10+ Acquisitions to CEO of $450 Million Public Company Top M&E Entrepreneur: Iggy Domagalski

Welcome to the top M&A's entrepreneurs. This episode is brought to you by the Deal Flow System, and if you like this content, make sure you subscribe down below. Today, my guest is Iggy Damma Galasski. Iggy has made a number of acquisitions and now runs a company called Wajax, which is uh listed on the TSX. With a market cap of over $450 million. Welcome, Iggy. Thanks, John. I appreciate you having me on the show. All right, so let's go back and I would like to do this like uh you are Luke Skywalker and you get this call to adventure. Where, how did you start? You know, um, I, I've always loved business. I always was drawn to it. I, uh, I, I think about my, my family, my parents were entrepreneurs, uh, we were, we were immigrants to Canada, uh, still live in Canada, and, uh, you know, when you're, when you're an immigrant, sometimes all the wonderful job opportunities aren't available to you so you have to create them yourself. And where were you where would you immigrate from? Uh, I was born in Poland, Poland, and then, and then we, uh, we immigrated to Winnipeg, which is where I lived for about 25 years with my folks. My wife's half Polish, yeah, wonderful. So my kids are Polish, Scottish, yeah, nice, nice. Yeah, um, but yeah, we, we ended up in Winnipeg and, uh, both my parents were engineers, but, uh, the degrees, you know, they don't really transfer over, uh, so well. So they, they, they began their entrepreneurial journey. So that was just kind of around the, you know, around the dinner table. It was, it was business and they owned, uh, they owned retail stores, so, uh, myself and my sister would often be in those stores. So we kind of got to see it all unfolding and Um, I, I guess that's where I got my, my taste for it and, and kind of, kind of liked it. Uh, actually when I was 12, I started a small little online business kind of reselling this some software, and, uh, what kind of software was it? Uh, it was, it was just the this freeware that was available to be to be resold and I mean back in those days, geez, I'm dating myself here, but it was like a a bulletin board service where it was all done through dial up internet and people I had this CD-ROM that had software on it and people could dial it from their computer. Uh, see that they could send me a check for $25 which they would mail to me and then after I got the check, I would give them access to this. I, I, I love those stories. I love those stories. I used to go user groups in Silicon Valley a long time ago and they bring boxes of CDs they actually exchanged, like. This was before Bill Gates said, hey, no, no, no. Every piece of copy is, uh, every software is uh is worth money. Yeah. Yeah, so, uh, so I, I got in before the, before the Bill Gates software thing, so, uh, so I was, was able to make a, you know, I mean, I was a 12 year old kid, so I didn't make that much money, but, uh, but certainly enjoyed doing that, uh, and then just kind of had some entrepreneurial ventures as I, as I grew up at a painting company and a couple other small businesses. Uh, and then I went to, went, went to business school, uh, and then I actually ended up going to work for a fairly large corporation, um, kind of in a rotational program. I got to see all the different elements of the business from, uh, from it, it was a an investment fund, uh, company. Yeah, what kind of, what kind of company was this? It was it an investment banking company or uh it was like a mutual fund company. Um, yeah, so, so I got a chance to work on the trading floor, got a chance to work in sales, in training, and distribution and corporate planning. So I got a chance to see a lot of it. Uh, and I liked all those aspects, and it was, and it was a really fun ride. Uh, I had a great mentor over there who ended up leaving that company to start a new company, so I, I went along with him. We started another financial company, uh, and then did that for a couple of years, uh, and then Same guy said that he wanted to move west, which is where he was from, and, uh, and he wanted to go buy a bunch of small and medium sized companies and asked if I wanted to come along. Uh, I said, sure, but I have no money, and uh, but, um, but you know, I was willing to put in just a whole pile of sweat equity. And uh and that's kind of how our journey began. And did he give you, uh, when sweat equity, did he give you equity for your efforts? Yeah, yeah, and then, and then over the years we were able to buy more and earn more and uh and uh and then, and then through the years we we bought a bunch of other companies, um, so that starts, I guess that started. About 16 years ago. Uh, and, uh, and we both moved from Winnipeg out west. Um, I ended up in Vancouver. He ended up in Calgary. So I was running, uh, one of our companies out in Vancouver. He was, uh, he was running one in Calgary. Um, the one in, uh, in Calgary was growing really quickly, and so I found, uh, someone to replace me in Vancouver and ended up moving to Calgary. Uh, and then, um, yeah, then we kind of just got busy with buying other companies. We did a bunch of startups, uh, so we did about 10 startups, um. Some made it a small number made it and and and a lot failed, as is the case with startups. And uh and then we bought over the years about 10 companies. 10 companies. What what are the, what's the makeup of those companies? What do they look like? It was like boring industry, niche, uh, manufacturing or food or what and the size. