You’re Not Human Anymore. You’re the Boss. Deal With It

[Music] hello everyone welcome to the 21 hats podcast I'm your host Lauren Feldman in this week's report from the front lines of the crisis we talked about overcoming the fear of raising prices not easy during a pandemic dealing with difficult customers and difficult employees and what opportunities the owners see emerging from the disruption but the focal point of the conversation was Dana White discussing her realization that she's been more productive during the crisis with her hair salons shut down than at any other time since she started her business 7 years ago I have been emotionally drained for years she told us and because I've been emotionally drained I have not grown my business this week's 21 hats podcast lineup features Jay goz whose businesses in Chicago include a picture frame shop artist frame service and a home furnishing store Jason home and Dana White founder and CEO of paral Boyd a chain of hair salons based in Detroit even in Good Times owning and running a business can be a lonely Pursuit our hope is that these weekly conversations will if nothing else let owners know they are not alone in facing these extraordinary challenges if you know a friend who might benefit from this conversation please share it you can subscribe wherever you get podcasts and if you do please review us and rate US it makes a big difference if you have questions or suggestions you can always email them to me my email address is L Feldman at21 hats.com this episode is called you're not human anymore you're the boss before we get started I'm here with Adam witty who is the founder and CEO of Advantage Forbes books which helps entrepreneurs write and publish their own books Adam I know you think all entrepreneurs should consider writing a book why is that a book is the most powerful marketing tool in the world it's a way for you to share your story and your company story without anyone ever feeling like they are being sold to it builds Authority it builds credibility it builds expertise for you and your business and we're recording this in the middle of this unprecedented crisis is now a good time to write a book uh Believe It or Not Lauren I would argue now is a better time probably than ever before entrepreneurs and business owners have an unprecedented amount of time on their calendar that quite frankly they did not think that they would have we are working with entrepreneurs all over the world who are using this unexpected downtime to create an asset for their business that will pay dividends for the rest of their career if someone does write a book how will they know if it's effective as a marketing tool they use a book as a sleuth marketing tool to generate new customers uh to advertise their business and ultimately to help convert uh prospects into customers and for many entrepreneurs a customer can be worth hundreds thousands even tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and so one new customer into your business can more than pay for the book uh speaking opportunities PR and media opportunities those are some of the other benefits I know a lot of entrepreneurs who've wanted to write a book and have never quite gotten around to it how do you help somebody in that situation we do our best to make it as easy and painless as possible and we do that by first pairing you with a master book planner who spends some time interviewing you and those interviews turn into a blueprint for your book then we assign a ghost writer to work with you to ask you questions about that Master book plan to interview you it's it's all done over the phone Lauren so it's super easy those interviews are then ultimately turned by the ghost riter into the manuscript of your book if someone wants to learn more where should they go we have a free copy of my best-selling book titled book the business and we're offering a discovery consultation to any 21 hats subscriber that wants to learn more Advantage family.com sl21 hats you heard him go to Advantage family.com sl21 hats to get book and to sign up for your consultation now back to the [Music] show let's get started uh Dana we haven't spoken with you in a couple of weeks what's going on at paral Boyd I've gotten the plans together for when we reopen I had a conversation with both of my well my manager and my operations manager about what that'll look like and what that means for the staff how we'll keep both our staff and guests safe um and I've been working on um the growing of peral boid which is updating the website um doing marketing as far as you know like again meeting my customers where they are um developing a product line of CBD hair growth products because there aren't really that many at all geared towards I'm sorry using what CBD which is which is a h cannabis oh yeah cannabis all right I you know I didn't it just didn't make sense to me in the context of hair what's the purpose of using it in a hair product so cannabis has a lot of great uses and so I have been doing my online research and understanding what my market needs they want their hair to be thick and they want it to grow um and there're things out there for you know Castor oils and such for growth and thickening but I wanted to kick it up a notch so I started doing my research and talking to people who know about the hemp plant um and they said Dana cannabis is the way to go or CB D um which has no THC so you can't get lifted um from CBD so what I've been doing and I've been spending time on the phone with um CBD suppliers as well as um sources of where I can get the other ingredients in bulk um for my hair care products that I'm going to use and then developing a treatment in the salon for uh hair growth and thickening based on some of the things we already do I've also been been putting together kits for Branding so that's speaking with vendors overseas to determine you know what their prices are for uh paddle brushes bobby pins hair clips everything to make uh the