very first 21 hats in-person Event in May as you may know some 20 impressive entrepreneurs from around the country from different Industries with businesses of different sizes and stages gathered to talk shop for 3 Days the last thing we did was to record this episode in which we gave the participants the opportunity to asked the podcast regulars anything they wanted those regulars included Jay goz Sarah seagull and Dana White and the questions addressed everything from hiring to motivating to delegating to pricing to coping with stress to what they wished they'd figured out sooner and to what still keeps them up at night and when there were no more questions I asked those who attended the Chicago event what I could have done to make it better that I would invite criticism in a conversation being recorded for a podcast audience took some of the participants by surprise but as you'll hear worked out pretty much the way I hoped even in Good Times owning and running a business could be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations brought to you by our principal sponsor the great game of business will it owners know they are not alone in facing challenges same thing with our daily newsletter the 21 hats Morning Report which Jak magazine named the best newsletter for business owners and which you can subscribe to for free at 21h hats.com where you can also find transcripts of our podcast episode episodes and lots of other articles and interviews the episode is titled what doesn't keep me up at night this is just a great opportunity to get some feedback from some really smart people who've been hanging out with us this week so I'd like to throw it open does anybody here have a question that they would like to ask anybody on the panel or all the panel my name is Noah motawi I'm the owner and founder of motawi tile Works maker of very beautiful and distinctive art tiles my question is for Jay and it's about hiring so I'm always interested in learning new questions to ask of new hires I'm trying to tease out whether these are the kind just kind decent human beings and whether they're I'm looking for humble hungry and smart people for my company and I'm interested to hear a question that you would ask someone and what kind of uh answer you would look for or how you interpret an answer well we hire people everyone from working in the factory to you know doing sales so it's different but the first thing I want to know is why are you looking for a job um because that can be very telling so are you still working that's a big question are they still working yes why do you want to leave well it's just time to which I go God that sounds like [ __ ] what do you mean it's just time what does that mean and then I I would ask them so what do you like about where you're at and what don't you like why are you looking I want to know why they looking for a job and then given the internet and the websites you can now say to them what do you know about my company that makes it seem like a good place for you to work I mean they should have done a little research to go on and look at your website for God's Sak so I want to see if they have any good answers as to why they want to work here and then I want to know what it is what are you looking for in a job and that's probably half the process the other half of the process is checking references which from my experience most people don't do or they say they do when they don't and you are just playing with fire and it's absolutely correct that nine out of 10 times you'll be wasting your time with the reference check and that one time will save you a lot of grief so good ad great in interview as I ask people that are in retail like tell me a difficult customer story what you had and that's very telling is that answering your question though about finding kind people or that's a difficult I don't know how to tell if they're kind I asked you a question earlier and I liked your answer okay what did I say I think the question you asked was what did you think your previous boss could have done better right I what tell me if you were in charge of the job you're at or your previous job what do you think they could be doing better and I want to hear an answer if they say nothing okay they're not being honest there must be something and then if they see there was a problem I want to hear oh did you talk to your boss about it and I want to hear yeah actually I did I talked to them several times I talked to their boss and that's why I'm looking for a job nothing changes what I don't want to hear is I don't want to see the rolling eyes and oh no they don't listen to anybody I don't want to hear that I want to hear about somebody who was trying to participate that was trying to make things better because otherwise they're going to be complaining about you I want people they're going to say to our face hey what's this can we do something better here I want people to complain to our face and you can tell from their last job frequently whether they're the ones that are going to be the team player to say what's on their mind or they're just going to complain to everybody else what do you think about references though you mentioned talking to references and like someone's going to put forward their three favorite people that are going to say wonderful things I want not true absolutely not true no it's it's references with me are a waste of time the three to four people they put on there are three to four people who tell the absolute best every time it's very rare I've gotten a reference where someone said yeah no they're not going to say no it's about what they don't say when when I did the blog with Lauren years ago someone sent a great suggestion and he says if you're interviewing someone that the person's saying nothing but wonderful things about and they quit then he would say to them so it sounds like they were a great employee pause what did you do to screw that up well I didn't say they were perfect and they'll tell you the truth I've had people tell me really bad stuff by just saying to them well they're not working for you so what went wrong there what I've learned is unless it's their friend they just set you up