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, good question. So most of them were, uh, in industrial products and kind of the distribution and service space. Uh, that's when Uh, when my, when my partner and I came from Winnipeg, we came from, it was a distribution business. I mean, that, you know, the product that we manufacture was a mutual fund, but it's the same thing as if you're still selling a product that you made and, and, you know, convincing people that it's a good thing to buy. So, uh, so, so we like the distribution business, distribution of the actual product didn't really matter that much to us. We just wanted, uh, a good business, uh, and a good market that had good products or services. And uh and so we there's actually quite a few of those out there that you're able to find. Um, all the businesses that we bought were fairly niche players, you know, selling a, a fairly technical product, and neither, neither my partner nor I were particularly technical in the industrial equipment space, but technical meaning it was, it's kind of a software related business or, uh, technical meaning is just that it's, um, you know that that there is. You know, there's some engineering and math behind figuring out which exact product you need for your application. And, uh, and you really got to get that right because often it's going on like a process kind of application. So there might be like high pressure gas or something that this thing is controlling and, uh, so you can't really screw that up, otherwise things blow up. And so, so that, that's kind of what I mean by the, the technical nature of it. And neither him or I knew anything about that. But, uh, but we knew that if we were buying these companies that they would. full of really smart people that knew how to do that and then that it was more our job, you know, to work on things like the culture of the company, the brand, uh, finding new growth opportunities in the company and just and just generally growing it and also acquiring other companies to bolt on so that we can make the, make the bigger. Were these off-market deals or on market, you know, listed on the site or something, or do you just approach them directly? Uh, it was, it was a little bit of everything. That's a good question, John. Um, you know, we were in some cases, you know, they were listed on a, on a kind of a brokerage listing service. Uh, some of the, you know, as we were getting into it, those were the first ones that we found just because, you know, we weren't really tapped into the industry yet. Um, but once we got tapped into the industry, most of the ones that we found ended up being word of mouth somehow, um, and initially most of the ones that we bought were quite small, you know, um. Maybe 10 employees or 5 employees or 15 employees of doing 10 million bucks of revenue kind of those kind of companies um and then and then over the years we were able to, to afford a few bigger ones, but how did you how did you pay for those? Was it uh bring your own money, uh, split of like some equity split of seller financing, split up some bank financing? Uh, that's exactly what it was. Yeah, it was, it was our own money. It was bank financing and it was vendor notes, uh, for the, for the most part. Uh, we never brought in any kind of external equity, so we never brought in, uh, private equity or or really other investors. We always viewed equity to be kind of the gold piece that we that we really didn't want to to dilute. Uh, we, we were happy to dilute with the management team. Um, and, and we, and we were usually erred on the generosity side when, when, uh, when, when doing, um, you know, equity offerings for our management, but we really tried not to bring in external investors if we didn't need to and, and, and we and we never needed to uh along the way, um, so the banks, we were, you know, we were like doing a pretty good job of running the businesses and um. We, I mean, I don't understand tech, so I, you know, like you know like tech type businesses where you can, you know, run a business and continuously lose money and it doesn't really matter that that that it's such a foreign concept to me like that would keep me up over every night. It it really would and so all the businesses that we always ran were profitable and they were, you know, they were, we, you know, we thought about things like cash flow and profitability and what the balance sheet looks like. And you know what will growth projections look like and making sure that we had the right working capital. So those were things that we thought of all the time, uh, and our banking partners saw that and they saw that we had, you know, a good uh a good business that was growing, that was profitable, so they were pretty comfortable, uh, lending us money throughout the years, um, so, so it was it actually getting access to bank financing was never really a problem, um, even even in the, even when it was more challenging times, um, we had Kind of taught us the importance of having really good banking relationships, like actually having a good relationship with the actual banker, like that person. Um, when did you start that? Before you needed the money and say, hey, look, here's what we're gonna do. Here's our pitch deck, or our investment thesis, uh, when we come across a deal, we'll do it, or did you wait until you had a deal with an LOI? Uh, we, we waited until we had some type of deal, um. We didn't really think there was too much value in starting a relationship on a on a hypothetical situation. Um, so, so we we started the relationship when we did have a deal, we have, you know, we were kind of almost military like in our in our in our packages that we would present to the bank and you know it was really, really thought through it I every little piece of information that they could ever want, um. And so the that that initial ask for money was pretty easy, um, and when you're buying an established business, you know, that's been around for a decade that's fairly consistent, um, it's actually a pretty safe investment for a bank like that that is a way safer bet for a bank than giving you a bunch of money for a startup, um, to buy an existing. Business is, uh, like there, there is a lot of money out there available for that very easily and very cheap. Um, it's, it's a, it's a really easy source of financing. So, so that's kind of when our relationship started when we, when we, when we had a business to buy. And then, uh, and then, you know, the relationship evolved over the years. We spent a lot of time with them, really kept them up to date. on our business, uh, when we had big growth opportunities, uh, which we did a few times during a downturn, like, uh, during, during the financial crisis, kind of 0809 when, you know, when