E: 9 Top M&A Entrepreneurs - Sharon Brown. 9 Deals. 1st Acquisition SaaS Co. from Denmark

Well, welcome to, uh, the top M&A entrepreneurs. I have Sharon Brown with me today. I'm very happy to have her because, uh, I just listened to her on an epic call, and I understand she's, uh, first of all, welcome, Sharon. Thanks. Good to see you, John. So I don't know if you've anybody's been to uh Sharon's LinkedIn profile, but it is killer. I mean, from Stanford to NBA to whatever, you just gotta go visit Sharon's LinkedIn profile. It is awesome. And Stanford dropout. I'm happy to say. I was making too much money, not just go, yeah. So, uh where are you with this? How many you, I listened to you on the epic call and how many companies have you purchased? I've purchased. 88 technically 9 because one is just now, uh, so I think the call that you may have joined, I shared that journey a bit and uh and for me it it's just worked well, uh, in the sense of um. Of focusing on what matters, and that means, uh, even getting traffic assets. It's like something I would have never dreamed before. I, I, I was one of those people just building from the ground up everything that I got involved in, but my plays are in the sass space. Um, my background is in technology, and I gotta tell you it was a Uh, even though I once had a, um, a big in in the content space, uh, years ago, I I kind of abandoned that. It just wasn't something that interests me anymore and it just was a drain. But even investing in uh content assets as a play. Uh, as a roll up into all the other, other things, uh, so yeah, it's been, it's been a great journey. So when did you start acquiring companies? Is it before or after Epic? No, I didn't actually start acquiring um in the elite investor sense as I like to say, since uh uh connecting with Roland, and I know anything about Roland before, so it was really just this has been great. I've been an investor. And an angel investor in, in this, uh, I started that journey around 2012, but really 2014. So I have a, uh, an, uh, portfolio of companies, and they're all tech, and you can see it on my, on my, um, profile, Sharon Brown.co of the types of things and specific companies that I invest in. So I'm really proud of my angel portfolio, but that's not something I intended to do long term. And it was really, you know, my longer term play was to do the acquisitions, and it just accelerated it, you know, obviously with COVID I probably would have never found Roland and, you know, the, the rest is history. So, what's what? I was 2, 2, yeah that's. Yeah, yeah. What about you? Which where where are you again? Oh yeah, that's great. We're on 12, so it's insane, yeah, that's its rolling. Yeah. I love it because it really does expand the community and I'm, I'm not sure how uh your cohort has been or how you've connected with others. I know you've uh have been reaching out and that's the right way of doing it. I think staying connected with so many people and recognizing we're all part of the same. Family, the same group and and it's a, it's a great way of just um uh meeting new people but obviously potential collaborations but not even that, you know, people have reached out to me and uh and I feel comfortable reaching out to people with I have a specific question on a specific thing uh that I'm working on and need some assistance with. Obviously you want to respect people's time, but I think that's the the beauty of it and so I, I hope that um. Other people, you know, different cohorts are doing that. I, I agree. I mean, I reach out to people on LinkedIn and I connect to say, hey, I'm, uh, I see you're new to Epic or you're an Epic, and, uh, yeah, just I'm an Epic alumni and uh it's a great course. You know, starting work with the people, but be sure to ask questions early on in any of the meetings with Roland or anybody else, because people drag on and you will run out in an hour fast, trust me. That's so awesome. Well, I tell you, I started the virtual cocktail, uh, thing, uh, and you know. Sorry to blow up the, uh, evergreen portion of your podcast. But during, during COVID, uh, and, you know, I was in lockdown, I'm sure with like a lot of folks. It was just a great way, uh, every 3 weeks, 3 to 4 weeks, getting people what I call the virtual cocktail, uh, session and Just to connect and we do like small group breakouts and the whole idea is that anybody's welcome as long as you've been part of the epic community and some, so it's not just, you know, the beta group of cohort to, it's everyone's welcome and invited and that's been great because even the people from the later cohorts who've been joining. Uh, because it's once again, it's, it's about facilitating that, um, that community, and I think that, that, they, they vary, right? So the one thing you, you definitely wanna get that link, pal, um, uh, if you don't have it, yeah, definitely I will make sure you do that. I'll, I'll I'll put it in the video. Yeah, but let's, I'll do that. Absolutely I'll get you the, the, the proper links as anyone can uh connect on that. And it's, it's been wonderful because, um, for, for that reason, yeah. Yeah, so let's go back to some of your, let's go back to that first acquisition. Now, I know you did Angel Investments and, you know, in Silicon Valley, I follow Jason Calcanas and all those other guys, David Friedberg, and you, you just watch them and, but there are so many chances of this not taking off and sometimes the owners blow it up, whatever. There's a million ways to die in the west, and especially in startups. So. How did you just like, you first saw this first uh acquisition, you said I'm not gonna invest in it, but I'm gonna buy it. No, but was it 20%, 40%, 80%, or what did that look like? Yeah, so, uh, so for my first acquisition, uh, everything has been 100%, and that's part of that has been, that's been very strategic, and part of the reason for that is because really I've been setting up what I call the, the infrastructure for my company and making sure we can move things, uh, you know, have the flow of of how things need to get done. Uh, and then I'm absolutely looking for partners, uh, as I, as I expand and, and do other types of acquisitions. So yeah, so for me, it, I really did follow that blueprint from the challenge. So remember that that 5 day challenge for everyone, um, who knows, you know, that 5 days, I took it very seriously. So even though I didn't, I literally didn't find out about it until like the day before, and I was like, OK, oh