peral boy brand so you can get a nighttime hair care kit that includes a satin pillowcase or hair Bonnet shipped to you at home we have not gone into the product/ retail space and so I my brand is trusted women trust perly boy to come in and get their hair done and I'm hoping that when we launch these products that they will still put their trust in that brand knowing that that we can take care of them at home Dana would these kits that you're talking about be a a kind of a one-time purchase or a subscription so a little bit of both right so the first you know you you can buy a satin pillowcase or a a satin um head scarf but you may need another one right and of of course the products will run out so the hair growth oil if you still want to keep using it and the shampoo and conditioners are going to run out so you can again purchase those again um you may buy a blow dryer one time until the blow dryer dies and you can buy another one so the subscription idea was brought to me um and I'm thinking about it but I I'm really just focused on what our retail is going to do and if I'm seeing guests are repeatingly buying products I will probably turn it into a subscription for those that are interested have you thought about the pricing for these kits I have and it was funny I was on the phone with another small business owner last week and she told me that I was pricing way too low um so right now that sounds familiar Dana yeah sounds familiar yes it's a symptom so she's you know what I'm putting together is you know the cost of the CBD it's the cost of everything the cost to bottle and then once I have that price just kind of running it past some other business owners who have retail and deciding what my markup should be um which is a hefty balance between what my people will pay and the cost to reduce it I just want to not do it too low which is something I do uh and just do it at the right price well since you referred to it let's talk about that we we have spoken in the past about uh your pricing of your basic service at your hair salons as as you start to think about uh reopening have you given any more thought to uh how and when you might raise your prices for uh your salon service yes I have and the balance right now is not to do it too soon but don't leave money on the table when it comes to opening so I think that's a matter of communication with my guest first it's a matter as an owner picking a date and if I've not learned anything during covid-19 it's picking a date by putting per boy first right but not putting perly boy first to the point where your guests think that you only care about perly boy and you don't care about them so it's a matter of picking a date and communicating with my customers not that we're raising our prices as a reaction to covid-19 but raising our prices because it's not something we've done in the past seven years that we've done it and it's time so giving um them enough Headway to say and it's not a matter of months it may not even be a matter of weeks but communicating to them these were our plans and we're going to go forward with these plans on this date Jay what do you think of that um I can certainly understand why this would be a could could see seem like an awkward time to raise prices in the middle of a pandemic and an economic crisis on the other hand this might be the time when people would understand it best what do you think I don't think they need to understand it they just need to pay it and the fact of the matter is telling them we haven't raised our price in seven years kind of says it all at 2% inflation for seven years compounded that's about 15% or so that means that $40 7 years ago is now $46 so to raise your price I think would take it to $46 and then in a year from now raise it to 50 or 48 or something but there's and I'm telling you this if you if if you said to me Jay I'm gonna give you 10 seconds to blurt out something to yourself to to to the Jay from 30 years ago what would you blurt out the first thing I blur out is raise your prices because it's emotionally difficult I have be underpriced my whole career and and I sh I was growing like crazy and I should have put in up we're not talking about 20% we're talking about three four five % it's the value proposition I give a tremendous value and you're giving a tremendous value and and frankly it was a mistake not to to to raise prices a dollar every year for the L so you're making up for it it's it's it's what and you're not the only this is a this is the common entrepreneur mistake of oh my God if I raise my price I'll lose all my customers and that's just not how it works so um I don't think there's any apology needed I I think i' I haven't raised him in seven years we need to raise our prices period under story and and important in train your staff somebody's going to complain count on it oh my God Dana you see I told you Mrs Smith yesterday she really laid me out yeah we figured that into the formula someone's gonna complain like deal with it it's they gonna complain yeah sorry everything else is going up our costs keep going up it's the way it is they don't have to all be happy if here's the point if 3% of the people leave and never come back you're still way better off so count on it figure it in tell your employees we're going lose 3% of our customers okay now it's easy for Jay and me to tell you to raise your prices but it's your business and you know your customers better than anyone was that convincing Dana it was but again it's still a matter of timing and so the other component to raising our prices is we've been functioning we haven't been operating and I just believe that we need to communicate the growth and the changes that we've made before telling the guest that we're going to raise the prices even though it's just to raise the prices um what I don't want my guest to feel is if I'm getting the same old thing no there's been a lot of changes right and and that's just again it's communication it could go