the world was falling apart, we had an opportunity to almost double our business uh by taking on a new product line, hiring a bunch of people, like doubling our headcount. And uh so we needed to go to the bank and say, hey, I know the world's falling apart here, but this opportunity is here. We've done a good job for, you know, market conditions notwithstanding, we think this is the right thing to do, but we need some cash. And, and yeah, there was, there was no problem. I buy that product or did you, did Uh, did they say, hey, look, we need to find a home for it, because I'm just curious how you found that opportunity in, you know, all the dust that was settling in 2008, 2009. Yeah, it was, uh, so there was a, as a distributor, um, we sold products that other manufacturers made and, and there was, there was a local competitor distributor, um, who had, who had lost the product line, a really, really wonderful product line, and, and we have the opportunity to take on that product line. So, so the investment on our end was, you know, we had to hire. Whole bunch of people so that we have the technical skills and the service people and the sales people to be able to actually run that business. Uh, and then we had to invest in some inventory to make sure that we had actually had the product on the shelf and then we had to invest in some capital assets so that we had, you know, the appropriate testing equipment and all the, all the tools and everything that our team needed to, you know, to, to deliver the product and all the related services. So it worked out. It was, it was wonderful. That was, that was a great kind of kickstart for one of our companies and um. You know, in the middle of a financial crisis, it was pretty cool and it worked you're making money in when everybody else is losing their homes, you're like, yeah, yeah. So it was a it was a, that was, that was a that was a fun time. So how did you, how big did you grow the business? I mean, did it double in the size, uh, or? Uh, we, we, no, we grew quite a bit. Uh, when we took it over, uh, our, our kind of main one where we kind of amalgamated a few, it was doing 8 million in revenue when we, when we bought it in 2006 and then we grew it up to close to 200 million. So it was, uh, yeah, so it was. That's a pretty good opportunity that the banks like. Yeah, yeah, so we, it was, it was, it was good growth. We kind of did the math and we grew it at uh about 28% annual growth rate like for, for a dozen years. So it was uh it was, it was, it was, it was, it was hard to keep it, you know, on the rails. I guess that's a fast growth company. You're growing almost 30% every single year, um, and, and not every year is that good, so that means some years we're less than some years we even more than that, so some years 50%. Um, and, and that's for, you know, you can do that for a short period of time, but we did that for a dozen years. How are you? Were you working around the clock, or was it? I would say it was pretty busy but uh not around the clock, no. Um I mean we all we all put in long hours, but I think we're all able to maintain a a decent amount of um work life balance, I think. Uh, I think, I think I've I've gotten better at the work-life balance over the years. Uh, certainly there were times when it was more intense, uh, but Yeah, I think our kind of uh really believing in that that family and health are your number one priority. That's always been the mantra of our of our of our management team. Uh, we've we've pushed that to our people and, and as much as we can to ourselves as well. Yeah. This, the relationship with your mentor, it's kind of like the Obi-Wan Kenobi. I mean, how do you guys get along? Was he just teaching you everything you knew or was it a, you know, fifty-fifty kind of level playing field? Um, I So, so he was I mean he was definitely the mentor in the relationship. So he's, he's 20 years older than me, and I already had, you know, a number of really interesting careers before I had even met him. Um, so, uh, so yeah, so he's, he's been an incredible mentor to me. He still is to this day, um, and you know, we talk all the time and I, you know, bounce ideas off him and get his feedback on things. Uh, where I think we were really good for each other as we balanced each other out, so we're like most people, you know, we're two very different people, we're not exactly the same. Um, I would say that he was more, uh, he was more of the gas pedal and, uh, and, and you know like I would be a little bit more analytical on things. So, so I think that combination really helped us out, you know, it, uh, you know, his, his gas pedal, you know, pushed me harder and, uh, and, and my kind of more analytical mind helped, uh, helped him think through ideas a little bit more before we, before we executed on something that might not have been the right decision. So so I think we were uh we were really good. Uh, team for a long time, for over 20 years, um, we worked together and, and we still do work together, um, but we have this, uh, this main company that we were that we were running called Tundra Process Solutions. That's the one that we grew up to about 200 million, um, and then during the pandemic we, we sold it, uh, we sold it to a larger company called Wajax, um, so Tundra was a, was a a private. A Canadian company and Wajack is a publicly traded company, and so they they came along and said, hey, you know, it's no COVID is a weird time, but maybe it's something good can come of a weird time and uh and we came to a deal, kind of an agreement on the deal and the terms pretty quick, took about 6 months to do the due diligence. And then in January of 2021 we kind of inked the whole deal and and it was done um and and then at that time uh my mentor, his name is Mike, uh, he, he retired out of the business, so he was, he was out of tundra and and that was that was his last kind of ride. Yeah, that was, well, no, as it turns out that was, that was his last ride with. Tundra, so he was, he, he wanted to, it was the largest holding and you know he wanted to go do some uh philanthropic things and so he, so he, he exited out of that one, but he has