well, whatever, you know, it's just a few bucks, let's do it. And just went all in, attended everything live, and uh if you, you're really paying attention to what Roland is uh communicating regarding, um, just even deal flow. OK, you need 100 leads and eventually that will boil down to where you should end up with maybe 2 to 3 uh options so. I went out and and really dug into that and said, OK, where do I start with this? You know, so going back to LinkedIn, where did you start? Now that LinkedIn is a limit on 100 connections, like, Yeah, I gotta tell you, so I started with my network. I have over the years just through speaking engagements and different things have happened pretty, you know, I my LinkedIn. I used to really really was people I knew. And now since uh uh uh elite um epic, I've actually, you know, connect with anybody for the most part within reason. So, uh, so I went to my, my network and just to, you know, mind that and see what was possible, and it was just painful because the, you know, once again just about developing deal flow and seeing what was the right process to do that. And then, um, part of that was hiring someone on my team who actually had the responsibility to do the reach out. So now we're automating. This is back to my whole, you know, how I, how strongly I feel about integration, uh, and, and really integrating that into, um, you know, how we're gonna do things. And so, Thinking about what my criteria were in terms of what I wanted to invest in, and that was tough because I have a number of different areas, but, you know, really getting that list of hiring someone, put together a list, scrubbing that list, and then we did that whole connection. In terms of reaching out her, her responsibilities to reach out on LinkedIn for people, so you're right. So even though you only have, for example, 100 people and you don't wanna, you don't wanna abuse their community because the worst thing is if you get locked out, then you're locked out. And so, so that's no worries. No one says you have to upload, you know, 2000, 1000 connections at, um, at once. So, part of her responsibility, it was, uh, you know, reaching out on a daily basis. So, obviously, it was 100 at a time. And it was amazing the responses, um, I was getting. So then that started that entire process from reaching out, scheduling the calls, uh, those initial, uh, meet up. And then I would have those conversations and they it's really been wonderful because I was doing probably in the early stages, probably somewhere up to about 7 or 9. A week, uh, and then it start ramping up a little bit and then and there, there you have it. And part of that was just mining, um, mining the list if you will, and this is very helpful because I heard Adam say this that one of the biggest challenges that everybody epic is the getting the pipeline, starting the pipeline, doing the pipeline, just getting 100 calls in there is just like. You know, my son asked me, how do I get better at basketball? Well, get out there and shoot. Exactly. Yeah, I gotta tell you, and you know the thing about it, John, uh. So what I have found is that there are quite a few people who are, who might be struggling with that same issue, cause it's real, it was real for me uh and and I guess unless you maybe come from a strong, a solid sales specific background, and you have all that set up and you know, for me, no, not so much, you know, even though I've uh been involved quite a few big engagements in my day, but not this sort of rigor of what we you do need to have set up in order to to do it at. Scale. So what I have heard and found is that there are people who are, who, who are, maybe they're like, Oh, I've reached out to 5 people or a couple people. That's not gonna get it done. So they're, they're holding on to, um, you know, a very small pond. And, but I always say this and then I say kind of, um, tongue in cheek, but it's true. Either you believe. You know, what Roland has shared in terms of, right? What those numbers look like, what the metrics look like to get the deal flow or you don't. And so you think about that whole idea of once again where you limit yourself unintentionally. And I understand you might be really close. You might feel like you're really close to a deal, but that leads to that whole concept if you remember he's shared before. I think it's hilarious because it's true deal he. You hold on to something so, so much cause you're just so sure it's gonna close or you're and then it just keeps dragging and dragging and dragging on. There's nothing wrong with that. But why not open that up? You know, open it up. So that's exactly what I did. Just open it up and, um, see what happens, see what lands. And, and so let me just share something else. I think it's not spoken about enough, and I think it's very useful. So I opened it up because I had to get my playbook down in the sense of I was still, you know, everything down to, you know, what kind of, how did I want these calls to go, what kind of, you know, communication, what kind of things that I want to ask for. So you wanna do not throw away calls, but, you know, really recognizing that you, you've got to. To write your own script, and I don't mean literal script, but I mean, really understand what that process looks like. So having those even those initial calls, even though it might not be a deal that you're super passionate about, has been is can be meaningful, and in those early stages, I uncovered some fantastic information, just one surprising great relationships with people, which is wonderful. So even though I knew there's potential on a deal there. Uh, after speaking with them, but then also learned some things even about tools or resources or different things like that that maybe I hadn't thought about, or it might be a great place for something else or someone else in the epic community. So that deal is not right for me. Oh, but I know John is looking for this. Let me, and so I've even done that and and and have uh connected people with um deals that, you know, that might be better for them. Yeah, there's a lot to be said for it. Yeah, you ever, do you ever read that book called Give and Take where that guy they talk about the guy goes like, you know, if I can't help you, I'll spend 5 minutes with you to, to free somebody else, and they say he's the most connected guy on LinkedIn or in Silicon Valley. Nice. No, I got, I've got, yeah, but I'd love to know what that is. Yeah. What's it's in the book Give and Take. Give