out in an email and then the prices can go up a week later right I just don't want to open and now prices are $50 I don't want to but then again I also don't want to open and then one month later prices are $50 right either way think it's important that I communicate with my guest who because I've kept my price the same for seven years um and give them time not a lot of time but enough time to let it sink in it may not take a lot of time it may get the email and go great there it is done why would you go from seven years of not having the stomach to raise prices to all of a sudden flicking the switch and you're going to raise them 25% I mean how as if if I was you I would take it to $46 I don't know that I'd take 25% increase I mean that does that's more than inflation you've just lost your inflation argument now like and on top of which you still have this guil thing of you got to give them more no it's called inflation you don't have to give any more everything else went up 2% a year for the last seven years so they're making 7% more everybody I mean how many people in this world would say I haven't had a raise in seven years I don't think many what does someone in your Market have to pay to get a comparable Ser I'm not sure there is a comparable service there is and there is and it's a lot more expensive than what I'd be offering even if I inflated prices like I talk to people all the time what are people paying elsewhere then $60 $70 so that's why I was going to take it to 50 and I was about to ask Jay so do you think I should not take the price to P Fe should I take it to the nice round number well if you're that under Market um I don't know maybe I that is part of the formula I didn't know that when I said that if you're that under Market um maybe that's appropriate frankly most people aren't going to do the math they don't know what inflation was and they can't do the math so they're not going to go wait a second 2% inflation for the last seven years would take it to 40 you know maybe it does make sense then the Assumption we've made throughout this entire crisis is that Dana is the one uh business in this group of business owners that can expect you know lines out the door people are going to be desperate isn't this the right time to raise prices I think it's the right time but I don't think it's the right time immediately right again I I want to be transparent with my guests and I want them to know that this was something that we had planned on before I don't want my guest to walk in and feel that they're being expected to pay more because we need to make up for covid-19 I want them to feel you know I want them to know that we are raising our prices because it's time oh and just by the way it just so happened to be at the tail end of a pandemic so that's the difference I feel if I opened tomorrow oh and by the way you guys it's now $50 now they still May pay it but I it's The Branding is important and the message to my guest is I wouldn't argue with you that waiting a month just so that's behind you and then say okay we haven't raised our prices in seven years I wouldn't argue that why do it the day you open why not wait a month to do it but I tell you something else which is critical to this and I know the picture framing business I don't know the hair salon business your margin like in framing I've had to explain to people if you raise your prices 10% you'd have to Lo lose 30% of your customers to lose any money and their eyes open up real and I show it on a whiteboard and I and like they finally get oh my God that's crazy so my question to you is what's your break even analysis on that if you raise your price to $50 you know how much you pay your people how much business would you have to lose L before you lose a dime on that a lot a lot because right off the bat that's 25% more money coming in so if you lost 20% of your customers you'd be back at even so you'd have to lose well more than 20% of your customers I mean if that doesn't say it I don't know what does yeah when we see in our slow season we only see about 4 to 600 guests a month so we'd have to lose a significant amount of guests in order for that to happen and I but here's the thing I don't think we're going I don't think the pricing is what's going to turn people away I think if we're not you know doing with our service standard if we're not you know sure taking care of our guests and then asking them to pay then it's an issue and so for me I want to let guests know that because of this pandemic we're operating differently now that you're you know how we're operating you have to have a face mask you we know we're only letting so many people in the salon at a time now that we're operating differently this is what is next shortly thereafter and again the picture was painted for me because you know initially I was like oh we're not going to raise our prices to the fall but then I said well you know the picture was painted to me by Lauren Dana you know you're leaving a lot of money on the table if you don't you know in some way take advantage of the volume that you're going to see I'm not even sure that the phrase leaving money on the tables apprpriate you're losing money that's different this isn't like oh you could make more no no you're going to lose money is the reality it's a matter of you're going to dig yourself a deeper hole so you're GNA have happy customers well what would be the point of having happy customers when you're going broke I mean it it the two thing and let me ask you this question because I hear this all the time how did the customer turn into a guest that's what I want to know I want to ask Target who I think started that nonsense guest when I'm a guest somewhere I get everything for free when I'm a guest at someone's house I don't pay for anything how what is what is wrong with calling someone a customer is that a dirty word now that's what I want to ask you no so my I the clients no I use the word guest because per Boyd is the the