uh he has 5 or 6 other businesses too that uh that he still actively runs and I'm a I'm a small part of uh of some of those, uh, so we still work together just, uh, just not on a full-time basis so we so we we definitely still spend time together. And um yeah, and then the previous um CEO of Ajax was retiring and uh you know, he asked if I wanted to put my name in the hat to be considered for the role, and I said sure and went through that whole uh long process which is a You know that the, the process of how a board chooses a new CEO for a publicly traded company. The whole board and everything, yeah, and the shareholder vote, etc. yeah, yeah, exactly. So you can fill up a whole podcast just talking about that process, which is a very interesting process in itself and it takes a really long waiting by the phone all the time like do I really want this, you know, have to go through all this to get this. Uh, I don't know, probably 7 or so months for the whole process to play itself through. Um, it, it was a really good process. I wanted to go through it because, uh, they hired a firm to, to kind of do the evaluation of all the candidates, internal and external, and it's basically, you know, the most deep 360 review that you've ever had on yourself. And they, and they promised that regardless of the result of what happened with Search that um they would present all of their findings back to me. I thought, well, I'm a, I'm kind of a sucker for professional and personal development. So, you know, this is, it wasn't cheap to do it. And so I thought, well, if I get this really wonderful review of myself and it helps me identify some blind spots that I have, that's worth it for me. What were the blind spots that, that, uh, surprised you? That somebody else can see that, you know, it's just a blind spot. Yeah, um, you know, one of the, the ones that was a little bit surprising, but now that You know, when somebody tells you something and it's a surprise at first, but then when you really think about it, it's obvious. I, I, I had, I had an aha moment with that and uh and for me that aha moment is that, you know, I'm like off the scales I lead with trust. So, uh, so I'm not, I'm not the person that says, you know, you have to earn my trust and that's that's finally when I'll trust you. I'll trust you. Implicitly until you give me reason to distrust you. Yeah, exactly. So I start with trust until you prove me wrong, uh, you know, which, and, and so for me that means. Um, ultimately, I probably give people more chances than than others would, um, and so, so that that's. Was that a negative and such that if you hired somebody, you took too long to fire them? Is that what they were trying to get at or or or product line that didn't work and you kept trying it or what? I don't. I, I think that can be one of the, one of the negatives of of being too trusting, um. You know, but the, uh, I think the, the counterbalance that they kind of brought up is, is. You know, you, you start things quicker. If you, if, if you intuitively trust the group that you're working with, you're, you're more likely to advance an opportunity as opposed to say, you know what, I'm not too sure. Let's, let's really build all the trust first before we do anything here and, and then sometimes it just kind of dies on the vine. Um, so the whole process of like, dude don't put a lot of money in the products anymore, just minimum viable product, just to make sure you don't get in front of your skis. Yeah, and um. I mean, I, it's, it's just everyone's preference. I just prefer to to trust. I prefer to believe in the good in people. Um, I know there's bad people out there and I know there's good people to do bad things, um, but I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. I prefer to lead with trust until proven otherwise. And, and you know, I, I found that throughout my my life that really hasn't burned me. Like there there's been a couple small cases where I've been burned by that, but the, you know, the amount of benefit that I think I've gotten out of it versus the small amount of being burned is, is for me has been very much worth it. So that's not a, so somebody said that's a blind spot. You took it uh internally, but it's not something you wanted to put a guard rail up cause it's you've never wrecked the car on it. Yeah, I think, I think for me it was just. Really thinking about it and knowing about it and now when I go into a situation, you know, I, I, I consciously think about it. I think, OK, I'm, I'm going into this situation with full trust and, and, and, and I think just acknowledging that it's there helps you be a better leader. Do you think you can, not that you're trying to train yourself to distrust people, but you grow to Uh, read people better, kind of like if I look at Warren Buffett, how the guy can take a look at some financials over a weekend and make an offer because he trusts the people, yeah, by the financials. Yeah, exactly, yeah, so I, um, yeah, I just, it's just how I how I prefer to prefer a role and um. Yeah, I, I, I don't anticipate myself changing that, but being aware of it is a good thing. Yeah, so back to this company that you grew to 200. How many uh acquisitions did you do for that? What it was kind of like a a spoken wheel, or did you just make 11 that just kind of took off because of you already had the the channels for it? Yeah, we did, uh, within that one, I wanna say it was 4 or 5, but most of the growth was actually organic. Um, so they, they were kind of like small tokens. But we bolted into the company like, you know, a new small division here or we needed a a better capability and and kind of like value added service so we bought a small company to do that. uh, but, but most of the growth actually um was, was fully organic and so our, our philosophy was really how do we You know, how do we bring on more wonderful products? Like how do we sign manufacturers who make really, really great things and sell their products for them in our territory, uh, and then how do we make sure that we have the best possible people who can, you know, the best possible sales people and the best possible service people