and Take. OK. I will, I will give that a go. That's, yeah, I love that. I love that philosophy and um. My point is, why not, you know, while you're trying to build your, your infrastructure, build the pipes, as I say, um, part of it is going to be the journey of, of learning what makes sense for you and your company, your investor profile and all those things and so yeah, reach out to people and you will be surprised. I have been. I gotta tell you, I've been really surprised how conversational and easy the conversations have all been. Um, and I don't use a script. I, you know, just like, almost like you and I are, are, you know, we're speaking now. I keep it very conversational, very easy, and, and I know in a relatively, you know, after a few minutes, maybe 15 minutes or so, whether it is in. An opportunity or not, but even if there's not an opportunity, made a great connection and once again you never know if there's someone within, uh, my investor community who uh might be a great match down the road your experience with investing in startups helps you kind of have that conversation and. You know, that's figuring out where they are financially or, you know, mindset, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great, uh, I don't, you know, and I, I'm not sure, John. I have thought about that too. It didn't come easy for me. I had to think about it. And because why? you're not going to do a deep dive on someone. Who you who you're just getting in the call with. So I had to frame my brain of, that's not the first call, right? What does the first call need to be? First call needs to be around the relationship. The first call needs to be understanding their journey a bit, but not letting it get sucked into the weeds, cause, you know, people will open up the kimono a little bit if you've built a relationship and you're like, hold on, too much, too fast. So meaning, you know, I, I wanna know if there's um uh if there's an opportunity, and then. Then I go into what I'm potentially looking for, and I'm I'm also very Crystal clear with that before setting up before setting up the call. Oh, how's that look like? What or how's that sound? I mean, is it a Zoom call? No, I do, and this is interesting, um, uh. This is probably outside of the playbook. I've created my own you know it's OK because Dale and say, no, it's it. He does it this way. I do it. I gotta tell you I don't, I don't even do a Zoom a Zoom video. I, I do Zoom audio.io. OK. Ask me, ask me why, because I'll go right into it, um. I want to listen. I don't want the distractions. I don't want them to be distracted. I don't want to be distracted, and it's just it, what I have found, it's about. Lower barrier. Right? This is just Sharon. We're just having a chat. We're friends, we're, you know, we're not friends, but we're just having a chat and I wanna see how I can help you, how we can help each other, and if there's opportunity. So my, my, and this is um part of, you know, maybe there's different things I've done over the years in terms of, um, you know, presenting and speaking, um, you, you know, real world, you do want all senses involved, right? You want the the visual no, but in that first, um, meet. The one thing you recognizing there's a level of anxiety for the person with whom you're speaking, unless you're you're talking about a big player, right? You know, maybe they've they're, it's not a big deal for them, they've they've done, but for the most part, um, so why not build that first conversation and, and take away one of those points of, um, you know, anxiety and just have the conversation, and it's more importantly than what's that follow up look like, and then of course then that's about, you know. Getting, getting together, meet and greeting and then moving forward from there. And you're very clear at the first call what you're looking for. Oh yeah, and even before, so, uh, because I think this is the thing, one, you want to be crystal clear that you're not handing out money. Because why? that's that realistically is a, you know, what, what people are might be thinking, Oh, you're, you know, they see investor and like, oh, great. Um, I don't know how many, about you, but I get a ton of, um, of queries like that a day. And it's just, you know, so you really want to level some expectations. But quite frankly, I don't want to waste my time, and nor do I want to waste someone else's time. So I really communicate in terms of, you know, what my Um, what I'm interested in, and, and as a growth equity investor, and, and getting into it like that. But really the conversation is more about them, uh, as well in terms of understanding where they are now and what are some of the, the challenges, and then more importantly, what are they looking for? And then, right, and then right from there, this is one thing I, I'm not sure, at least from some of the a few of the people I've spoken with in Epic. One of the things that I do that might be different, I go right into um that next step is. Sending, sending the, you know, sending the financials. That next step is, you know, um, obviously if there's a, if there's a um an NDA, so, so, but you'll oftentimes you'll find it even in that first call. I've gotten some pretty useful information and even numbers to know if there's an opportunity there and then that next step is if they so now I know if they're serious, right? Because did they now uh we send them a link in terms of where to upload certain things, uh, they uploaded that the financials. Great. You know, I know we're serious. Was there a level of follow up that we had to do, you know, just in terms of why, but I let those things sit, uh, and I think that that's part of, um, you know, back to, I think a very useful thing that Roland shared. Sometimes a deal, it'll come back. So maybe someone, you know, may, may have gotten cold feet or whatever, and it'll come back, uh, it'll come back or there's a way of reaching out down the road as well. Yeah. So what, what kind of questions are you asking them that Are opens up to say, hey, this is potential I could help to, I could probably acquire the company, help them out. What, what does, what does that look like? Yeah, and it, it really does vary, and I think the short answer is it comes down to um How are things currently, like, understanding how are things currently working for them, what's working for them? Uh, so I get into numbers, and that's that first conversation, I have gotten I think maybe one person was like, oh, you