cultural icon in the salon and it was the way she treated people the guest comes from how you will be treated when you come in here right now it's a business but in this business we will treat you as a guest sometimes when you treat uh when it's like oh you're a CL um it I think it makes it very individualized meaning for The Stylist oh this is my client but when you are a guest of peral void you're a part of this club and there's a way you will be treated your coat will be put on for you when you leave there's a call you will expect so I say guest because there we treat them like we would as if in our home do you think that the the person that goes into to uh Target and buys the tube of toothpaste do you think they're a guest or do you think they're a customer I think they're a customer thank you that's all I right you will go into Target and not be seen all of that suggests to me that you should raate you should send out an email tomorrow saying you're going to raise your prices to $50 and then you should do it from day one because your customers are used to being treated like guests they obviously trust you this is a this is a time of a Health crisis and they're going to be willing to come into your store and trust that you're doing everything right and and they're going to be so happy to have your service back after not being able to come for several months that that $10 I I think they're going to be very happy to pay it I have a confession I am afraid to raise my prices because I'm focusing on the naysayer customers I'm focusing on a very integral conversation I had with the head of a organization that is slated to help business owners and it was very it was a very tough conversation um it included gossip it it left it hurt me and it took the wind out of my sale and I am reluctant or I've I've been reluctant to raise my prices because that conversation with her and the conversation with other not a lot of guests but I haven't focused enough on the guests that love us especially the ones that have told me girl yeah raise your prices I used to get my hair done for $40 back in college person wait the person that's complaining about let's just this person do they work in a non-for-profit do they are they business people they work at a at a federal government okay same thing okay how nice for people who either work for non-for-profits or the federal government to start telling business people how they should operate how nice like they've ever had to make payroll on Friday so I would say this is your ailles heel yeah my heal totally and I'm telling you after 20 years of speaking to frame shop owners I see people who who have no money who are broke who have let the customer that one out of 10 customer that just rips on them about the price I have watched them ruin their entire life savings putting kids through college retirement I have seen people be slaves to that for 20 years because they've got in their head Mrs Smith who said oh my God that's too much money and when I show them the math of it it's like they get released and they I swear to God they come back to me a year later and say oh my God I want to thank you a year ago I owed $10,000 in debt and now I paid everything off and I doubled my income thank you that's it happens all the time because someone needs to tell them stop listening to that one out of 10 10 this is this is it like all of the you know we've been speaking about Co on the podcast and the growth of business owners and the growth with me for weeks but my one hurdle to get over is I have been emotionally drained for years because I've been emotionally drained I have not grown my business I've done more during this time to grow peral boy than I have in the years that I've been working it's that I was officially open open Dana when you say that you've done more you're talking about during the crisis while your Shop's been shut down you've done more and you're referring to you're you're thinking about how the salon's going to uh operate when you reopen and and the kits and the products is that what you're absolutely and I'm like Dana what happened why have you done more work now than before because you got a chance to breathe I've had a chance to breathe and I'm no longer tied to the call or the text message you get saying I know my job is to be to help minority businesses grow but I stopped coming to your salon for months and there are people around me who ask me you don't still go there do you that's a text and a phone call right and that from her that really hurt because they had no problem showcasing me in front of government officials they had no problem showcasing me you know at the Congressional Black Caucus but to hear that we've made we've done so much work to be better after all we've been through and then when I said hey we've we've made changes since you you haven't seen us since September we made changes in August that you started see in the business in October well what efforts are you making to communicate that to your guest and then I'm and you're getting it from your staff you know well Dana's a business owner she should be able to pay me through this crisis well Dana doesn't care I have my flaw has been I have not communicated with my customers I have not communicated with my staff as well as I could because I have been emotionally protecting myself I feel your pain I would imagine that that that text that email that conversation was extremely upsetting and and I'm sure you are accepting responsibility Pro for at least part of it the communication piece when you get to the end and you've done everything right with a noble cost it's like you know what there's going to be some people that want to rag on you you know what here's the best thing that happened to me in all the years of me doing speeches at the picture frame show I got a uh I went on an online thing and one of the chat rooms and this guy says I went to Jay Go's seminar and I'll give it to you know I'll admit he's a successful guy