with and it was a setup which you should be able to figure out no one wants to lie for someone that was a terrible employ I have never met a human being that is going to let the words come out of their mouth oh they were great when they were a nightmare they won't their brain won't allow it to come out of their mouth they're going to give you a long silence I had one guy once tell me well I don't want to elaborate well that was enough really you don't want to elaborate you have I guess you have to be kind of specific with their kind of references like please provide us a former your former managers uh and if it wasn't the last J if somebody hasn't accumulated people that they've worked with they can say something positive about them there's something wrong there now if they're right out of college that's a problem and you can't there's not much you can get for references but if somebody's been working in the workplace and they can't find someone to say what what do I want to hear in the reference oh she's great you should hire her that's what I want to hear [Music] Jim Cal Triad components group good to see you all so you all come from very diverse uh backgrounds in and and industries I want to know what keeps you up at night and what are you afraid of after the time you've been in your business oo that's a good question don't come to me first you know that phrase what keeps you up at night sometimes I get up thinking about stuff I have no control over and had nothing to do with business so I what am I worried about in the business not a whole lot I mean if somebody key a key employee left that'd be a problem and it does it keep me up in it what I've learned over the years is stop worrying about stuff that you can't control because it's just like I just I'm trying to choose not to worry about stuff does my subconscious do it sometimes yes but at the moment there's nothing business-wise that's that's making me get what if he asked you this question 20 years ago what would your answer have been oh I had constant just cash flow problems employe I I keep telling everyone I've been doing this for 40 5 years I've gotten better at it it it this didn't happen in 10 years I can this did not happen in 10 years 20 years ago I was stressed out to the max and I take it back about 20 years ago when I started to get it under control so so so let me rephrase a question for you I would say what changed me from completely being stressed out to to not hiring and firing hiring and firing hiring and firing for me it's growth and make making sure I don't make the same mistakes that have hurt me you know personally or you know not personally but emotionally and hurt my business um fear of the unknown right yeah that what keeps me you know cash flow because I am 10 years in so it's you know cash flow do we have enough money we're growing so slow why are we going what didn't I do right am I am I repeating the same mistakes that keeps me up at night Sarah what doesn't keep me up at night every aspect of my business keeps me up at night like I I make lists and I have to have a p pad of paper and Pen next to my D my bed because if I don't write it down then I will I I think it's a a thing in my family where we solve The World's problems as we're trying to sleep at the same time and the only way to get it off of my brain is if I put it down on a piece of paper so you know I worry about I don't worry so much about making payroll anym more because we're we're profitable um but I worry about making sure that our clients are successful and happy I worry about whether my my staff is um being successful and happy and you know flourishing and being challenged and giving being given New Opportunities so they want to stay with us and want want to grow with us and then I definitely worry about the growth of the business like where should I put my money and my time so I can make sure that we we're growing in a su uh a a way that is sustainable U and good for us in the long term cuz I don't want to start doing something that is not going to be sustainable for us and and and not going to be something that uh we can repeat for other clients another question KY my name is uh kemy tigor and I'm the founder of uh up bounders we make uh screen-free puzzles and toys um with decidedly uh diverse imagery I'm uh earlier on in our uh startup Journey than uh you all are so I'm making a a lot of decisions and um I'm having those sort of first employees first contractor um you know engagements and I wondered as you were building your teams um who what were the first positions that you began uh to fill I couldn't grow my business without a team my you know I was one woman and so I and I and I'm not a hair stylist so during build out I opened so my first positions were stylist and shampoo assistant similarly to you two your three years in I replaced myself if you will in the administrative capacity so it was now bring on a manager bring on an assistant manager and a receptionist I was 22 years old when I started I hired people that were younger I hired kids that were in high they were out of high school and were doing Framing and it evolved over the years how long was it before I hired like a grown-up that was like taking responsibility that probably six years into it at that point but I you know I started at zero um different businesses need different skill sets but I would tell you the worst advice someone gave me I was having a real bad day at the front counter and this older guy said to me Jay the bigger you get the harder it gets absolutely not true my life is a it's no comparison easier now than it was 20 years ago so I want to tell everybody who's struggling keep working at it you figure it out and it gets easier that should be the message it gets easier not harder because you can figure this out it's complicated there's a lot of working part don't think you're going to figure this out in 5 years Sarah my first hire was to find somebody who could do the things that I shouldn't be doing anymore the things that I knew that I could train somebody else to do um with competence so for PR that's building media lists you know pitching out to reporters getting feedback doing followup it's like all