know, I'd really like to have an in to discuss it. That's fine, but I, I get right into it. So what did you do in revenue last year? Um, where are some of the areas, you know, we talk. You know, they understand they're coming to this call because I'm an investor looking to ask questions. I ask serious questions, and I have, um, and that probably comes from, you know, me doing really big deals in, in, in my corporate life and even my own company, um. Uh, uh, in the past that I think one of the things sort of that straight conversation leads to straight understanding and so, uh, but also if you build the rapport back to building the rapport, there should be no problem with that, right? No problem with that, uh, opening that up. And then also as an investor, you should have no problem if someone says, oh, you know, I'd really like to uh have an NDA that's fine too, right? But there's no nothing wrong with me asking. So I, my, my, my, so that's my, been my playbook. I ask in that initial call. And then once again, then that leads to, and then we're really talking about, um, we're talking about, um, uh, it depends, depends on the type of player, right? But we're really talking about what are they dealing with right now? That's the, the, the pain point. And then part of that then is, OK, great. Let me share with you some of the things that I uh that would really help get it to the next level. So let's set up a, you know, way for us to connect together, and this is what I need. Yeah. And, and I don't get to a whole laundry list of things that here I'm gonna need this and this and this like a playbook here, do this and this and this and you'll be a 10 $10 million company. Oh no, no, and actually let me just clarify. I don't even do that. And when I say when I, I, so from the point of I'll share a little bit around, OK, I see that you are having um. You know, a manufacturing issue or I could see that you're, you're having a growth issue with X, Y, and Z. uh, so maybe we'll talk a little bit about that and maybe I'll provide some perspective, but I'm instantly then getting into, OK, great. I do see there's a way of working together. These are. Things that I'm gonna need in terms of the financials. Uh, so I'll take a look at that and, and then we'll get on a call together and we'll talk, you know, we'll, then I give him sort of the next steps. So I just specify, uh, in a general sense, here's some of the financials that I'm gonna need, and what I'll do is I'll send you, we'll send you, you know, a list of the things, and, and here's a link and where you can upload them. Yeah, yeah, let's go back to that, that first deal. I have to ask you this. Do you have any incentive to feel like you could try to close a deal shorter period of time, like, you know, hey, I wanna. You know, Tiny Capital is a cool little model that they got over there. Tiny Capital.com, you know? And he goes, Hey, we closed deals in 30 days. You know, Warren Buffet and do it in a week. We're like, Wow, yeah. And do you guys, do you have any incentive to try to close a deal faster? Is it just, hey, there's no real, that's an arbitrary timeline. That's a great question. Um, Because some of us like me, like sales guy has always been done numbers like, you know what, I need to get this by the end of the month. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I feel, I gotta tell you, so initially, uh, absolutely. I wanted to close a deal like yesterday and I, I, I was, you know, I was very serious, very deliberate in the sense of, once again, even from the challenge trying to get it, get something. So I realized I was putting almost too many layers. And so I was like, come on, let's come on. So let's just close the dag on deal, right? And, and, and then I, I think we've all said that, yeah, but I, but it's so true. I mean, are you, and this is a question for, for everybody, are you putting Way too much in. Vacillating and going all through all these decision models to decide what you should do and when. I've spoken to some members who Man, they just keep ping ponging back and forth and just do something. And I'm like, just do something. Make it so it's like pulling like, hey, comment down below if you put too many layers into this process. The answer is yes, exactly, exactly. So, uh, my point around that is in terms of my background, um, and even how I think about things in terms of, um, you know, being a certified business analyst and thinking about making sure systems are in place. At some point, you, you have to move, keep moving the ball forward, right? So I didn't look to have, when I said I was trying to put the infrastructure and the pipes in place, I didn't wasn't looking at everything in place to move forward, and I even used um. Uh, Peter, uh, at some point as well, we were part of the initial group, uh, that, that, that offer was for a pipeline just to gauge how things were done on that end and to see if there was anything that we could add to what we were already doing. So my point is just whatever the lowest bar to entry is, take that, and then Then add to it, evolve it for the next deal, and then the next deal and the next deal. So to answer your question, absolutely, I was driven to get a deal done soon, and I recognized early on where I was putting way too many, way too much pressure on, you know, yourself, all right, yourself, right? Absolutely, and having things done in a certain way that I'd like them to be done. Uh, so I think getting it done, and now to ask for in terms of deals, or even for the next few deals, let me just say that, um, there has been, depending upon the opportunity, John, absolutely, I can sense, I get a sense from uh speaking with someone and you can really get it in terms of communicating. Uh, do I need to be putting pressure points in a certain way because I do want to close this faster. Like there was one deal, um, I, I had a, a contact on a Friday, and it was late night, it was, it was really last minute, all of us, uh, very sudden, and I'm last minute like literally we're in a, we're in a, we're in a chat. Talking, uh, and the deal was evolving before my eyes. I was like, oh my goodness, I like who planned on this? And I closed that deal that Sunday, and part of me wanting to close the deal is because He recognized that wow, I hadn't thought about really selling, but wow, this is a great opportunity. And then part of it was, now is he thinking, oh boy, I could probably do well by putting opening this up to other investors. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, right? So, so yes, you want to gauge whether. Uh, it makes sense to just do what you need to do to close it and close it quickly. So, and then interestingly enough, uh, uh, it was a traffic asset, um. There was another traffic asset that I had reached out to around the same time, cause I was surprised at how quickly I closed that and that next Friday I closed another one, and it was almost the same type of same same type of thing, same reason behind it. So you do want to pay attention to that, I think. Um, I have one, a part of my outreach is one company, it's a very um. They they they're pretty big player in terms of who they partner with, uh, and so the owner recognizes the value that I can bring, and he wants, he doesn't want to to build a relationship and he's interested more into my adviser role than money, which is check. But my goodness, he is so prime for getting um exactly that from a number of different Investor, advisors, uh, and probably even PE. So that would be one. Um, if it's right, I'm going, I would look to. Put the heels down a little bit more to to to get that deal closed sooner rather than later. There are other deals that I'm working on, uh, you know, I'm not to say I don't care, but meaning. We have so much going on right now in terms of integration, integration, integration, and on these, some of them happen, like I said, much faster than I would imagine, but it's not just getting a deal if you're not deploying it and optimizing and doing all the things you need to do sooner rather than later, it's just almost like have money set on the shelf, the way I look at it. So, um there are other deals that I'm not pressed at all and um I wanna, I'm, I'm glad because I'm at that place right now where I don't feel like. Oh gosh, I gotta get another deal right now cause I have so much going on right now. Yeah, yeah. So sounds like this master plans coming out. I love it when a plan comes together. I love it when a plan, but the plan doesn't come without without pain, right? Yeah, nobody ever said that. So back to this, how this, this first acquisition was it a software company or so it's curious, uh, a lot of people, uh, sometimes are stuck on, well, you have this master plan and I need this platform company in the middle here, but sometimes. You know, you gotta think outside the box and go for the outside and the carts and the uh spoken wheel parts of it. Yeah, I gotta tell you, that's that that I am 100% on board with. So this one was uh software, but more importantly, I, I love. Not just the play in the nutrition space which with which it's in, but also I'm going to be able to use that back end for what I have going on in in in the dog space. Uh, and so that's wonderful, but you're spot on. There are other um investments that I've done that it's just around here somewhere. And so it's about, wow, I see the beauty of where it can fit in. Down the road or I see what the beauty of where it can fit in uh to another. Uh, another particular opportunity. A great example of of that is what I'm doing in the gaming space, uh, and I, I, you know, something that I just love, and there's certain certain properties even that I'm, I'm looking at or have acquired that man, you can really see how it can open up to other things as well. Interesting. So, let's go back to that first deal again. 100%, right? Yes, yeah, and it was a software company. So what did that, what kind of structure, price terms was that? Are you bringing money into it or is it 100% earn in kind of deal? No, it was 100% of it was 100% and off the table I was able to do sort of a DDP. Uh, but it was, it was such an easy deal and quite frankly, he, it was what I've been looking for, and I think that's been working for me is going for what I undervalued, quite frankly, assets, and that's exactly what this what this was. So, uh, yeah, could have sold it for a heck of a lot more, but Um, I offered him, I think, a pretty fair deal because he did, quite frankly, at this point he's just burning cash and not really didn't doesn't quite know, didn't know how to. Tap into the value of of the asset. Yeah, was it was it profitable or unprofitable when you said burning cash? Well, burning cash for him not as profitable as it as it could be. Yeah, yeah. I mean, easily. And there's some of that which you'll find, I, I think for me works well. I've purposely, and I had this conversation with another, um, Epic member, a couple of EPIC members actually in the virtual cocktails that I've purposely, uh, been very strategic and going, and not going for the $100 million dollar deals right now. Yeah, it was about going for these undervalued, uh, but easily places where I can instantly sort of plug and play and and um and and go to scale. And while I'm once again getting the infrastructure in place. And we are just about um. There in terms of everything that I think I would need and want in terms of having back office and all those things to be able to just, you know, it's not gonna be a flick of a switch, but you get my point, um, in many ways, some, you know, getting a $100 million dollar deal can be easier than a smaller deal, uh. Uh, in my experience, and, you know, with we're working in, uh, other types of companies, but yeah, you still want to make sure you're ready and, and have everything in play that you need in order to make those. So this is interesting. If you sat on the other side, you were the seller, and you said, OK, I have somebody, a buyer wants to buy my company, but I'm not gonna take any money off the table. But they're gonna increase my, you know, my earnings, and I'm gonna make a lot more money because, you know, I'm at my skill level limit right now. It's kind of gonna be a deferred down payment. So do you present some kind of master plan to this to them, to what it's gonna look like for them? I think, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna, uh, this, you're gonna be the platform company, we're gonna do this, this and this and this, your cost of acquisition is gonna go down, your access to millions and millions more customers and, you know, end of the day, 23 years from now, you're gonna make a lot more money than you would by yourself. Um, well, so let me just speak, so with my deals, I haven't had, I haven't had to worry about that if you will. So when I say DDP I'm talking about like 60 days. Like, you know, I'm not doing like a, a year and a half or anything like that, so I've had, I don't have to have those