and he's built a successful business but he is so arrogant and condescending I stormed out of the class and my first reaction was wow I don't I didn't think I was coming off like that and I thought more about it I had that one comment and had another 40 comments because I get the the things afterward of the responses this was the thing I ever went to thank you so much blah blah blah and I realized I probably reminded him of his father or something and like you know sorry but like and I said to myself what could I have said that was so offensive and I figured it out eventually this is equivalent to saying you have an ugly baby when you tell a frame store owner that you know you don't need 2,000 Corner samples in your store it's a waste of space that's like saying you got an ugly baby now what's the surprise ending to the story he's out of business sum it up what's the message in that for for Dana the message in that is you can't let the one or two or three people get in your head space and and you know it there's if there's anything to what there listen it certainly made me think about it and I did I am more careful now of trying you know make you know I am a little careful now of of don't sound arrogant like you must not know what you're doing and I it helped a little bit but in general what the hell was that he stormed out mad but in your case the person that complain is it a fellow business owner no she works for the federal government oh but even even and that's the thing I've had F you know fellow business owners and that makes it worse when they'll say I'm not impressed with your receptionist as if impressing you as a kpi right as if impressing you well now there I got to take a line though I gotta tell you there's probably something wrong with your receptionist I they're trying to be kind to you the receptionist probably has an attitude or something why would someone say that to you but that's what I'm saying come to me with a specific instance don't come to me well I'm not impressed well tell me what happened did you ask him what happened yes and then it was also the end of the text message oh and by the way how's that expansion going and it wasn't a question it was a she ended it with a period And I was just like you know what wow yeah and so that's I here's my my in in short I'm saying negativity can be very negative and I've yet to I'm focusing on the people that have been negative which I believe that have that that have been hurtful which I know to have been hurtful and not productive I I would get rid of the word negativity and put it in two buckets are they being critical to give you something you're doing wrong do you could do better or are they attacking you those are two different things are they and in some cases it sounds like they're attacking you I get that I mean I don't think it's attacking it's nasty it's it's I'm trying to help you I I want to help you but I'm actually I I I need to express my anger right when I'm trying to help someone it's not a about how it made me feel it's about speaking with that business owner about things that may need to be improved and here is how I can help you right can I help right I just I've been focusing on the people that are maybe not even angry with me but just angry in some way and they have they've laid it at my feet and Dana have said okay I'll take it on and during this time of Co I have been in a space where I've had to take it on and I've been so productive and my my Achilles heel and my flaw and my confession is I have not communicated with my staff because the messages I've been getting back are why aren't you doing more to help me in my situation I have not why aren't you paying for me through this time that's the one thing and the second thing is I have not communicated with my guest because it was well I didn't get the email well why aren't you doing this well why it's it's a lot of and and here's the thing no I haven't been sick thank God but it's when you're a business owner covid you're nothing affects you so the people who have been critical did it ever occur to you that something may have happened right did it ever occur to you that she might have been dealing with things you know wait wait I have to give you the greatest advice anyone have I put this in the top five yes I had a i this is my first she's she retired my first real life regular fulltime she was my my controller like like not a kid not A5 $10 $15 an hour person like my first professional person so she's working here for six months or a year I'm all of I'm probably you're no I'm younger than you are at this point I'm probably 32 or something and something happened I don't remember specifically and I said to her like boy did anyone ever think about how I feel about that you know blah BL blah and she turned to me and she said the most poignant thing ever she goes Jay everybody knows that the boss isn't a human right and that was the most poignant and I've never forgotten that and I'm telling you get over it they're not g treat you you're not you're not a human anymore you're the boss deal with it I'm the I'm the I'm the owner I'm the owner you're the owner it's okay it's tons of press you are not human yes and it's okay I'm not mad about it in bitter whatsoever I've accepted like okay I get it now you're the boss that's part of figuring out you're the boss it's okay but knowing that I am I am human I have to find a better way I I can't do what I've been doing I cannot not communicate and I have to find a way to the middle ground between taking too much in on myself and not communicating right but then also listening to the positive critiques or the critiques that are helpful versus the critiques that are just meant to dump on you right and so I'm trying to find that middle ground now I have great ideas communicate with everybody and and will'll be doing so because I have to instead of looking for the middle ground this is simply a case of you need to stop taking things personally you just need