of that what I do for a living the the general PR it's not brain surgery it just takes a person who's organized who can understand the nuances of how a newsroom works and what reporters are looking for and be following Trends and and really be able to communicate well with the clients um and uh so my first person and actually my first several people are always people that can do something that takes something off my plate and I use that phrase It's not brain surgery but it's not scooping ice cream either no it's somewhere in between so most jobs are take some kind of skill set but I think that's important is to to hire people to do things that yeah you know how to do them and you could probably do them really well but should you be doing them and I think that's something that you've talked a lot about as well oh you've got to delegate no before you can delegate you have to have a competent employee to delegate to because delegating to an incompetent employee is not a good thing and that's the part they leave out work it's double work Steve K CEO of B found online a digital marketing agency here in Chicago there's always this idea as people are starting out and I'm sure a lot of your listeners Lauren are new to business even we've got some folks in the room here have only been at this a year or two looking back and you've each had careers of varying lengths what do you tell your former self Jay what do you tell your 22-year-old self when you started this what advice would you give them now after everything you've been through looking back uh there's no question there's two things that I just messed up for many many many years don't be naive with hiring if you're looking for really good people only one out of 10's going to be a real good hire so don't just interview people oh they're nice and hire them because they're probably not going to work out so I went through a horrible learning curve with that and the second one is and this isn't just me this is General to most entrepreneurs I was giving tremendous service and tremendous product and I wasn't charging enough I said this out loud listen price Quality Service most people want to give two out of three I'm going to give give all three stupid you can't give all three it is impossible to give all three because if you're giving the best service and the best product you're going to have to have better people and you have to buy buy better stuff it's going to cost more so you you you you got to pick the two out of three and I think if you're a small business owner it's easier to give quality and service than it is to try to get price Because unless you're Walmart I don't know how you're going to buy cheaper or something to pass along the savings so uh that haunted me for many many many many years you need to charge what you need to charge I would have gone back and told her you're smarter than you realize stop giving everybody the microphone as if you don't already know um and raise your prices raise your price um so I agree with the raise your prices it's know your value um because even though what I do is not brain surgery people can't do what I do and I know that they can't do what I do because they don't have the the 10,000 hours of having been a reporter the more than 10,000 hours of being a publicist um they don't have my background and ability to dive into different Industries like I do like I can talk metaverse one one moment and talk Donuts the next moment and not everybody has the ability to do that um I tell my younger self um although we've only been around for 5 years um is to trust your gut um cuz I've made some hiring mistakes where I was like well everybody likes the person they seem very competent but I was like and I didn't trust my gut or u a potential client where I got the feeling that they just didn't understand the value of PR and I and I you know I was like you know what but they're such a great company and they have such a great product but they we spent so much time explaining the value of what we did we just it it took into the hours that we should have been working on them as a client and then the the last thing would be um is keep with the idea that just because it was done a certain way um in the industry forever doesn't mean you have to do it that same way um for example like um when I was working at other agencies there was a really crazy formality in terms of how you address your clients and every email that you got was like had the scent had to be very like structured and and professional F and I was like that's such a waste of time I don't want my team spending you know 15 minutes curating out a fancy email when you're just trying to get some a point across so we integrated slack now we have slack Channels with all of our clients we are constantly communicating and and sometimes it's funny sometimes it's short sometimes it's straight to the point but has Mak us so much more efficient in what we do um and so you don't have to do the do it the way that everybody else has done um to be successful I'll tell you what I didn't do wrong I have always from day one had an unwavering support to make sure the customer is taken care of every single time and that's why I have survived all of the bad stuff I did the wrong hiring the cash flow problems pricing problems whatever I've survived that all because I have always taken care of the customer and at the end of the day if you look at my growth chart compared to somebody else it's just about being a little bit better just a little bit better if everyone else is retaining 90 % of the customers and you retain 95 it's over 40 years over 40 years there a difference between being a multi-million dollar business or a 200,000 it's just being a little bit better it's not about being a lot better this is uh kemi uh again with upb Founders so um social media podcast advertising um is everything Niche or are there still ways to reach uh the mass Market such that it's still exists can we all agree that podcast advertising is the most promising of those [Laughter] [Music] options I think if you want to reach younger audiences podcast advertising is absolutely where you should spend your money um you know you talk to anybody who's