7+ Acquisitions Most Recent $8.5 Million Antonio & Jason Batallan, Top M&A Entrepreneurs

Welcome to the top M&A entrepreneurs. Today, I have Jason Battalion and Antonio Battalion, uh, Cuban-Americans, uh, and I take it that Battalion means battle, right? Well, uh, Bataya means battle in Spanish, Batalon is just the name, but it's close. Cool. Well, they've got a, uh, company, they have, it's property, property works, over 100 100 employees. Their last acquisition they just did in 2021 was for $8.5 million which was painters on demand, and we're gonna talk about that a little bit. But let's talk about how you guys got started. Um, it looks like you acquired Perry's Landscaping in 2009 for $350 excuse me, $350,000. And thank you for sharing all this on your website too. That's great. So how did this start, guys? What did you, what were you doing before Perry's Landscaping and let's, you know, what was the decision to buy Perry's landscaping? Um, but you wanna speak to that, Jason? You want me to speak? Sure. So, uh, prior to that acquisition, um, we were in the real estate space. We still are, um, in, in that space, I mean, uh, multi-family, uh, rentals, um, we still are in that space, we love that space. Um, we were primarily in that space and servicing and Managing and maintaining our own properties. Um, about 2007, you could kind of see the writing on the walls, there was, you know, there's gonna be a slowdown, things didn't make sense, etc. and 2008 came, you know, there was a big hit. Uh, so, we decided since we were already Servicing and maintaining a lot of our own properties, um, we decided to try and purchase a company and start doing that for other people, and that was basically just a test run with Perry's, uh, that, and that was a, uh, commercial lawn maintenance company. Um, and that's what we did with them, and that was, did you guys, were they, uh, a service provider for your properties? No, actually, uh, they came through a broker that we had met, um, uh, probably 6 months prior, and, you know, told him that we're looking for something, some ancillary things that went together with what we were doing, explained what we already did, etc. and so he was looking for stuff and sending us, you know, different opportunities and that came through there. Yeah, was it profitable, a company? It was, yeah, it was. How did you guys pay for that? Was it, uh, you know, some equity down, uh, debt, seller financing? What the capital stack look like? The, the cap stack on that was, um, it wasn't a large acquisition, as you mentioned, um, it was small down payment, um, some small debt, and some, uh, seller's financing as well. Yeah. Is that person still with the company or did they leave? No, that person was, uh, on their way out. They were retiring. They hung out for a little bit, not too long. Um, he was an older gentleman, and he was retiring, so. Yeah, is the footprint from that Perry's landscaping still kind of the core of your business, of the landscaping business? Would you say no, not at all. Completely changed, move the other direction change, yeah. So you went to the next thing was nautical Creations acquired in 2010. That was just equipment and infrastructure purchase. What was that like a distress sale, hey, bankruptcy, something like that. Kind of was a guy, it was a guy that we knew, um, who, who was a friend that tried to do, you know, have his own company and, and struggled a bit and, and, and decided that he wanted to join forces with us instead of continue to do it on his own. Um, so we acquired his company, his equipment. Um, and he came to work with us for 8 years. Great guy. Yeah, so what, what, how, how did you guys pay for that? Was it like just cash out, like an asset evaluation? Yeah, basically that we just took on some payments. OK, we gave him a little bit of money and took on some payments. In that case, we just assume, assumed his debt. Oh interesting. Was that a lot of debt? Why was the debt there? It was for the equipment or for building? Yeah, correct. OK. So then you jumped over to Ambassador Landscaping, acquired in 2011. That was a sole proprietor, uh, already 12 years in business. Where did you guys find that? The Same broker, same broker that same broker, yes, so he's got a beat on you. You're a reliable buyer. whatever landscaping pops up, he talks to you guys first. Sure, if it, if it fits, I don't know if we were first, but, but he talked to us, yeah, yeah, if, if it fits, you know, our geographical area that, that we were looking at at the time, um, you know, and stuff like that, he would run it by us. What was the, do you remember what the valuation for, uh, it was a company for 9500. What was the valuation on that in 2011 and how is that different in 2022? Um, I wanna say, I wanna say we paid. Just under 3 times SDE yeah, at the time. So, so that that company was doing about 300,000 SDE, um, and we, and we paid, give or take 3 times, maybe a little more, um, same type of scenario, right? Some commercial debt down payment, some owner financing, um, that, that's. That's kind of a requirement for us, right? Um, it, it's, it's, uh, for lack of a better term, it's kind of an insurance policy, um, when, when, when someone says, hey, listen, I, I, you know, this is what I do, trust me, it's all there, blah blah blah. I said, OK, so if you want me to trust you, then you gotta trust me. Yeah. And, and, and they carry a little bit, a little bit of a You know, some they have some skin in the game, and then, uh, to be honest with you, once we pay them off, uh, or they've been being paid for a couple of years, they're a pretty good ally for your next acquisition, cause you can say to someone. A future acquisition. Hey, listen, I can introduce you to 2 