to whatever they say there's probably something to it I believe the customer is usually right if the customer made a comment about your receptionist there's probably a problem with your receptionist so instead of taking it personally and saying and the other thing that has saved my head and I've helped lots of employees you know the employed in the back crying because somebody just dumped on them I've had it certainly I always tell them why don't we take this approach whoever just dumped on you why don't you just assume they just found out their mother's dying or that they just found out they've got a like let's give them all a benefit of the doubt they're having a really bad day and they took it out on you so let's not take it personally let's not get mad let's listen to the criticism and say really what did my recep can you give me some some can you tell me specifically what my reception is so I can understand and do something about it because there's probably something to it and then to your other point there are some people that are having a bad day and they just read about you and they're jealous or they're pissed or whatever like yeah whatever I've I've had the you know I I have the benefit of doing this for many years and I finally have I I've come to terms with all this stuff and it's okay it doesn't have to make you crazy Jay let's uh let's give Dana a little bit of a break here what's going on with uh with Jason home these days well I open because the state of Illinois says if you sell plants and landscapers bu the plant you can open well I have a you know I have a legitimate 5 6,000 ft of plants that have come in outside in my outdoor lot we sell some lands papers du buy so we opened and the C customers are extremely happy they were open and they're all wearing masks and I've had two two episodes since I opened you told us about one I think where the the Yelp review I have a new one this one's this one's better uh my manager sitting there on the phone I happen to walk in yeah yeah we're open well and I can see the tone of the conversation someone's complain you know what the owner standing right here let me give them to you so no problem he hands me the phone she tells me your name I give her credit the woman says this is so and so I have to tell you I just can't believe you opened up your furniture store well I said we sell PL I know but it's a loophole that's just not right and I'm not the only one that feel Dana does this sound familiar I'm not the only one that feels this way and I can't believe you're opening up all these other store You're the Only Furniture store in the city of Chicago that's open and and and and then finally she reveals which I also respect she goes she owns a small gift shop two blocks away and she's closed and it's not fair yeah and I said wait how long have you been open how long have you been business just nine years I said okay let me give you the 42-year perspective of things do you still think the world is fair really I know someone that died of cancer last year was the nicest person I knew you think the world is fair really and then you could hear well yeah I go I should worry about the multi-billion dollar uh competitor I have that's got that that that's owned by a German company I'm trying to keep in business take care of my employees like I got to tell you I'm following the law and so meanwhile this is really the important entrepreneur part I go let me ask you a question did you get PPP money well my husband applied for it I'm waiting but but it's just a loan I said no no it's not just a loan if you use it properly it will turn into a grant you don't have to pay it back um did you go for unemployment well well no I said well you've been paying unemployment in for years why wouldn't you go for unemployment so by the end of the conversation I was her advisor and she wants to come by and have lunch but this shows you how people go broke instead of taking care of business instead of going for the PPP thing and and going for unemployment she's using her time to call me up and whine that I'm open and she isn't and I'm not making any apologies yeah I'm open and we're wearing masks and we're cleaning everything how's business it's been okay and it's been okay we're bringing in decent business the customers are thrilled to be here have you brought back all your employees who normally work in the home store yes they're all working some were hesitant everybody came back but I had to make a line say look at if they don't want to come back I'm not you know it's a free country they don't need to come back to work they can they can go work somewhere else they cannot work I there's a line here that and I certainly am not suggesting everybody should be having parties and not wearing masks and taking guns and going down to the city hall I I'm not saying that there's a point where if somebody's petrified to leave their house I'm really sorry that's a personal choice of theirs I can't keep this job open forever for them I can't and that hasn't turned into a case but I was prepared if it did at some point people need to come back to work are you at that point I think we decided we'll give it till the end of the month when the whole state is was officially open but if somebody on June 1st says they're not coming back to work I'd have to say um thank you for your years of service but we're going to have to replace you I actually have an obligation to customers to have a human being working here to take care of them I can't I can't accommodate would you do that with with a an employee that you had for 10 years and really liked well what are my choices not have anyone work here now if you let me make it a better question for you Jay if they were over 60 and uh okay I I I do have a guy who's who's my oldest employee next to me after me if he wants another couple weeks I'll absolutely work with him on it but um and he's been with me for since 1986 so it's not a black and white thing if he has a legitimate