conversations of telling them my strategy. Yeah, so 60 days you're they're out. Oh yeah. Oh, I'm 100%. Everything I have I've acquired, I own 100%. Oh, that's interesting. OK. Yeah, and um. And that's worked, you know, that's worked really well for me, and I'm looking forward to like there's a couple of epic memories where we're gonna look to do some deals together, uh, where you have more. People that can really support the deal, if you will, in terms of um of advisor support. So yeah, yeah, exactly. So that my point around in sharing that is that's where I absolutely will be going into the playbook even more the epic playbook on the different structures and different ways of ways of structuring a deal. So on that seller, what, what is their motivation for moving out? Now if you go through Epic, there's 10 reasons, 12 reasons, whatever that is, they're trying to move out. What, what, what are you looking for? For, so what is the seller looking for you? Yeah, what's their motivation? So for instance, uh, I partnered up with, uh, another epic member, Sorie, and we're looking at an IT company, and they want to take money off the table because he's got another opportunity, could be a billion dollar opportunity. I don't know that case, but he wants to take money off the table to apply it to that. Yes, yeah, so the the with that first deal, his was simply like, this is painful. Oh, this is painful, OK. I have built this great thing, uh, and it's, it's well received. I just can't get it to the next level, and I went out to use the money for another company, and I, you know, part of due diligence, I did see that he does have another company that um in the furniture space of all of all things, and so great. Um, and then I'm finding that the rationale for, for that's stated for a lot because I think they're stated and unstated reasons for getting out, uh, yeah, you know, yeah, and so the rationale, what I'm finding typically is because I have another opportunity, because I have another business that I want to pour my own. So how much do you gauge, you know, the You know, the truthfulness of, of that, right? Someone's gonna tell you, so you have to, you know, you just have to, to pee peek under the hood a little bit and see what you can find, uh, but honestly, I don't care why you're getting out as long as I, as long as I see it's a great deal, and once again it's there's some undervalued uh assets that I can, I can, you know, turn around. You know, this deferred down payment, did you come up with a strategy to, uh, you know, apply some marketing, the 4 day cash machine, something like that, and then to pay for that? Yeah, so great question. So this is the thing, I have, um, uh, been fortunate enough to tap into my, I guess, you know, experience with, I've been leveraging sponsorships like crazy sponsorships. So that has been like, um. We acquired a um a dog asset and So I had 30 days to essentially um turn it around, and I was able to get a sponsorship, two sponsorships within like a week and a half. And it's been amazing. One of the sponsorships, for example, was Motorola for a doll company. So Motorola for a dog. Yeah, I don't think I ever would have saw that. You wouldn't have saw that, right? So my point is, for me, how I'm looking at a lot of this stuff is. How, how quickly, even, even ones that I had to put money out up front and then maybe it's a small amount, how soon am I gonna do I want to get that money back? I wanna get back like yesterday. So I'm actively looking and making sure I'm thinking through where is the money gonna come from. I'm not looking for, you know. The drip, drip drip or uh to to be able to to to recover or anything like that. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, absolutely. And so that's been the goal of of everything so far. And part of this is is if you are getting a senses me really getting the strategy down. So when I do the big, you know, $100 million deal, if you will, then I know exactly how quickly we can move as a company, how quickly, what are the things, um, I can tap into, where there are. So that's been the most unique part, like I said, even going back to my content days, who would have I would have never dreamt that in a million years, but it's amazing what companies will pay even for content. Um, it's amazing, you know, all the, who would have thought that. If you have um a sizable Instagram following, for example, um, as a traffic asset that there are companies that want to pay a lot of money to tap into your audience. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, I worked with a company that was making a tea, uh, tea, and they hired, uh, Courtney, one of the Kardashians. Oh, OK, yeah, yeah, $300,000 a post. Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. Now, none of us are trying to do, we're not gonna do that. That's a sponsorship. You're not trying to be an influencer, right? If you're really a legitimately running a company, how do you, how do you maximize that? So for me, it's about the brand. Sponsorships, the brand relationships, and then I had that relationship with Motorola. No, not at all. So how did this, how did that idea come about? Yeah, it's so funny. So one of the, the secret sauces for me is I, and in terms of why I've, I even thought to do that. I used to, uh, I I once had a very successful luxury skincare company, and we were in the Four Seasons and the Bellagio Hotels and, and one of the first things that I did in terms of um even like brand partnerships, believe it or not was with American Express. And that helped catapult the brand and how I did that, I've, I tapped into that blueprint the same now, which was simply Emailing, calling someone up, and you would be surprised, shocked, and amazed at how well received sometimes what you, what you, um, pitch can can be. Uh, so that's literally what I, what we've been doing and now that we're really just gonna scale a lot of that because it is um low hanging fruit and that's part of You know, a lot of the things that I have to look to do in terms of low hanging fruit, because there's some real technical things, uh, in terms of the, the companies that I'm looking to uh put into place that will even, you know, generate even more revenue. I I, I've done 9 of these and you are keyed into that more than all the others at this point, or either that or I didn't ask him, but you're doing it the best. We'll see. I didn't hear it in any of the questions I asked, so you're doing the best. Oh yeah, well, thank