or 3 people that can tell you that we're not full of shit, and they've been getting paid. We did this with them and they're still around, and here we are. So that's worked to our benefit numerous times. Yeah, it sounds like the broker probably pre-frames you too, they go like, here's some great. Buyers, here's how they buy. If you're open to that, great, let's go meet, put you the two together. Sure, I mean, it, it works. They're, they're great testimonials on both sides. Yeah, well, and, and at the end of the day, I think, I think there's a, there's a statistic out there that I want to say like 90% of businesses don't ever sell. Oh yeah, yep. Um, and don't quote me on that. I'm, I'm not sure, but I know it's a high percentage. Um, so, so when you have a broker that, that knows you can execute, they, they, they're an ally for you. They, they find you deals, cause if they don't sell, they don't make any money. Right, yeah. So you jumped over to Moon's Landscaping acquired quite soon after that. Same broker, same different guy or what? Uh, yes, same guy. And it's just, uh, that was for $550,000. You, you got your template stack that you do, and, and now you're rolling on. So you got At least 3 or 4 are going right now. Um, was the when you guys put all these together, were the synergies happening like you thought they would? Um, yes and no. Um, oftentimes people think putting the deal together and finding the deal is the hard part. When you do it a bunch of times, that's, that's the easy part, man. It's running the damn thing that's, that's challenging, right? Yeah, uh, dealing with, you know, 60, 80, 100, 200 employees, you know, at, at some point, everybody's different personalities, different issues, everybody thinks they're underpaid. I'm still underpaid, by the way, I, I still think I'm underpaid, yeah, um. Uh, so, so that's where the challenge comes in, you know, working capital, everybody wants to grow businesses, but, but they gotta be funded somehow, you know, nobody pays in advance, everybody pays 30 days, 45 days, so there's, there's, there's cash flow issues all the time. Yes, there's post-close, uh, uh, challenges that, that often people overlook that in, in my opinion, are the real, you know, is a real challenge. Is that like, uh, you know, opening a chest of, you know, looking under the hood, you see stuff you don't see, or is it, um, not really, it hasn't been the case for us. It it's just, you know, oftentimes, um, Most people think that if something is working, you just keep doing it. Yeah. But as you grow and, and exponentially, right, you have to realize that what got you here won't get you there. Right, uh, you've got to evolve, um, you know, human resources comes into play, IT comes into play, banking, you know, all these other things that when you're a small business. You kind of just shoot from the hip on, all of a sudden become a priority and something that's got to be considered day to day, right? I mean, people want health insurance, you got all kinds of other things that that Weren't part of the business you bought, but now due to the fact that you've grown to a certain level, now become part of the equation. Yeah, now have you guys ever, let's say you haven't or have built a company before and you know exactly, it's like, hey, I, I, I know traffic, it's gonna be 6 lanes in 2040, so I need to build a 10 lane highway. then, I mean, how do you guys work on that strategize and say, you know, here's what we need to do for the future. You know, we've got to have an HR department, we've got to have a general manager in place. We've got to kind of remove ourselves to working above the business. Um, that, that's a challenge, man. That, that's, that's, that's tough. Um, we oftentimes reach out, we're, we're big, um, You know, uh, learners or, or, or, you know, we reach out to people who have been where we want to be, yeah, who have done what we want to do, um. You know, asking for help. A lot of times people are shy or embarrassed or they feel awkward by going to someone and saying, hey man, I'm, I'm, I'm doing something similar to what you've done. Would you mind having lunch with me, man, and I can ask you a couple questions. You would be surprised how helpful some people are. Remember, everybody likes to share their story, and it's all a game of scales, right? Somebody that's buying their first company might look at us and say, Hey guys, can I take you to dinner? And we'll be like, Sure, let's go. Where is it? what we did, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's no different than somebody that's doing 500 million looking at us. It's all a game of scales, yeah. Um, so, so we've done that, um, we are, we are habitual learners, um, if you're talking about books, you're talking about visage or young entrepreneurs, uh, all the masterminds, yes, yes, I gotta tell you that's a common theme. I've done 60+ interviews. People that are succeeding going over 50, 100 million, it's always a mastermind of mentorships. Yes, they'll point right to it, yeah, yeah. So you jumped into uh grasshopper landscaping, uh, two quick acquisitions in 2012. How did that opportunity come up? It was the same broker guy, or where did that come from? So it's the same broker guy who calls us one day, it was a Thursday, and he says, hey, um, a little bit unconventional, but a deal fell through for me on a guy that has Some visa issues, right? Like some, uh, status issues here in the country or something, and he's in a hurry to sell. Here are the numbers, this is what he accepted. If you, if this is appealing to you guys, we, we can put this together relatively quick. Yeah. And we looked at it. Within a week, we got back to him, um, and said, let's, let's, let's move forward, and