thing or if they got a uh a heart condition I I certainly will will it's not black and white but if I got some someone who's 32 years old who's afraid to leave the house that doesn't have a medical condition doesn't live with an old person I what am I going to do just okay everybody you just say home I'll take care of the customers all myself I mean there's a point to where you gota you got to take care of business so luckily I haven't had the deal with that um so does that mean taking them off unemployment if they taken everybody off unemployment I got the PPP money everybody's off unemployment now and I will tell you I have lots of employees this was the lottery for them you know if you make 40 Grand a year and you got Illinois if you got your health your your unemployment insurance and then you got the extra hit from the government this little thing has just made them about 4,000 bucks they got another 600 bucks a you know they they come out just fine um and and I don't begrudge I'm like whatever that's all true but I do it can put an employee in a difficult position you know the employee you just described who's deciding whether to come back or not and there might be extenuating circumstances kids at home older parents people to care for having to travel on public transportation what whatever it might be that person is going to lose unemployment if you offer the job and they turn it down well that doesn't mean that I would that doesn't mean I would go ahead and contest the unemployment if that was the case I wouldn't contesting unemployment I I just it hasn't happened but I if I had somebody working here for 10 years and said listen I just can't I I'm I wouldn't I would say stay on unemployment I you know um but but that doesn't mean I don't have to replace them I I need employees I I mean I can't run the place on on good wishes uh just so you know I've had the opposite experience I've had lovely notes and people extremely happy that I didn't have to but I it's the least I can do for them we've paid people that that for whatever reason didn't get unemployment filed too late we've we've tried to make everybody whole and we've succeeded and um at some point I told my key management staff look at here's the reality I don't need to pay if everybody got unemployment plus some extra money I don't need to give them more money I mean I'm going to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end of the day I'm the only one losing to this whole deal and I'm not complaining about it but it just is what it is um my employees have come out just fine thanks to the PPP and thank you government I mean it was a lifesaver so um I've got 110 people I haven't had one bad one bad any I had one disappointing conversation with a with an employee not one um and I and I'm here to tell you part of that is I have good employees I've worked really hard at that for 40 years I I I'm more careful who I hire now if they're the wrong people if they don't fit here they're not here anymore I've got nothing but positive things from all of them so um I haven't had one bad I haven't had one ugly anything with anybody that works for me and the only thing from the customers is the The Jerk doctor that needed to go yel about how we asked them to wear a mask you know even the lady that called me she's my best friend now so are you gonna have lunch with her sure not lately not until lunch is okay bad for I understood where she was coming from I understood where she was coming from but you know I I think I convinced her by the end like look at it is what it is and I to to go ahead and throw on me that that I'm a bad person I'm working the system and I should be stay close because everyone else's that's just prosterus I mean I'm well it is a loophole but I I agree with you a loophole it's a pretty big loophole if you sell plant how about Home Depot how about Costco they're all selling furniture all because Home Depot sell stuff to fix your your heater you know I mean it's not it's it's any of these big businesses they're selling other stuff than the stuff that is that is essential so uh I'm just saying if if you didn't sell plants you wouldn't be able to open the home store true but I do sell plants that's the point you know you're kind of arguing if she sold plants she'd probably open her store too and I think that's a pretty good argument that's what I said to her and I go you know what you want me to send over some plant you can open and she goes oh well that would be hypocritical but she was thinking about it and then and then I thought wait that won't work because you need to s the landscapers I forgot but oh she was thinking about though I I actually said it to her I go I can assure you if you were selling plant my guess is you'd be it wasn't a it wasn't an adversarial conversation it was a business owner to business owner conversation and I totally respected and appreciated she admitted who she was and gave me her name so I it was I'm used to dealing with customers it was a pleasant it was a very pleasant conversation it's a lot of judgment you know that's what I have to do better at shielding myself from I see it on Facebook business owners judging you know petmart because they're dog they're grooming dogs because their business is considered essential um and that service is not but because they're open they can do it and so there's just a lot of judgment going around and it's tough we're going to have to wrap up but Jay let me ask you this I I was really intrigued by what Dana said about how uh this crisis has finally given her a chance to breathe a little bit and to think about her business and to work on work on it in a way that she hasn't been able to uh previously um that seems like I think there's such an important lesson in that um and I'm just curious for you you've had downtime as well obviously you're in a very different position you you've been in business uh much longer your businesses are much more mature but but has have you got anything