under um you know 40 what radio station they look look listen to and they're going to look at you cross-eyed I mean I listen to news radio like it's going out of style and my children are like forced to listen to it because that's what I listen to um but they don't listen to radio at all um nobody nobody I just want to get nobody under 40 listens to the radio it's pretty light a lot let's just let's get for nobody to there people they listen for the weather and they listen for their traffic and that's about it but podcasts like podcast is what they listen to they don't they don't watch television anymore it's all about streaming it's being able to have the program that they want on demand so yeah I think podcasts are a fantastic place to to invest your money but depending on your demographic like who are you going for cuz um you know if we're talking to if my client says um we really want to reach out to people that are in you know 25 and under we're going to be like all right tick tock Tik tok's what you got to do we got to talk to influencers we got to get some content going out there and you have to look at the medium and figure out who's watching and listening or reading that medium and figuring out whether it matches your target audience and that's where you invest your money this is Chris Campbell with uh ritzer you know we've talked a lot this the last two days here in Chicago about business but I'm kind of curious mostly because I find most entrepreneurs match the office and the home life in terms of the same level of intensity whatever the Hobbies or Passions might be I'm relaxed all day long so I don't have to go home to Rel I mean it I'm in business groups I said to them at the last meeting I looked around the room and I go does everyone realize that every single month we have meetings every single one of you talks about how stressed out out you are and I'm not have you seen the difference and I'm trying to make a point to them that there's something wrong there I just don't think you have to be stressed out all day long at business I think if you hire the right people it'll get easier so I'm relaxed to work what do I do it I I don't play cards I don't I'm fairly uh love my family married 43 years love being with my grandchildren but I somebody said to me Jay you need a hobby and I laughed I go really my life is my hobby my business is my hobby I don't need a hobby so I don't have a great answer for that and I don't play pickle ball though everyone else I know seems to be playing pickle ball I'm a reader I'm a crossstitcher um I love a good movie oh I love movies too I left that out yeah I love a good movie um I live in a great community so I spend time in that Community walking um just but I'm constantly that's my problem I'm constantly my business lives with me it is my third parent and my first child right it's just always is that a problem that's the question is that a problem it can be a problem if you're worrying about things you can't control so um but I'm learning as over time to okay this this not productive um I haven't had vacation in years haven't had vacation um cuz it's like now's not a good time now it's not a good time now it's not a good time but in Co I was you know oh my God this is the worst thing that possibly happened but it actually was a blessing because um it required that you take pause step back look at your business assess and move it differently and it gave you the time and space to do it so I carve out time to take care of Dana I've learned about a Spas what is that like it is amazing so I've gone to a spa and that's going to be a part of my my selfcare there you go J I like going to Spas yeah do you go to Spa not a lot but occasionally sure are you kidding me why would I kid no because you you just you would never I never knew that that J go couple years every couple years maybe wow Sarah um so I'm a I'm a bit of a joiner so I'm on a couple boards um boards for that are in my industry um and I do a bunch of events so like um I'll organize um um tours of local station TV stations and radio stations and stuff and we'll do cocktails and stuff and just getting to know people in my industry who happen to live in my my area um and then I coached cheerleading so I did cheerleading when I was younger um I see cheerleading as a valuable way to teach people confidence in Sp public speaking being front of an audience having an ease at being the center of attention because while I can do television put me on NBC and Today's show no problem I'll talk to like putting me in front of a live studio audience is it's you know a little stressful for me but um it's amazing how the confidence they get from day one to to the end of the season I always love telling people how many really well-known people were cheerleaders Ronald Reagan was was a a cheerleader um uh Ruth Bader gin Ginsburg was a cheerleader Sandra Bullock was a cheerleader like the LA there is a long list of especially past presidents that were cheerleaders next question hi my name is na Livingston and I'm the founder of creative repute which is a graphic design website development and mobile app agency my question is speaking of business needs have you ever made and implemented a plan to help grow your business such as hiring more sales team members training or increasing your total addressable Market by moving to a new location I'm curious what growth plan did you implement or do you want to implement yes all of the above all of the above great question um as many of you know I I moved from two locations in Detroit Michigan to one and a half locations in Dallas Texas um I think you know n you asked me yesterday did you know anybody you have any I knew I know nobody in Texas I have no family in Texas um but I knew that the market was right for it um and so the business plan changed because I was going to a different Market we were walk-in only now and temporarily we are by appointment only why because I didn't want to jar the market with not only are we an evolved form of Hair Care um not only is our business model already kind of different but now you're walking only and I wasn't sure that walking only would compute so you know like in Michigan it really