then we did it. So what was the conversation between you and your brothers and your, your group, say, well, man, that's too much to digest. Can we do it? Should we do it? I mean, what was the, the, you know, I, I, I need to see the worst case scenario, best case scenario on this, because that's a, that's a lot to digest, two acquisitions in one year. Yeah, um, it it definitely was, it, it, it's, it's, um. Everybody wants to play in the big Mike Tyson says it best, right? Everybody thinks they can fight till I punch him in the face, right? It it it everything sounds nice and, oh, you know, you got a such and such sized company and so that all sounds good and, and, and fine until you're in the. Middle of it, right? And you're working 14 hours a day, and, you know, you don't see your kids and your wife on the weekends sometimes, right? That's where some people draw the line. You've got to be willing to play at the top level and do the definition for for me, the definition of whatever it takes is is the the defining term, right? If, if, if you're truly willing to do whatever it takes, then, then nobody says you can't do it. Now, whatever it takes doesn't mean, hey, I go home at 5, I got, you know, Sundays, I gotta wake up at 10, which is most people. Most people just just don't have the gut to stomach business. Yeah, well, what if, what if you say, um, if you look at Warren Buffett, he gets up, he has his Coca-Cola or his coffee, he reads for 4 hours, he reads the financial reports, and then, and then he's running a $300 billion company. How do you create a scenario where you're working above the business to do that? That's, that's always the question that my audience is looking like, cause like, Well John, I could buy the business, and I can buy another one, but then I'm working 12 hours a day. Then I don't see my family, then I don't, I don't get to go to their soccer games. So So two things on that, right? That that's, that's a really tough challenge. That's something we work on all the time to work on the business, not in the business, 1. And number 2, Jack Welch said it best, right? Uh, there are no such, there is no such thing as work-life balance. There are work-life choices, and we all pay a price for it. Yeah, agreed. Right, so, so, um, you know, uh, does Elon Musk go to all his kids' soccer games? Probably not know if he knows how many kids he has first. OK, well, that may be true too. So, um, um, you know, was, was, was gonna populate the planet? Was Tiger Woods there for, for every birthday? Probably not. You know, I mean, that's just the price you pay. Yeah, I think you guys, if you find something you really love to do, and you're tip tap dancing to work, and the hours, whatever they are, are yours, and you choose them, you just don't have any regrets. For them, sure, and, and that's how Jason and I feel, yeah, if the goal is clear, you know, those, those, those, uh, things you have to go through and the challenges are obviously significantly. Easier to deal with, you know, it doesn't mean they're easy, just means they're, they're, they're easier to deal with when your goals are clear and you know what you wanna do and where you wanna be. What, what's the end goal when you're young and you meet a new girl, right? You're anxious to go out and, you know, you just, that's all you think about, you know, you can't spend enough time with her, yada yada yada yada, right? That's how we feel about what we do. Yeah, love it. I mean, it's a passion. Yeah. Well, what's the end goal for you guys? What, what do you guys wanna do? What do you wanna do? It's like build this. Is it a landscaping business or is it a service businesses? Uh, what is it a holding company of? So, so they're facilities maintenance organizations, right? Yeah, OK. Um, so, so we've been approached 3 times now. Um, for, for an acquisition that, that we've, you know, it just hasn't made sense, right? Um, and, and, frankly, uh, we're, we weren't big enough at the time, right? You need more mass, uh, the deployment of capital's gotta be large. Um, the goal is to roll up additional organizations throughout the Southeast US in the next 3 to 5 years. And then, you know, sit down with some PE or or someone else and and and maybe take on uh uh some funding and and and continue to roll it out. Yeah. But, but that's, that's the goal. We, we don't, we don't want to retire. We like what we do, take pride in it, it it's fun, you know. Well, what do, what do you say you're, uh, the PE firms kind of like the 2 million above EBITA before they get on their radar. Where are you guys, uh, now that's a 2012. So let's go, let me, I'm jumping around here, but the Adrian Lacy Group janitorial Services, that's what's a kind of an adjacent business, a little bit different, but I guess it falls under facilities maintenance. Yeah, yeah, that was a small janitorial company in South Florida, yeah, um, that again came through uh through the broker to us. Same guy, same guy, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and the same deal, you know, uh, a little bit of commercial, uh, uh, debt, some, some cash up front, and the guy, uh, uh, held a note, uh. You know, so, same, same, same thing. What, uh, that's completely different kind of what makes the bell ring on that for the adjacent business. What, uh, sometimes what happens with these is like it it it's a different core market, overestimating our skills or overestimating the cross selling upselling or something. Was there any of cross selling? Between the two, or is this completely separate? Business sitting by itself. So sometime probably, I don't know, probably about the time that we got moons and and uh grasshopper, we started diversifying a bit and not just doing landscaping, but