who can, who can just make it a success in our territory, um. So, so that that's really where the growth came from in our businesses. How do you, uh, interview somebody that you're gonna bring on to the sales or whatever position it is where they're in the right culture based upon what you learned from your mentor and what you bring to the table, like they're a good fit for the personality. I mean, what, what are you looking for? You know that that that's a good question. I, I think, I think back to, you know, how we were doing it, you know, 15 years ago, and it was pretty ad hoc, right? Like we made up some interview questions and we do our best and ultimately it wasn't OK, do we like this person? Do they seem like they would fit in around here and uh and for sales people, it was, you know, are they, you know, are they hungry, like do they really want to go out there and get it and, you know. Most of our sales people were on quite a lot of their comp was variable and you know, like, are they, you know, are they excited about, you know, landing big deals and being rewarded for that. Um, as, as we went on, uh, one of the most important things that we did, um, Was really clearly articulate what our kind of you know our our big purpose was, you know, kind of, kind of going through like the whole mission vision process of of the company we we did that, uh, and then we really articulated clearly how we thought we would win. Um, and you know how we went to market, and then we very clearly articulated our core values, and then we started to craft interview questions around those and and that that made things easier because We, we talked about those a lot. Um, you know, we had those up on the wall in every boardroom and in all the hallways, and it was something, uh, that probably to the annoyance of our team, I always talked about. So every week, you know, I would take 3 people out for a morning coffee, uh, I, and it was all it was all on one page. I'm, I'm just a fanatic for simplicity. uh, so we had our, you know, our, our kind of our. mission and vision and our values and how we win and our and our 1 and 5 year strategy all on one page. Easy to understand. And uh and so I would bring that and we would just talk about it for an hour and I would describe how, you know, how we arrived there, why we're doing these things, how we're growing, what our values were, and, uh, and we would just always talk about it. And so are you explaining it to him or are you trying to weed out people to say, are you on the boat or not on the boat. Uh, the the the the the purpose of these coffees, the kind of the once a week we would just go up to Starbucks and have a coffee. It was explaining, um, but, but what I found too is if, if people didn't really believe in it, ultimately they would just self select out, um, like if, if, if. You know, if, if, if a senior leader in your company comes over and says, hey, this is what we're building and this is what we're doing for the next 5 years, and you look at that piece of paper and you say, I don't think I want to do that, uh, like, you'll, you'll, you'll start looking for another job on your own. Um, uh, but, but, but I, but I, I thought that, you know, we had a pretty compelling plan on this paper and I think most people agreed with that, um, and we didn't have any big attrition from from doing that, I think if anything it excited people. It really focused our company, um. I would say there was a period of time where we were a bunch of we're a bunch of dogs chasing shiny bumpers, right? Like anything that was shining like what's that? Who who who and then go start chasing it and because it was, you know, it was a good opportunity, there's money to be made, it's exciting, it's in a new market or even in a, you know, even in a new country we we pursued some work in the Middle East, but like we we were doing things quite a bit outside of what we knew and what we were good at, um, because we didn't have. A good set of goalposts of of what we actually wanted to do, what we were what we believed we were really great at, where we could add value, where we had knowledge, all of those things, and when we refocus the company and have that clear purpose, mission and vision and values and how we win, um, man, it made all those decisions. So easy, you know, so whenever, whenever, hey, should we do this thing in Mexico, like, no. So what is your mission vision where it disqualified those opportunities? What what is that? So, so our, our, our, our, our, our big goal was to be the most trusted supplier of industrial process equipment in Western Canada. That was, that was it. And so this is interesting because you say the most trusted supplier and your big characteristic or behaviors like I'm trusting. Yeah, so, yeah, it all came together. But it was, but uh, you know, that that's what we want, that's what we want it to be, want to be the most trusted and it was around industrial process equipment and it was Western Canada and, and. And you know it's it's that's a short number of words, but it's uh it was very powerful and very focusing. So when, when opportunities would come up some and it would happen almost on a weekly basis. Hey, we got, we got an inquiry from a customer in Venezuela as an example, which which happened Venezuela, Mexico, Africa, Europe, or like these things well or it says Western Canada right there. Uh, and then, and then, and then that would actually end the conversation, right? Like we wouldn't, we wouldn't have to take an hour or two, to, to go through a presentation and these people wouldn't have to spend days putting together all the information and the research. The answer was no before it even started because we Just knew where we wanted to play chasing rabbits. Yeah, exactly. So we stopped chasing those shiny bumpers and uh and started to focus and and our people really like that too. Um, they just, you know, they were, they knew where they were going. They knew what they were doing and um It's, it made everyone's life a little bit easier and, and it made us more successful too, so uh it worked out pretty good. Can you give me an example of like when you say trusted? I