didn't we had people who would show up at the salot at 2 o'clock in the morning and call leave a voice message why aren't you open because they heard Walkin only and thought 24/7 and that's not what it was um and so the business model had to change as far as how we service we are going to go to walk-in only we're going to go back um but just to get our feet wet we're going to do Salon um just by appointment um other ways we've changed the business model I've added more services I've been confident and saying okay when we're talking about getting new ideas what did my customer need that I didn't give them in Detroit the other big thing is marketing marketing marketing marketing I said at dinner last night I'm afraid I'm about to make the same mistakes in Dallas Texas where it doesn't matter how ripe the market is if I'm not telling anybody right the young ladies that moved me out there's a moving company most of the movers were women in Michigan they walked in they were like oh my God this place is beautiful how come I've never heard of you Jay do you have ever a growth plan or do you just show up every day and keep no I've opened stores I've hired salespeople sometimes it works sometimes doesn't work um it usually works but I've I've got four successful businesses but I've started eight businesses and some of them crashed and burned pretty quick and some of them I held on to too long and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars so like it goes with the territory yeah I opened up a Papa New York did some nice business there but the rent was so it was it just it I tried it I I will not be the guy in his deathbed with regrets saying oh I wish I would have tried that I've tried a lot of stuff and I'm still standing and I feel good about that Nel is there a growth strategy or plan that you're considering that you're wondering about uh yeah I just took a business boot camp for the first time and uh did a pitch for the first time as well uh and something that I'm considering is focusing on sales and marketing uh by maybe opening up another Virtual Office in another city so that I can increase the client base and making sure I have feet on the ground hiring more sales team members in that particular location I say do it but make sure you're going to an area I wouldn't go across the country and you're in Philly I might go to another part of Pennsylvania yeah maybe New York where the cost of living is higher so I can charge more I wouldn't charge more because the cost of living is higher I would charge more because what service are you providing in New York that might cost a little more right I always tie my pricing to what the what the what we're putting out not necessarily the needs of I mean have you run out of customer I mean Philadelphia is a big city a big city why would you need or do you have a specialty that is better to be leveraged in different cities so why would you leave Philly yeah not not only am I a business owner but I'm a uh visual artist in Philadelphia and so I was born and raised I have a really strong sense of community and it's very supportive uh but I do for I'm only known as a local artist and with the business I do feel like I know every single nonprofit in the city and I've worked with them at some point so I do just want to see what it is like to expand okay so that makes so you've run out of the nonprofit that you think is your best Niche you've run out of them okay that makes sense any other questions hi this is Jennifer Karen I'm the CEO of SB Expos and events an Association Convention management company uh so yesterday uh we spent some time asking each other questions and one of the first questions was how big do you want to be and after 2 days here I think the better question that I'd like to ask you is to imagine a future where you are not stressed as Jay was talking about that he's not now uh where even though you're wearing the 21 different hats that they're not feeling um overwhelming they're not pressing down on your skull right what does that look like to you guys what does that future look like the future for me is we are in all major markets I have a you know a few stores I have a few franchises I have um products that are being sold um you know profitably um and I have sold the military based company that I have I think a non-stressful day as the CEO and owner of pely Boyd is Dana 20 hours or less a week with a just a great group of people that are on this Mission with me similarly to Jay that believe that we can change how women of color look at their hair care they can go jump in a pool cuz there's a paral boid over there they can live a different life because you know the hair doesn't dictate where I go vacation where I go to college where it's not on their list of things to do there's a freedom that they're all interested in continuing and implementing through this company um and working with that group of people things just get done right ideas can be implemented and they're executed they come back to me you love it yep let's go um so it's it's it's focusing on executing the vision as opposed to oh my god do we meet payroll oh my God is is do we have enough money um that's it and I don't it used to be 250 Plus locations and da d da it's not that anymore it's all major markets opening up to franchising if you find the right people people are at the center and that's what would make me Stressless Sarah can you envision that future stressfree I I mean I have stress but like I think I always have stress um I think it's just part of being the person that responsible for the livelihoods of your staff um I I had I had a an intern asked me like what's your fiveyear and 10year plan I'm like I I would love to say that I have one that's definitive but like um I would like to continue to grow at a good Pace um someday it might be nice to open a second office in another another major Metropolitan city um preferably somewhere where I would want to be for a while um I'd love to have that kind of west coast East Coast thing I mean I'm from Boston like it'd be awesome to go back um and establish there as well um but uh I would love to get big enough where we have divisions that are really robust where