also doing more facilities maintenance, right? And by facilities maintenance, I mean just non-permitted day to day. Work at commercial facilities, whether it's janitorial services, whether it's pressure cleaning, changing a door lock, you know, all kinds of odd and end. Work jobs that come up in in commercial facilities, and we expanded that side to have, uh, I think currently we work at Over 90 educational facilities throughout the state of Florida, um, numerous car dealerships, you know, porter services, you know, that, that type of stuff along with the landscaping. So, so the Adrian Lacy group fit that side very well. Yeah. And the Adrian Lacy Group, that's who, who is Adrian Lacy? Why did, why was the name called that because it doesn't match the janitorial services at all. I, I, I can't answer that, man. No idea the guy's name, no idea, but he had, he had some good accounts that made sense, and, you know, that's what we looked at. There's a lot of things, you know, especially on the smaller, on the smaller end, the smaller operators that don't make an awful lot of sense that they're doing. You run into that quite often. So you guys were in this uh purchasing the multi-family tenants operations, and you saw all these facility management. Uh, uh, services being around this, you know, this planet here, and you just said, OK, you're, you're just gonna go start purchasing those, like, yeah, taking care of us. Basically, we were, we were performing all of these services, um, prior to, you know, uh, Perry's in 2009. We're performing all of these services for ourselves at our own properties that we owned and operated and managed. Um, so, With the Perry's acquisition and all the subsequent acquisitions, we started doing that for other people. You know, and, and focus strictly on the commercial side, uh, municipalities, commercial, you know, larger, uh, buildings, etc. and so all of the, the acquisitions and the potential acquisitions we look at were are still in that space, in that maintenance space, which does allow some cross selling. Currently, uh, the companies are divided in just two companies. So we operate as two separate companies, uh, POD, which is Painters on Demand, and Property Works. Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna talk to you about that Painters on Demand cause that's a, that's a much bigger acquisition. Is the goal to, uh, Continue just buying these satellite type service facilities management businesses, or, and also to buy more multi-tenant kind of uh properties. Well, the properties is a separate thing that, that really has nothing to do with these businesses, that our, our properties is, you know, a, a separate thing as far as our multi-family properties. Sure, we're always looking in that space and, and, and, uh, Um, in the future, they'll, they'll be more on the real estate side that we do. Um, however, that's, you know, separate from this. Um, as far as on property works and, and painters on demand, uh, basically, it just depends deal by deal what we're able to, you know, some people bring us deals, some deals we have that we've, uh, identified ourselves through, uh, Vendors or partners that are in our network that we use that, you know, become potential acquisitions, um, some of them you just tuck in, and when it's something of substance large enough, it'll be standing on its own, as we did with painters on Demand. Yeah. So let's go into this Painters on Demand acquired in 2021 for 8.5 million, which was 10 times, almost 10 times the largest acquisition you did on all the others. I mean, where did that come from? Was it the broker also? No, that wasn't so, so, so they were. A sub of ours, um, we would sub them out large painting projects. Yeah, yeah, and, um, you know, we met the owner, great guy, and one day we're having a drink, shooting the breeze, and, you know, just talking about what we do, what our plans are, and we told him a little bit about what we wanted to do. And he said, you know, at some point I, I, I'd like to turn the page, you know, I'm, you know, of, of X age, and, you know, I want to enjoy life a little bit, blah blah blah, and I talked to Jason and we came back to him and said, hey, why, why don't we talk about this, right? Um, and a year and a half later. We own the company. So it was almost a 1.5 sales cycle where you're planted the seed, it goes through his head like these guys can buy it, take it over, keep my legacy, keep my employees, and OK, I'm comfortable with this. The deal fell apart a couple times before it happened. Why did it fall apart? Just because it does. I mean, um, uh. He had an advisor that told him that he thought he could get more money for it, you know, so we, we were honest with him. We said, hey, listen, man, we, we've done this a couple of times. This is your first time, this is what's gonna happen, they're pulling your chain, when it comes down to it, they're gonna run you through the mill, blah blah blah blah blah, and, and he, he was honest with us too. He's a great guy. We still hang out with him. We got a meeting next week, I think. Um, he said, I, I understand, guys, but, but I've, I, for my sake, I just gotta go through the motions. I said, all right, so let's, let's give it a timeline. I think we gave him like 90 days. If in 90 days you don't have a, uh, uh, asset purchase agreement in place, we go back to the table. Was this a broker dealer and he was listed on a site, say no, it was a, it was a guy. I don't even know what the guy it was a smaller M&A firm that he was working. With that was essentially preparing him to bring them to market, OK, and he said, what, what, what valuation did that guy say it was worth? I mean, because that's how you really sign up clients to say, oh