understand like when you say, OK, this is the price of the product and that's the price you'll get, it's not what somebody else. This is it. Uh, let's say delivery time, we're gonna get this product to you, but if, you know, something happens where, you know, somebody goes off the road and you can't get it to the product. I mean, what, what do you do when you say I gotta come, I, I wanna live within that most trusted supplier. Yeah, that's a, that's a good question, and you know where one of the one of the things that we had is, uh, you know, who Who, who would you rather be in trouble with? And um when you when you're dealing with industrial process equipment, just things go wrong, right? Like the things get installed incorrectly in the field and they break, uh, you know, there's a lot of components that go through these things and you know, especially these days supply chains are busted and um you know, some sometimes things are late or they're wrong or they're broken and it and it happens and that doesn't that wasn't just our company, that's every company that deals in this kind of equipment. Things just go wrong and um. And, and we always hoped that our customers would, you know, kind of internally say, OK, well, if we're gonna get into trouble with anybody. We, we hope that it would be tundrara because we know that they'll go to the ends of the earth to fix the problem. um, and that, and we really we gave our people, uh, the freedom to do that. So we have something called Make It Right where people can, you know, spend up to a certain amount of money without asking anybody. They just, they just have the authority to do that on the spot to, to, to fix the problem and you know, they, they could spend more, they just have to kind of, you know, ask somebody, um. And and we and we did that in a big way like we sometimes we spend millions of dollars to uh to to make a problem right and every time we did that we found that that customer over the coming years just would turn out to be our best customer in our promoter scores off the roof, huh? Oh yeah, oh yeah, and, and, and, and translating into like 10X in business because of, because of what we did, um. Just just because they knew that, you know, when when things went wrong, we have their back and you know that, you know, even with a friend, you know, if, if you know that you get in trouble if they have your back, they kind of by definition become your most trusted friend, right? And so that's that's that's really what we tried to build and I think it worked pretty good. Um, it still is working really good. Tundra Tundra remains a You know, a wholly owned subsidiary of Ajax operates on its own, has its own CEO, um, and it's, and it's doing better than ever. So it's like, I, I gotta tell you about that. Who do you want to be in trouble with? It sounds like you're almost talking about the, uh, you know, tenets of working with the Navy SEALs is because who do you want like the guy with the ego or who do you want to be in trouble with? It's the guy that goes to the end of the earth to, you know, save you, take you out, whatever. Yeah, yeah, so we, um. Now there, there, there's numerous examples of where we, where we did that for our customers and, and, you know, I, I would also say that I, I thought we did that for our people too, um. People go through things, right? Uh, sometimes good, sometimes bad, you know, and we always kind of thought that, um, you know, a company. You know, and then the leadership in a company can make the biggest impact on an individual, you know, in their in their times of greatest happiness and greatest sorrow. And so whenever there was, you know, really happy things like babies and weddings, you know, we would always be there to do something special, and when there was, you know, really sad things like death or illness, you know, we, we would always be there to do something, um. How did you do that when you grow to 200 million, you know, it's easy to do when there's 10 people or 50 people in the office. But when then now you got 1000 people. Um, I, I haven't quite figured it out. Wajacks with 3000 people, and I'm, uh, I'm trying to figure out how to do that. Uh, I've I've been in this role of running Wajacks, uh, just for 8 months. So we're, we're really trying to, you know, figure out how we can do, continue to do more for our people, especially in their, you know, in those, in those moments, um, but you know, with a 150, 200 person company, it was quite manageable. Um, you still, I mean I still knew. Pretty much everyone that worked in that company and, you know, they, they have managers too, we knew everything about them, so it was uh it was it wasn't too difficult. So WAX is almost over 100 years old, the company. Uh, we're 165 years old, which actually makes us 9 years older than Canada. And the culture of yours, you know, you had a fast growth over 12 years. Did your cultures uh mix or was there any part that didn't mix? Um, well, the, the companies are still quite separate, so Tundra runs on its own, um, and a few people from Tundra have kind of made their way over to Ajacks, including myself. Um, I, I would say that I'm probably used to a faster pace of growth, but we're also growing on a bigger number, right? Like it's, uh, if you're growing on a on a $100 million dollar number, it's easier to put up higher percentages than if you're growing on an almost $2 billion number. Um, so, uh, we're, I'm a, I'm I'm accelerating the acquisition program at Wajack, uh, you know, I've got a passion for doing acquisitions and buying companies and What kind of, what kind of size companies are you do now that, you know, just move the needle? It's like, well, we can't do that one below, you know, $10 million but we could do this $100 million dollar one. Yeah, and, and, and you, that's actually kind of the numbers, John, uh, you know, companies that are We'll do 10 million and slightly under in revenue, um, as, as add-ons, but they have to be, you know, like a strategic bolt on that really fits, you know, and gives us an extra capability or, you know, it's in a, um, so across Canada we have 117 branches, but we're we're in almost every