we have our technology division um we have a consumer goods division that's broken down by food wine um cpg Brands and really be able to have separate practices within the company that can be very dialed into those specific Industries so you know going from a generalist um agency to an agency that is um has focused groups that really know each of those Industries would be kind of my goal I guess I think the key is the 21 hats you have four staff members that are very competent that each take three or four of them so now you're left with five of them that's how it works not sure that math works but yeah math does work you got four people that each take uh three four four five five things so they each have five things so that gives that that takes care of all you don't need to get rid of all of them if they took care of three of them that would lighten the load cuz a lot of the 21 hats are like things you have to deal with occasionally real estate it's not like you do it every [Music] day another question yeah this is Chris with riter again so we talked a little about motivations you're talking about staff and how important it is to have key people and uh in the room earlier today we're talking about it's more than just money I'm kind of curious what kind of creative motivators have you done that you've gotten exceptional results from your team and Jay has these playing cards and he goes there's maybe 10 ways to motivate people and 100 ways to demotivate them and I'd just be curious to hear a few examples I get that question oh how do you motivate people and I've learned that's not the problem the problem is when you interview people looking for jobs you hear about all the ways to demotivate people I think if you treat people nicely and respectfully and they enjoy they they join the mission I don't have any motivational thing in my head that I said oh boy this got everybody on fire when I told them this I gave them a bone I don't do that stuff I can think of a lots of ways one little comment one stupid thing you do that could really really turn somebody off and my average employee has been here 11 years I got many people that have been here over 20 because they own their jobs and we all work together so I would suggest everyone stop thinking about ways of motivating people and start thinking about ways that you might be demotivating them because some of them aren't going to tell you the truth when they leave they're just going to leave um and I think a well-oiled company with with people that are on the mission with you is very different this is where the world's coming to our to our side the many of the Millennials want to work ACC companied with a soul where they can join a mission and feel good about it they don't want to go to work at the big Corporation where you spend three qus of your time playing politics of making yourself look good figure out who to talk and I have never worked at the big Corporation all I know is talking to people that I've interviewed when I hear about some of this minations they go through working in the place stuff that's broken they can't get fixed cuz oh well some get the bonus based upon this it's it's dysfunctional crazy stuff that a smaller company doesn't have to be they could just be Mission driven together so I think it's about being Mission driven and I believe in Kudos making sure that you're you are telling your team when they're doing a good job or they've had an accomplishment immediately you know whether or not it's overs slack and and to the entire team Channel and saying you know Rockstar Emily landed a placement for a client good job Emily like I mean we've all had those situations where you've walked into a store and they like oh the salesperson's like I love your shoes and I'm the crappy shoes but for that moment I'm like I have great shoes you know and it's those random acts of kindness that I think keep people motivated and feel it just gives you like a little burst of something we actually use a we have a an awesome app it's called I'm going to plug somebody's app it's called thanks t h n KS and the everybody on staff has access to it and can send somebody like um a gift card to a Starbucks or whatever and within a certain range and it it's just for like a job well done like you went above and beyond what you were expected to do and you did a really great job and I'm thinking about you and it's a nice way for them to do that I'm old school so we have a Kudos box in the salon yeah we have pieces of paper and you write a note to your colleague saying great job with that customer she was really giving you a hard time we Fold It Up put in the box and the next time that person works the manager goes in see whose names are on for the morning meeting and she reads them out loud at the morning meeting and then she gives them to her I was that is huge like I was listening to a story the other day about um a an elementary school teacher that asked everybody in the class to write down one word about everybody in the classroom um and put those on a piece of paper for each of the kids and they're you know there are people that have those pieces of paper with the descript and they keep them in their wallet and it's just these great positive reminders of like how you cuz I never know how how I come across to other people great you come up great thanks we also have PB bucks so that's something from uh PB bucks so it's up to the manager's discretion there's middle perly boy dollars with the logo on it or different other branding things um and in addition to the Kudos she's handing out PB bucks and you get so many and you can get a $250 spa package all the way down to a gas card and are we what's on that board for gifts is dictated by the staff um so what's important so there's a good concert coming up could you get us tickets to Da d da and then the tickets two tickets are up there you know or two you know placeholders for tickets so those are how we Mo but the Kudos it's pieces of paper and box and when I tell you that build's camaraderie they love it there's been tears I take it back there is something we do with the factory you all were in the cafer did you notice the Rocky statue in the corner anybody