you. It's been, um, it's been a great journey, part of it. I gotta be honest with you. And if you've maybe heard my um maybe the last epic uh training I did, and I'm very honest and like I didn't have this as a share, you know, if you remember that uh I didn't have this in place, I had this in place. I didn't have this, this and this in place, and this is what we're doing to get try to get these things in place. Everything from all the way from deal flow, all the way through the acquisitions, you know, so once you get an acquisition, then what, right? And that's, that's all of those things I think you want to consider, but just don't overthink it. So how did you feel after that first acquisition? I mean, what were your, like, I'm elated or like, oh, now what do I do? Or what? No, no, no, for me, it was just like, oh man, that was, that was easier than I thought. And I gotta be honest with you. So you made it harder than you thought it was, yeah. Yeah, let me tell you why. And this goes back to um. Man, it's just so real. I, John, I only, I, I absolutely swore to. Even from the challenge, oh, I'm definitely not doing anything, um, unless it's US based. My only acquisition is gonna be US based because it's just easier, right? I, you know, everything about it would be easier. So, I was shocked and amazed. That my first acquisition was a company in Denmark. Really, yes, and so that's what I said, really. Yeah, and so first acquisition is in Denmark. That is interesting. Yeah, and it's so, it's so funny because back to now and then you're gonna see me write stuff. This is what I put down first acquisition, Denmark. Yeah, it's so crazy too because um I, so back to your point of your question of well how did I feel? I felt like Oh, you know, you figure out what the S is, like, OK, this this was easier than I thought, and I didn't plan on this. And so the funny thing about it is like even funny why I kind of laugh with people um who are part of the the the team that like there's still like localization issues like some of the things clearly in Denmark language like transferring payment systems and so that was pretty funny. Uh, but where's most of their customers? Is it United States? Yeah, United States, yeah, OK, there you go, yeah, and so, so, yeah, so, but to the point of not limiting yourself, it's not may not be as painful as you think it's gonna be kind of thing, cause obviously I thought it would be painful to do something outside the US US for the first deal. And then recognize that listen, you know what you know, right? So whatever your your sweet spot is, whatever your thing is that you can do, do that. 0, 100, 0 please, you'd be, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Americans were probably the ones that are limited in that. Well, it's, I mean, it's like, uh, I, I used to live in Europe with my dad when my dad was in the Air Force, so maybe every tiny little state in Europe, the next ones. in a different language. It's like going to Arizona and they speak different language in New Mexico and California. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it's been, that's been exactly the unique nature of um what I would have never opened myself up to this. Early, like I said, this is part of my like 5 year plan, but just got accelerated because of COVID. You're on your 9th in your 5 year plan. Are you ahead or what? You're ahead of the plan? Yeah. You know, that's so funny. I honestly don't have a, I don't have a number like that. Uh, uh, I never thought of it that way. And the and I think, I think the number is almost not relevant, um, and I'm not, I, I don't know about you, but I'm not impressed that people like, oh, I made 2. Because whatever, you know, so my point is, yes, I have some that are sass, I have some that are um pure traffic. It's like I would have never thought to do that as a way of generating um. You know, bolstering a sass play, or, you know, I would have once again, I would have never thought in a million years I would have gone back to content, a content play and how that's been um great in terms of once again here. Oh yeah, everything. Oh yeah. I was like, are you gonna go to Denmark and or uh any of these other countries and visit? No, there's no need for, uh, just for fun, but there's no need to because uh everything once again, uh, that's, and that's a key thing as well for, for me, um, back to the whole integration piece. You've got to be rigorous and how quickly you um integrate and getting things. Online, in play, in whatever country, so that you're, you don't miss a beat with revenue, right? That's partner relationships and whatever things need to happen behind the scenes, and that's all part of it. Uh, you literally will lose money, um, you know, with just a hiccup of of it. That was your last epic call, was talking about. Yeah, exactly. And you're, you're, it's almost stunning to see where, where the areas where it can happen, um, where you can just have something that gets mixed or doesn't get transitioned over fast enough, and then you've just lost how many days of revenue. Like, yeah. So are you working above the business where there somebody is taking over it and sending, you know, hey, don't come to me unless there's problems or, you know, you're gonna send your monthly numbers or send it working in it and saying. I let me tell you this has been my The godsend um uh statement from from uh Roland that I've gotten working above the business. That's just something I've never heard that. Isn't it amazing? It opens your mind in a whole different way like dog on it. Yeah, what are you doing? I like I yeah, yeah. So let me share with you everything I do, all the decisions, all the planning, everything is geared toward me working above the business. Stop. Uh, and so I'm judging my success on how close I am to being there. So I'm thrilled that back to the infrastructure and the pipes, I have, um, you know, 10% improvement in that area, right? There's some parts that I still have to be involved in because once again, new acquisitions have just come in and have, but ultimately the goal is I'm 100% going to have that person where, you know, that I have in play, who's going to take care of all of that, but part of it is me working out the work flow right now to make that happen. I've gotten to a place, for example, where I have like a team member that handles like even back to the deal flow piece that I shared with you, that's someone that handles all of that. So are your team members now or they're