community, you know, if it gives us an extra community that we want it to be in, that would make sense for an extra capability, that would make sense so we'll do that. Uh, but really we're, we're looking for the larger ones. Uh, Tundra was that kind of an acquisition, and so I'd like to do more of those. They just come along less often. Uh, the market that we operate in is highly fragmented. There is a, there's a, there's a lot of companies out there that are kind of like $10 million revenue. And we're happy to do, you know, 3 or 4 of those a year. Um, but as a, you know, as the bigger ones come along, uh, we, we certainly want to do those because those are the ones that really. Do you have an investment bank working for you now to find those deals or do they flow up from your sources or all the above? Um, yeah, we have numerous, numerous investment banks and brokers that we work with. We have an individual in our company, the, you know, vice president of corporate development. His 100% of his job is finding and buying companies. Um, so, so he's got all the relationships with, uh, with, with the people that also have the relationships. Uh, so the, the deal flow is actually pretty good. Uh, we, we, we get a lot of opportunity coming our way, especially over the last couple of years, you know, we, we have been buying a decent amount of companies we bought. 3 in the last year. Um, so 3 in the last year since since you started as CEO 8 months. Yeah, yeah, 22 since I started and then 1 right before that. Um, so we're, so we're actively doing it and when we do it, you know, we press release it and we try to, you know, make a little bit of a splash about it. And so that that just kind of gets around. It's not that huge of an industry. So people know that we are actively doing it and I think, I think there's a, there's a real Uh, you know, kind of a, a chance of deal closure risk or whatever you wanna call it that, you know, there's a lot of people that sniff around and ultimately don't buy, um, but I don't think we fall into that category. I think we fall into the category that when we're interested in something, we make an offer. It's a real offer, and there's a very high chance that we're gonna close it unless something really weird comes up, um, and, and I think that, you know. Is it of its reputation that gets around and I think that's our reputation that if we're if we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it, we're not just kicking tires. Yeah. And it's a it's a fair offer or competitive offer, or it's a higher offer. What is there a kind of a uh a style that you like to come in on offer? Um, we, we, we definitely don't overpay, uh, you know, I think we pay fair. Um, you know, when I, when I think about What a seller wants, um, you know, obviously, you know, money is important and you know, and they need to feel that they're getting a fair price, but more often than not, even more important to that to the sellers is what's happening to my baby, you know, I've been running this company for 20 years. I started it, what's the fate of this company, what's the fate of all the people that work here and Well, I think you trump that with, well, we're a 160 year old company. I mean, we're gonna take care of you. Yeah, and that's so that that that's part of the, that's part of the, you know, the conversation saying you know we've been around a long time, we buy companies, we don't really sell them, we hold on to them, so it's a nice permanent home for all of your employees, which was um You know, a really attractive thing for us when we were selling Tundra. It was a good permanent home for our employees and and there was a lot of promises made to me by the previous CEO and they sounded something like this. They said, uh, you know, we're going to leave the brand alone, at least for a period of time, you know, so you can still operate as Tundra. Uh, we're not gonna mess with your systems, you know, you do have to take on our safety program because it's a little bit better and over time you gotta take on our computer system, but how you sell and all that. We're not going to change any of that, and we plan on laying off 0 people. The reason we're buying this company is for the people and we want to keep everybody. So those were the promises that were made and every one of those promises was kept in space and when there were surprises there was positive surprises like extra bonuses for our people, right? Like, so there was there was there was only there was good surprises that happened along the way. um You really managed expectations about I, I saw it seems like the culture really was a good mesh. It, it was, and, and it is, and um and so I, so I think going into some of these conversations with, uh, you know, with the owners of these businesses when I'm chatting with them. You know, I, I can say, you know, it is a good permanent home, and you know, I was exactly in your shoes two years ago and a bunch of promises were made to me, and this is how it, you know, this is how it all rolled out and played out, and I can point to, you know, all of our acquisitions that we've done, and they've all pretty much played out like that. So, um. It, I think it's hard for other buyers to to come in and give that kind of a track record. Like if you're if you're a private equity company, the model is usually pretty simple, right? Like you, you put a bunch of debt on the balance sheet, often you cut a bunch of heads and you renegotiate the terms and price maybe through that 90 120 days. Yeah, yeah, and then you and then you squeeze a business for all the cash that it has for the next 5 years and then you flip it, right? And so I mean that's not the worst fate in the world, but it's uh I don't think it's nearly as good as the as the future that would be be in being in. Do you still get involved with the uh conversations with the the sellers or kind of like Mark Leonard or Cisco where that it dropped down to the business unit GMs. Uh, it, it depends on the size, you know, if it's a And, and on their relationships if one of our people already has a tight relationship with uh with the seller, which is sometimes the