out of this period absolutely this has disrupted the market and Now's the Time to try to make something positive out it three things number one there's going to be competitors that are going to go out of business there's going to be competitors that stop giving service because they're on defense and they didn't bring people back or they they don't want to put enough inventory and their service is going to deteriorate I'm suggesting take this time fix up your website some more put some more energy into your website people are going to be looking for a new vendor that's one number two there's going to be some key employees out there that got laid off that aren't happy with the way their boss treated them this might be an opportunity to pick up an employee who might not have even thought of working for you before and maybe it's time to put an ad in out there and look for them or call someone that you've had conversations with there's going to be there's absolutely an opportunity to pick up some people and three what a great opportunity to buy real estate right now the interest rates are like mind bogging cheap and there's B and there's building owners that want to go hide under the table and get rid of their property and that's what I did in 2008 I bought a huge building for a cheap price and you know what I gotta tell you I did the guy a favor I I got them off the hook it worked for everybody if you've been thinking about buying real estate I know this is counterintuitive now might be the time to do it because it's on sale and uh and the interest rates are dirt cheap and SBA Loans are the greatest thing ever the government has ever done SBA real estate loans in particular you're referring to yeah for a five uh uh 504 loans where they they that the bank takes part of it the SBA takes part of it it's a tremendous thing and um so Now's the Time I'm suggesting there's a point to where you got to get off defense and got an offense if you can I think if you can is important there are a lot of people who are just trying to make it till tomorrow yeah I understand that I'm just saying if you can but but in some cases you could go fix your website up I mean that doesn't just change the copy change what's on there that doesn't cost any money I think everybody can at least work on their website I don't think anybody most people don't think they have a 10 website they'd say well it's not bad but I'm working on it well now it's the time to really work on it you know put some more energy to it that's what I'm doing right now I'm working on my website but I will say that I I have to push back on you a little bit Jay because it working on a website is free if you know what you're doing right and for me working on my website isn't going to be free free though writing the copy free I yeah the content is free like you are you suggesting that I'm coming off arrogant and condescending no I'm not at all certainly you're right if you want to redo your whole website that's a whole other animal but I'm saying I'm talking about just changing some of the copy on it and doing the light stuff but you're right if you want to really do redo it that's going to cost some money but most people can can go work on I I go on some websites and I see their blog post is from 2017 like it doesn't look good if nothing else take the date off seriously if nothing else just take the date off I mean I read websites all the time I think to myself wow you put that on your website I mean stuff that just doesn't have any relevance as why I want to do business with you Dana last question did this conversation make you feel better or worse much better um I just have been focusing on the wrong thing I had the opportunity to speak with a business consultant here in Detroit Nam he said the same thing you're focusing on the wrong thing and I think even though I know I'm focusing on it I've been hurt you know I don't mean to sound like a wuss but I've been I've been hurt and I've been productive by not being as exposed to that hurt and I need to you know put my big girls on and be probably pleasantly surprised at that people will respond to me better right that once I put myself out there but I've been baby steps to putting myself out there because I've been hurting this conversation has again reiterated to me hey you got to do what you got to do you're a business owner and since I'm not arrogant and condescending I absolutely can appreciate how painful that must have been to have women that you respected that have been helpful rip into you because I've never had that I can't ever think of a situation where I've been in that situation and you're getting a lot more PR than I got when I was at that stage so yeah you have absolutely been vulnerable but I'm tell telling you it's it's it's about just saying to yourself you know what I'm just trying to do a good job and take care of my clients take care or your guests excuse me take care of my guests take care of my employees and just shake it off and say okay part of the program and dealing with it and I think you're not think I know you're coming to that so good for you yeah and the pricing will go up the pricing will go up all right that's what we wanted to hear my thanks to Dana White and Jay goz once again you guys have kept it real and shared things that you very rarely hear business owners share I really appreciate it thank you for taking the time thanks for listening everybody this episode was produced by Jess thubron founder of blank word Productions remember we started the 21 hats podcast to help business owners feel a little less isolated to let them know they aren't the only ones fighting these battles if you got something out of this conversation please help us reach more people tell a friend subscribe and review us wherever you get your podcasts follow us on Twitter at 21h hats and let me know if you have a question or a comment or a topic you'd like us to cover my email address is L Feldman 21h hats.com see you next time [Music]