yeah I saw it once a month we have the rocky award which of course most of the people that work for me weren't born when Rocky came out cu that was 1976 I think so but we do the Rocky award the employee of the month and they read out who was nominated and why and then we turn on bum bum bum bum bum You Know the music and they come up and they can picture and we have a good time with that and and and we certainly do some small things like that and it's not just about employees as well it's about customers I don't know if you've ever heard what A lanap is it's a it's a it's a a I believe a cre world word for an unexpected um Delight right so um I believe it's the Double Tree hotels where you walk in the lobby and they give you cookies you know you even like you go buy shoes youve ever had a salesperson bring out three other pairs that you might like because you pick that one pair it's those Unexpected Delights um and uh I think they work you know who doesn't get those days the boss no the boss no I've never gotten a Kudos and I'm okay with that though I will tell you reporters reporters don't get them either and that's my big thing like if you're ever working with a reporter and they write you a really nice they they write a great article and you put it on Twitter or you find it and you reshare it on Twitter all of those algorithms will tag the news station the the newss outlet but they won't tag the actual reporter so you have to do the next step and like tagging the reporter and saying thanks it was awesome talking to you a great article we've spent the last couple of days spending a lot of time with each other we've had some good meals some good walks we took a boat ride we've been in this conference room where we've been kicking around big picture ideas uh this is the first time I've done anything like this and I'm just curious if you could offer me any suggestions what could be done better what would have made this a better experience anybody care to respond to that I will please there name tags I brought that up I no name tag but I I think I always love to have um a takeaway even if it's not like I mean I love Jay's car playing cards they're fantastic but like a a takeaway of of something I'm going to do to implement in my business to make it better and I I know that's really hard because it's really dependent on what kind of business you have but like you may just a cheat sheet of something that will help you think along the like along the day um there's so many conversations that I've had over the last two days um that you know even a a workbook where it forces me to make some um uh decisions or um action items that I'm going to do when I get back who else has a suggestion hi I'm Dr Trisha graph uh psychology builds business I currently do Consulting with CEOs and business owners to mitigate risk and help make sure that they reach the opportunity in front of them and then I'm looking at um building two scalable businesses related to informational products and tangible products I personally believe that it's inside of us each to figure out how we're going to maximize a situation what we're going to get out of it and so I've been fighting like crazy um because my my Consulting business is dialed in I love it I love what I do and I'm looking at this Horizon in front of me of where I'm going without a plan without like clear what do my profit margins look like with so many questions in my head we went through a um discussion yesterday about Revenue profit uh and we ran out of time right before lunch and running out of time right before lunch when I was going to actually ask the whole group to make me cry because I needed questions I needed people to drill me so I I went to lunch and I was completely frustrated because I was holding all of this anst in my head and there was nowhere for it to go what I know about myself is that when I'm pushed to that part it's right before a breakthrough it's right before something really Clicks in so I had to sit with it and I knew that we had tapped into something hard in terms of the barriers that are holding me back so I sat with it I sat with it I listened and throughout the evening and this morning like the AHA moments came because there was um you had space like at breakfast there was space for us to talk to each other and in that space I was both able to process and and get feedback and so for me that was gamechanging uh and I think what I'm trying to say is that sometimes the answer isn't having a perfect plan it's allowing enough mess in the process for people to figure out their way uh Jim cow again um what I really appreciated was there's plenty of white space to operate you didn't have everything so programmed out as to what we're going to do it was a really really wonderful time here so that's what I I took away from this I'll throw a takeaway on top of that Jim Steve K again my takeaway is the size of the group it allowed us an opportunity to get to know everybody in the room about 20 people and it allowed you to get to know everybody in the room without going oh I haven't been over there over there over there where a lot of the larger events you sort of get stuck and you're lucky if you get to know somebody and and luckier still if you get to know one or two people I think I walked away with half a dozen good friends and I've gotten to know everybody at least a little bit in the room for my takeaway this is Jennifer Karen again I would say the reason I listen to the podcast is the authenticity and the the rawness uh of the anecdotal stories I can read a lot of business books and I do um but that emotion that rawness authenticity doesn't come out in a business book right and so I think my takeaway from this uh last couple days is with the group size with the sharing that went through with the breakthroughs um with the a moments it was the sharing and um rawness of our group so hearing me cry on the podcast was okay well yeah cuz I have to say I remember and I was like Dana I can't tell you how many times I've listened to your story and hung up or or turned off the podcast and be like oh I feel her I feel her right and it felt I had no idea where you were at the moment it could have been