my God, you're gonna get 10 times x. I don't if, if I told you, man, I'd be making it up. I don't remember exactly, but it, it was, I wanna say it was like 8 times or something. It was like high, 8 times even on a painting company, OK, yeah, and we were like, and, and again, don't quote me on that, it was, it was high. It was too high for you guys, yeah, sure, yeah, I think it was too high for anybody, frankly. I don't know anybody that pay that 8X and, and the market doesn't bear that, right? And, and so he went through it. So 90 days, uh, later, um, you know, we, we call him and we say, hey, where are you at? And he said, you know what, man, it hasn't happened, um, you know, I, I'm gonna pull the plug. I said, all right, so let's schedule a meeting, me, you and Jason lock ourselves up in a conference room, and we draw out the deal. And we did that. I think we're in the room for 4 or 5 hours and we left with a with a an executed LOI and then we put it all together after that. What kind of uh questions did you ask him to get his real motivation? Like, what were his curious or odd, like, I want this, like I, I, you know. So, so a couple things that we've figured out which helps is most of the time, right, at this smaller level businesses. The people that are selling. Have this notion, and I'm not saying this was this guy's notion, but they have this notion that your business is indirectly worth what you feel you need to do for the rest of your life, right? So you feel you need $3 million because you want to travel the world and have, you know, X amount put away for the rest of your life. So all of a sudden. Your business is now worth $3 million right? 11 thing has nothing to do with the other, but this is a lot of times they're thinking, so you have to. Allow them to speak and, and, and in many cases, kind of try to educate them a little bit and say, hey, listen, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Um, there may be a way that we can get you to the 3 million bucks, i.e. some seller financing, which you're gonna make some interest on the money, we're gonna pay you more than the bank's gonna pay you, yadda yadda yadda, but one thing has nothing to do with the other. Sure, um, at that point, if they, if they look around enough and speak to enough brokers, um, typically they'll find somebody whose valuation aligns with what they feel they need for the rest of their lives, right? Yeah, and this is kind of weird because businesses, business owners, it's really easy to see what the comps are in real estate and what the property next door is selling, like, well, dude, you're not gonna get any more than the guy next door that sold to you. Right, correct, but business owners, there's not a, you know, they don't go, they have a broker or an investment banker says it's worth 10x. Yeah, that's crazy. Uh, but they don't, there's no place where they can go, well, it's only 2X or 3X, even, right, right, yeah, and, and so that happens, and that happens often, and, you know, a lot of times, um, they fail to realize how, how involved they are in their business. And if they weren't as involved, then potentially or most likely that multiple would be higher, however, they are almost always more involved than they lead, you know, lead you on to believe they are. Yeah, I mean they, they could be doing the hiring, firing, they, they could do the sales or business development, or they're doing all of this stuff, they are still inside the business, correct, and it's not automated or a general manager in place. And if it was automated and there was those people in place, frankly, most of the time they wouldn't be selling. Let's be honest. That's yeah, that's very true, yeah, yeah. So, so the real test is simple, right? And we ask them all the time when we meet with people. Oh no, no, my business runs by itself. I, I, I, I think I work like 2 hours a week. Really? So really? Well, pack your shit, let's go. We're gonna disappear for 2 weeks. Let's see what happens. Well, no, no, no, I can't do that. Well, because I gotta do payroll and I gotta do this and that and the other and yada yada yada. So, so that defines really if you got a really good job, you actually have a business. Can you leave for two weeks? And call in every couple days and the business keeps running. So you got a name for that, like a fishing for swordfish two-week trip? Whatever, man, the vacation in Belize and something, but if you can't leave and things run by themselves, so to speak, you really don't have a business. You got a good job. Yeah, you got a great job. And so did he realize when you guys went to this uh 4 hour meeting, did he already go through this process and realize like, oh man, I Uh, I'm, uh, uh, at this point I'm gonna be transparent because it's not selling and I want out. What was motivated to want out? Was it, was it health reasons or something, or so, so, so he didn't, he doesn't have any health reasons thankfully. Like Tony said, he's a great guy. He's a, he's a good friend of ours now. We enjoy spending time with him. Um, frankly, I just believed he, he, he knew, uh, where we were at in, uh, you know, in, in, in the economy cycle, where we're at, and, and, and. Where we're at, you know, economically, um, and he knew that. He was not willing to take on the next step and the next tier of his business to grow it to the next level, frankly, um, and felt confident that we could do that. Uh, we've shown him, you know, we were able to show him and prove to him that we could do that. Um, in a lot of ways, our operation, you know, our, our, that we operated similarly in, in a lot of ways, so, you know, he was attracted to that, we were attracted to that. We both liked each other's teams at, you know, the