acting kind of like CEOs or presidents of the company or? No, no, cause I don't, I, I, for me, it's staying flat is good and we're not nearly that big level, if you will, that that deem that necessary, but for me it's just about the right tool for the job, you know, I don't, you know, whoever that person is, can they implement. What you need to do, when you need them to do it, and that's gonna make a measurable difference. And, you know, growth, so, so as long as I can be clear and specific on what needs to get done, uh, what the bigger plan is, and it's their job to, to know how to do it and, and implement that. And I'm really, and one of the things that we're big on is, um, I have a saying, just don't be a bottleneck. That's saying, don't be the bottleneck. And even for me, like, if there's something like I know I am the bottleneck. Oh, you know, because why? If you've communicated what that full vision and the plan is, and, and even if let's just deal with like a a specific day. And you know you have to get something out for Out the door. What are the things that need to transpire? In order to get it out the door. Is everybody clear on that? Who's doing what and how. And so you automatically know when there's a bottleneck, and who's the bottleneck. Don't be that person. Does something need to be signed off on? Does something needs to be approved? Does, does, you know, is there something with the monetization that's gonna get delayed because, you know, Sharon, Sally, or Joe didn't do X, Y, and Z. So that's kind of the, the big, the big thing that the people that work for you, are the W-2s or independent contractors? Well, so, funny enough, uh, 2020 November. I have. Let go of my last um Employee Uh, W-2 employee. Uh, so we were set up for the work we did in um uh our big integration companies. My company just wasn't set up in the way I needed to be set up now. So now my, my um employees full time, you know, a couple of full-time employees, uh, but for the most part I have people that I call team members who were 1099 who are, you know, even virtual, you know, spread out, uh, everyone's virtual now but spread out across the world because it's about finding the right people to do this one thing. Or these two things, these 3 things that that need to be done, and all of that's part of the team. So I've just changed the model and it and it's the right thing, it was the right thing to do cause it's work work working really well, and that's everything from Who's handling, um, you know, different things on tech, who's handling certain things on deal flow, who's handling, um. Um, you know, uh, sponsor outreach or, or, you know, social media, you know, things like that, just having the right person to do different different roles. Yeah, I, the reason I'm bringing that up, uh, cause there's a, there's a guy on Silicon Valley, Jamo, he's a Facebook billionaire. He threw out the idea that he sees the possibility what everybody is an independent contractor and it's all. Yeah. I don't know if that's gonna work for all companies, like let's say uh a GM or something, but everybody is an independent contractor. Yeah, I gotta tell you, it's um You'd be surprised and maybe that even some of the biggest companies, you know, definitely work that model as well. One of my Bigger clients who once again we just sort of ended that relationship in in 2020 where my employee was there, you know, that his, uh, I was hands off like that was his role to handle everything that needs to be handled there, and their entire model was just using consultants. You know, for, for this major part of the business, and we're talking about a really big European bank. And so, um, so for me it's easy because for, for decades, I have worked this way and lived this way, and, and, and now it's just about now using this sort of epic investing or as an investor. I just had to think differently in terms of who are the right people I need to do what. Yeah, I don't want to buy a job and make sure the process right, exactly. And then also, quite frankly, you know, to me it didn't make sense to hire, um, a bunch of full-time, you know, W-2 folks while you're, you know, trying to Put the pipes in for what does that what does really back office Sharon, I've already almost taken an hour of your time. It's delightful, but I, I have to ask you, so where are you headed now? What do you kind of companies do you look for? So a lot of times what happens is, you know, they'll people will see this video and your people are gonna reach out to you and goes like, hey, I have this deal, or you want to work together and Yeah, yes, I think you'll say yes it's it's the right deal, sure, and especially uh for integrated growth, I'm pretty broad in terms of the types of industries, but um I pretty much am keeping my Sharon Brown.co profile um up to date in terms of the things that I'm investing the industries, but everything pets and nutrition and everything, you know, it's of course sass related, uh, uh, by the way, Terry Williamson is doing a deal with Roland Fraser for dog stuff. Did you know that? Did not know that. Very cool to know. Yeah, they might be doing the whole thing like the platform, the Amazon business, the content purchases, so keep your eye out for that. I love it and it's so funny, you know, it, I'm sure it wasn't the only one to think of that of how explosion of um my dog during COVID. I mean, there were so many, for crying out loud, shelters got wiped out, you know, for people when. a pet. So, and, and, and weights. Have you ever tried to buy a weight? This is, this is like trying to buy weights right now at any store, Big 5, Walmart, anywhere, you cannot buy a weight. You don't want to buy a weight on Amazon because it's $100 to ship it. You're right, right, right. Not a good look. That's, that's funny. That's funny. Yeah, there's certain things, right? It's shifted a lot in terms of how we live and think just from, uh, what's happened over the past year. So, um, yeah, I gotta wrap up because I'm taking you all your time. I want to thank Sharon Brown, uh, you can find her on Epic, and, uh, she's gonna share with me her, uh, virtual, yeah, her, her virtual meetings that she's gonna be doing them at some point, so. I'll put this in the uh description. Brilliant. OK, sounds like a plan. Sure, thank you so much for this. This has been the delight. Absolutely, such a pleasure, John, my friend. Look forward to seeing you at the next virtual cocktails. We'll do it. All right, take care. Bye.