thousands of miles away but you made me feel not alone oh wow so I'd get off the podcast and go what the [ __ ] I get off and I'm like what did I just do and he's my barometer Lauren was that okay cuz I I just I'm I'm not really feeling comfortable with it and he's like nope I got you I trust you you're like you're good okay so that's why I wasn't I was actually making a joke so it is okay that I cry you answered it honestly you're like oh no it's really good that you do it's good at business conferences and you're listen to professional speakers speak they're not crying yeah and yet they're also not worried about payroll right they're not worried about their employee who you forgot to do it after 5:00 on Thursday and ADP won't run payroll so now people aren't going to get paid till Monday morning and now people are scared they're going to pay mortgage those professional speakers aren't thinking about that you are and I hear you so thank you for sharing I want to hear where people messed up so I don't do that like I want to hear where the mistakes that you made so I don't make them too and absolutely to do that for other people like I try to be an open book about you know where I've went wrong and where I've made mistakes um and I think that those experiences what help other people um because I've certainly made mistakes um bad judgment calls nothing Earth shattering but at the time like it eats you up but um I think having that level of Candor um is is it's only going to come back to you in a positive way we're going to have to wrap up anybody else with a suggestion of something that worked or didn't work that we could do better K hi this is uh Camy here with up bounders I was just going to say um you know for anybody uh listening who is in sort of the early uh startup phase as uh you know as we are what I found to be great about this uh experience is that I didn't feel like I was wasting um any time you know for lack of a better word um I hardly do anything else except you know sort of work on the business and so if I'm going to be here you know I want to make sure it's like constructive and it was like 157% you know constructive and um you know we sort of sell product to other retailers so you know I had a chance to you know see some other sort of uh Retail Partners here uh in Chicago but you know just every minute of every second in I haven't uh worried uh you know about the business because I knew that these were constructive conversations constructive observations of other entrepreneurs the authenticity so um that was really great I'm going to send out a press release with Sour's help I am I think it's awesome I think what you're doing is amazing and you have a good story and a good hook um but I think every business has a good story and a good hook but the people are running the businesses don't necessarily see them so sometimes it is valuable to have an outside Party come in and ask those questions um because they'll see you differently um but that's awesome Trisha you had a question yeah so okay I'm not debating and I want to be supportive of your strategy but I was so confused what were your what's your strategy in asking us to tell the audience what we didn't like the whole 21 hats brand is predicated on the idea that we have real raw conversations that we talk about things that uh other people other business owners don't always hear discussed um I as you all know I often give Jay a hard time I ask him lots of questions about why he's got too much inventory or why he doesn't spend more time figuring out digital marketing and I feel it's incumbent upon me to be open and uh and willing to have a difficult conversation about what I'm trying to do as well so it starts with that um but it also it has something to do with the fact that I know each and every one of you now having spent the last couple of days with you and I knew if I asked you uh what could I do better there was a good chance you would also tell me what you did like and what you got out of it and and that did happen U but I wanted it to be a real conversation you know if I just said hey tell me how great a time this was wasn't this wonderful um it it wouldn't have been real but if I ask you know give me some constructive criticism then maybe it will be meaningful but here's the thing the positive stuff that works is as important as what doesn't work because how can you replicate if you don't know what works but I knew I would get that too and if I just asked for that it wouldn't be as meaningful Lauren is an entrepreneur he is you know he he spent a career as a journalist um and an editor and you know this is a new foray for him so I think having this is just as beneficial to you as a business owner uh as to the rest of us you know you may be moderating and and and posting the event but you're also learning how to do things better for your own business as well and so um for us giving him candid feedback is only going to help him improve and make the next one which I entirely look forward to um you know if you want to do it in California we can make that Arrangement he's going to have 1100 people at w I I I know a fantastic vineyard with a great space um uh you know there are a lot of heads noing right nowo Taylor Swift is going to be entertaining at the next one all right well I want to thank the podcast regulars who are here Dana Jay and Sarah and I especially want to thank all of you who uh attended this event and participated in this conversation um I know I got a lot out of this thank you all and thanks also to our sponsor the great game of business wait wait don't leave yet if you have a question or a comment that you'd like the 21 hats owners to address send it to me by replying to your Morning Report or by email at Lauren 21h hats.com that's l r n at21 hats.com do it now before you forget and don't be afraid to tell Jay what you really think you can take it and if you got something out of this conversation help us reach more business owners tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter subscribe to the morning report at 21h hats.com this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions okay now you can leave thanks for listening everyone [Music]