different companies, etc. So, you know, it was a good fit. Um, and I'm sure if you ask him, he'd tell you the same thing, you know, it was, it was the best fit. Uh, he did speak to some other people like, uh, Tony said earlier, um, and it just wasn't the same thing, you know, and frankly, even with those other people, uh, we knew who they were, what they were doing, it, it would have never worked anyway, um, but So he, he, he, uh, saw the headwinds coming in the economy, and he didn't want to go through another down cycle and the energy required that, and then he didn't want to, he, he, he didn't have the energy to grow to the next level. When that part of the conversation came up, did he Kinda ask you for a piece of it, kind of doing the private equity model, put 30% back in chips on the table. Did he ask for any slice of that? If you took it to 16 million, he'd get the upside on that? No, no, we, we didn't, we didn't do that, no. No, he, he, he, he was pretty honest, man. Um, like I said, we talked about it and he just said, hey guys, listen, man, I, I You know, it's just time for me to move on, you know, I've done this, and I wanna, you know, I wanna travel a little bit, blah blah blah, and spend some time with my grandkids, and, you know, you guys are younger and, and, and, and I think this is a good fit, which it has been thus far. How old was he? Wanna say he's early 60s. Yeah, but, but everybody's different, man. What's, what's, what's ideal for me may not be for you or vice versa. Different people jeez, look at the Warren Buffett Charlie Munger. They're 92, they're making still billion dollar deals, $100 billion deals. In their case, a little bit different. That's the only thing keeping them alive. That's true. If they stop off that train, that's all you have at that point, yeah. That's interesting. So how is that? Did you install a general manager or someone wanted you to take over, or what? Did he have a number 2 man in place? So he had and and still has um his, his core, his C-suite, for lack of a better term. Um, we're 3 badass guys, just good, good, good guys. Um, we met with them, had drinks, hung out with them, we liked them, they, they get along, um. You know, that that was an important part for us. Um, post close, we told them we were gonna put a program in place where we were gonna share the growth with them, ie overrides, commissions, and stuff like that where they were gonna, we're gonna bust ass, but they were gonna make more money. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and it's worked out that way for all of us. I mean, we're doing really well with that business. They're doing well, they're, you know, they're making more money, um, you know, it's, it's, it's great all the way around. Show me the compensation plan, I'll show you the outcomes. Yeah. So, yeah, and, and, and, you know, oftentimes again, going back to people who we've met that are trying to do what we're doing. You, you gotta realize that you're not the only person that wants to make more money. Right, right. Everybody thinks, oh yeah, I got, you, you gotta share, right? You, you, you got your own, you're defined by your team. You want good people, you wanna be able to, to grow. You gotta have people you can put weight on their shoulders, and those people wanna make money. Yeah, are, are, are you having? Trouble finding, give it to him. Oh yeah, right, no, I'm not saying give it to him, but, but put a vehicle in place where they can earn it. As far as finding people, yes, if I, if I told you we weren't, I'd be lying. It's, it's a challenge to find people. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. Well, going back to that conversation with the seller, and he knows that there's headwinds happening, you know there's headwinds happening. Are you offering them a multiple? Uh, because of those headwinds a little bit lower, um, you know, economy goes south, interest rates go up, inflation goes up. Um, the, the, the part of the answer is yes in a certain way, um, uh, part of the multiple ordeal that we struck up and the capital stack and everything kind of, uh, Has to do with that, right? Um, he did, uh, you know, hold the sellers, no, we do have some commercial debt, etc. so, we felt and still feel, um, that given the deal that we came up with, I mean, it was no secret, you know, um, a year ago that at some point here, you know, we're heading into a recession, rates are gonna go up, I mean, things, things like that are happening, that, that, that's not a secret, whether it's, you know, 6 months or 18 months or 24 months is to be seen, but it was, it's gonna happen, you know, yeah, it would be naive to think not, um, so that all that stuff was taken into consideration in, uh, in our deal with them. So curious, uh, a year and a half, it's your biggest deal in your facilities management, not including the property type. What, what do you, what do you two guys do to celebrate that success? Try to find another one, man. What the hell else are you gonna do? That's the most frustrating part is, is, uh, is having, uh, having the ability and the wherewithal to replicate this and it taking time in order to find the right acquisition and what makes sense, you know, uh, that's, that, that part's a little frustrating. Yeah. Do you sometimes feel imperative to continue? This is what happens to a lot of people that start acquiring companies serially is they just keep acquiring and they don't digest. Uh, the others, so putting processes in place. I agree with that, and um as Tom, who you had on your podcast, um, the Canadian guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot him, right? So, so we as well went to see Dan Pena in Scotland, like, OK, OK. So, so, uh, we went twice. I think he