case, then I then I'll let them run with it. If it's a little bit bigger or or a new one to us, then I'll for sure get involved with it, um, and you know I'll get involved more the larger the deal is and the more that they need me. I mean, some sellers, you know, it's a You know, it's it's a pretty unemotional transaction, you know, it's like, just give me a fair price. Tell me my people are gonna be good, and I don't need to talk to the CEO and I'm out. And then, and then for other for other sellers, you know, they, they, you know, they want to look me in the eye, they want to shake my hand, and they want to know that what I'm telling them, you know, at least they wanna, they want to hear it from me. They wanna, they wanna make their own evaluation if it's true, and if they and if they trust me that what I'm telling them is true, um, and I'm and I'm more than happy to do that because that's super important. Do you like running a public company with all the swings of what the street wants, doesn't want, or You know, You know, I, you know, I really, really do. I wasn't sure if I would, um, I had never run a public company before, so it was, uh, you know, it was, it was new to me, um. And I mean what I found is we just have an incredible team. Uh, they, they know what they're doing. We've been around 165 years and we've been public for a long time, so it's not like I have to go in and Reinvent anything, right? Like there is a there's no story to tell here and there's a machine that works, you know, every quarter when the results come out, all these things happen, everyone knows what they're supposed to do, and I know it's just my job to get on the analyst call and answer the analyst questions, um, which I'm usually prepared for, uh, by, by our team, so, um. So I've, I've really been enjoying it so I, I like the, I like talking to investors, uh, either existing or potential investors. I love telling her story. I think it's a really exciting story to tell. I think we have just a ton of growth opportunity, uh, and, and I really like dealing with our board. We have a really, really wonderful board who are ultra supportive of me and management, and they kind of leave us alone to do our own thing, um, um, and you know they. That whole thing where the board's supposed to have their nose in, but their fingers out, that's the phrase that boards use. Um, they, they live that they, they, they, they allow us to set the strategy and then they just kind of approve the annual budgets and approve all the things that a board's supposed to approve, uh, and they're really, really, really, really smart. Is there anybody, uh, ancestors from founders still on the board some way back? No, no, no, no, no, it's a, it's a fully independent board. Um, and they're, yeah, and then they're all just wonderful. I mean, just the experience and knowledge that some of these folks have is, is, is quite incredible. I feel pretty lucky that we have them, uh, so I, I bounced a lot of ideas off them and, you know, talk to them offline between board meetings to get advice and, uh, so I've. I've really been enjoying it. It's only been a short time. Maybe I'm still in the honeymoon period, but, um, but if it keeps going like this, I, I think I'm, I'm in for a pretty fun and enjoyable ride. Yeah. What, what's the goal? I mean, it does the board want you to continue a specific growth per year, um, and just keep doing the same thing and employing great people, being the most trusted? Did they incorporate your missions and values, or do they already have a mission value statement almost similar? You know, interestingly, the company has been around for 165 years. We don't have a mission and value statement. Uh, we don't have a mission and vision statement. We don't have uh an accepted written down set of core values, and so that's one of the first things that uh that I'm working on here. So we've kind of launched that journey that we're going on for the next year to really articulate that, uh, and I think that will make our lives much easier again as it was at my previous company, once we got that in place, um. My job becomes easier, uh, it becomes a lot more repetitive because that's all I ever talk about, uh, is just going around talking about what our mission and vision and values are and how we win and how we go to market. Uh, but we're, we're just in the process of starting that journey. So that's kind of the next big thing, getting all of that on a piece of paper, um, and then really disseminating it through all of our leaders and the front lines and, um, yeah, as I go around to our branches and talk to our people, that's, that's what I'll be talking about once it's done, but it'll it'll probably take us a year to really get it done well. I, I see where that, uh, that vision, mission statement can create trust because you also create independence. Because, you know, should I take this deal in Latin America or Saudi Arabia? Yes or no, right? Before, no, but now such a big company, yeah, we could do it. Yeah, and, and, and ultimately that will be our, you know, as as we decide, you know, if, if our final place where we land on is we're Canadian only company and that's how we're staying for the next decade, then again that'll make it really easy when opportunities come in that aren't Canadian then no thanks. And we'll move on, um, but yeah, but that'll be a really fun journey of how we, of what we land on and uh and and that will really set the tone for what the next decade will look like. Yeah, Iggy, thank you so much for being on this show. That was very, very interesting. I appreciate it. You are my first. A guest, that's running a public company. Oh awesome. Well, I'm uh I was thrilled to be on the show. Thanks for having me here, John. I, I love M&A and I, I love talking about it and, uh, you know, I, I think that, you know, entrepreneurship and, and buying businesses is such a, just a wonderful way for people to build skills and build a great life. So any, any kind of piece that I can do to help get people excited about that always makes me quite excited. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks, John. All right, take care. You too.