went twice as well, um. So Dan said something to us which I'll never forget. He says that Boone Pickens taught him this. And he said, Boone Pickens said, Danny boy, don't get too hungry. If you want a deal bad enough, you'll make a bad deal. So in other words, don't be a deal junkie and just chase the, the high, right? Yeah, to your point, make sure you digest them, make sure things flow, there's processes and systems in place, you know, uh, to, to be able to support it. Yeah, at some point if you were a bad deal, I slim picking, uh, out of Texas oil guy, but he, you know, the chair, there's only one chair left to 2 people and somebody's gonna be left without a chair, yeah. So also, also that digestion period, uh, seems to be. A little bit less, uh. As the size of the deal grows. Remember, the, the larger the deal, the more infrastructure is already in place. And if it's a large enough deal, you're gonna leave that deal on its own, worry about some cross selling after the fact, but that deal is gonna sustain itself, and it's running on its own. So, it doesn't take as long to digest it, cause, you know, it's not like small deals in in 09, 2010, 012, 011 that, you know, you're just tucking them in. There's a lot more moving parts there. Yeah. What, what did you guys learn about a uh uh the, the big deal versus the small deals? Will you do these small deals anymore? We would if it makes sense, um, I've strategic prefer not to strategically, yeah, you do something and tuck it in, but um. To, to, to us. The larger deals just make more sense. Takes just as much energy and effort and in certain places, back to what I was just saying, I mean, having infrastructure in place and just tweaking what's in place and adding to that is a lot easier than building it. Yeah. How, how do you guys, I gotta talk about you guys working together. Uh, how do you guys work together? Who's, who takes the role? You got a big smile on your face on that one. Who takes this role, who takes that role, and, and when somebody's got an idea and this guy thinks it's dumb and vice versa, how does that work itself out? Because I, I feel like, I got a brother, one year older than me, and we probably wouldn't be friends if we weren't related, but I love him to death, right? Well, we're, we're, we're, we've always worked together, um, and we owe that to our parents, um, that, you know, bred that and, and like that we've always worked together. We kind of stay in our own lanes, uh, however, we do, you know, have, have, uh, uh, You know, we do crossover and, and, and, and communicate about everything and have disagreements and, you know, the biggest thing is our, our, our goals are the same, and we understand that we're all, you know, pushing in the same direction. We have different views at times. We do have different ways of looking at things generally. We end up, you know, at the same outcome, you know, to, to a problem, you know, he looks at it this way, I look at it this way, spin around in circles, and we end up at the same place most of the time. Yeah. Do you guys have an equal veto vote on an acquisition or a project? Absolutely, yeah, we, it's 50, everything's 50/50. Yeah, if we don't move forward, we don't move forward. What, what did your family, your parents do that instilled you to keep that family unit together, like, hey, uh, what, what did your mom or dad call you, Antonio or is it Tony? Tony, Tony, Tony, we're having dinner at 6, be here or, you know, you're in trouble. Um, Everybody at the Fed dinner at 6 o'clock. Listen, man, uh, I think what we got in today's day and age is lost, and I feel bad for a lot of kids. I, I agree. Our dad was tough, right? He, he, he, he was, he, he was amazing, and I wish he was still around to see our success because essentially we owe it to him and my mom. Unfortunately, he's not, he's passed, but tough love works, man. Respect. Um, following through, having, having a word. If I tell you I'm gonna do something, I'll be damned, I'm gonna do it. Right, um, he taught us. Integrity, yeah, right, uh, since we were kids, respect, I mean, just a number of different things, work ethic, um, you know, he worked, he came to this country when he was 11 years old without his parents Cuba, from Cuba, yeah, he went to an orphanage. Um, you know, a couple years, I, I think several months or a year later, his dad came and at 16, his dad died here in this country. He was on his own. He struggled man. Uh, I met my mom in Chicago, and they moved over here and, and had a family, and, uh, like, like as Jason said, um, we owe all of our success to the foundation they created for us. Just I mean, we did it, but they created the foundation that enabled us to do that. Yeah, that's a great story, man. I love these stories because, you know, the tough love and the foundation, the platform that he created allowed you to be where you're at. Sure, yeah, yeah. What other kind of like integrity? I mean, what was an experience where you may have crossed the line and he said like, no, this is what we do, you're gonna go return the money or whatever that was. Um. I don't know. Um, I don't wanna think about that a little bit. I'm sure there's a couple of them, but probably some of them you won't want me to share here, but, but, but, but I gotta think a little bit about that, yeah. Um, but what else is like integrity, manners. I, I can tell also dress too, because you guys are dressed to the nines like the Kingsman dress. You look great, both of you guys, yeah, was dressed in there too? Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Manners maketh the man. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, um. Trying to think what, what I could, what I could tell you, um. You know, and, and, and when we were kids, right? Family members, everybody, they would tell us we were all kind of crazy cause all we did was work and he was tough on us. Yeah, and, and it's fascinating to see now, right? When we were kids, we thought it was a bit nuts, and now we think how right he really was in many, many, many things, and those people that often criticize and thought we were nuts. are not in such a good place right now, right? And, and, and, and their plan didn't quite work out as well as ours did. Now, again, not that, you know, we weren't fortunate, good health, and all kinds of other things, but It was just this gut, man, this, this. Urge to to succeed and be the best you can be at whatever it is you're gonna do. Right, if, if you're gonna pick up trash, you're gonna be the best trash collector there is. Right. That in today's day and age, like this, everybody gets a trophy bullshit. I'm out. If, if you suck, you need to know you suck. Go find a different sport, yeah, right? Hey, I, I'm not good at this. Let me go get somebody else to do this, right? Um, you know, that didn't exist when, when we were kids. Yeah. Um, so I mean, where, where did that come from, from him though, because he was abandoned and like by himself at 11:14, and well, he, he wasn't abandoned, he, he, he moved over, yeah, he moved over by himself and in the orphanage and then lost his dad. So, um, you guys had a great mentor role. Yes, but he didn't. Where did that come from? Yeah. I don't know, uh, and I, I, I, I, I, I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you this, um. If we would not be successful, and we don't, to me, speaking for myself, if I don't use that to the best of my ability, and I'm not successful, then I believe that I'm a failure because these people made these decisions and went through these struggles, and ultimately, I'm the benefactor of that, uh, not financially, but being here and what they taught and the foundation and being able to be born in the United States, and if I Don't take advantage of that, then I'm a failure. Yeah, so that's good decisions and gratefulness, good decisions and gratefulness. I just heard, yeah, sure. So another thing that we did, Tony just briefly mentioned, and, and, and I gotta mention, and I'm sure he'll say the same. The foundation and all of that was put there by our parents and, you know, uh, we, we can't say enough about that, um. When we went to see Dan Pena, that put lighter fluid on it. Yeah, you know, we had So much of the foundation in certain things, but, but seeing him and spending time with Dan put lighter fluid on top of that for both of us. Yeah, what, what attracted, I mean, there's a lot of coaches out there today that teach the acquisition entrepreneurship. What, what was it about Dan that attracted you? So, I'll give you a quick story, and I told him this when we sat with him. Um, I go see a guy. In Miami. No, we, we, Jason and I go see a guy, a, a, uh, Uh, motivational speaker guy in Miami, and we get back home. Don't know how, but I'm going through my phone and a video of Dan Pena comes up. We got back late. It's probably 12:30 at night. I'm laying in bed. I'm listening to the video. I was hooked out of the box. I just, I like, like real people. I cuss obviously, he cusses. I don't like people to sugarcoat stuff, right? And, and he does not. He, he, he, he's not looking for friends. You need a friend, by a dog. Um, I, I, I like that in people. Um, it was 3:30 in the morning. I was still listening to him. My wife's going, what is going on? Who is this guy? What is he talking about, right? So, so I called Jason. He goes, what happened? I'm telling him about it at 3:30 in the morning. And he's going, can't this wait till tomorrow? I'm like, no, man, we, this guy is amazing. This is like us and so I was overwhelmed by out of the box. It took us probably a year. To make the decision to fly over there and do it. It's not cheap, by the way, uh. And, and I think, and I told him this, in my opinion, to Jason's point, um, aside from our parents. It's probably running a close 2nd or close 1st to the most instrumental thing for us, cause he, he teaches you. And explains to you from someone who's done it, not someone who's read about it, or someone who was told how to do it. He did it. He tells you the stuff that most people don't. That does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, but what is it? Is it the mechanics of how it's done, or it's the the belief system that you can do it, that he's teaching you? Um, it's all of the above. It it's all of the above, because a lot of people think they can do it and believe they can do it, but they don't have the tools. Other people have the tools, but they don't think they can do it. So it's a mixture of putting all that together. And, and, and spending time with someone who's done it. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I have, I have my, I have uh boys, right? 11 years old. On the way to school, We listened to Dan Pena together. Right, and when we get to school. He says, Dad, turn that down cause these people might not understand what he's talking about. When you, when you open the door, right? So, uh, you know, I, I'm, I'm a big believer in that. I, I think, I, I'm very grateful to him. Uh, he's had us on as well, um, uh, as, as he has, as, as he's had Tom to speak to some of his new mentees. Um, but, but I'm, we're, we're thankful to him. Yeah, well, that's great, man. You guys are kicking ass, uh, and that is an hour gone by, so I thank you, Tony, and, uh, thank you, Jason. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Appreciate you having us. Thank you for having us. Yeah, good story, guys. Well dressed. Thank you so much. All right, take care. Take care.